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General Dakota Board
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Jennifer
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2004
15:54:00
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 Subject: Trans Fluid Type
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I had the transmission replaced about a year ago. I needed to add some fluid and called the mechanic to ask him which type. He said he filled it with Dexron II. Now I've been reading that you can only use ATF 3!!! Any problem with having dexron in my transmission. Cost me $2000 and I don't want to do it again.
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well
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2004
17:17:46
|  RE: Trans Fluid Type
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what year motor and trans is it? 3.9 4.7 5.9?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
 
8/31/2004
17:41:44
|  Amsoil ATF www.american-synthetic-oil.com Amzoil
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A Good ATF Thread on this site & Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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cutandpaste
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2004
18:16:06
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
Use Atf+4.All vehicles that called for ATF+3 are now being serviced with ATF+4. ATF+4 is Superior to ATF+3 and it is backwords compatible with ATF+3. It is also to be used in the power steering system in place of previous approved power steering fluid the first time the system needs to be serviced. Look through the TSB's at alldata and you will see one that mentioned transmission fluid usage that is the one that covers the switch from ATF+3 to ATF+4.The only expection really were vehicles that used ATF+4R and a few 80's era vehicles that used ATF+2 I think. ATF+4 is backwards compatible and will not harm the old fluids at all. The only reason to flush and refill in either case is to maximize the performance of the new fluid by not diluting it with old oxidized lower grade product
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/31/2004
23:27:45
| Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed - Amzoil
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FYI (and read between the lines as to how D/C unfairly treats its customers)
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
ILMA: DaimlerChrysler Unfair to Independents
Reported in "LUBE REPORT"
Industry News from the highly respected Lubes-n-Greases Trade Magazine
Wednesday, November 19, 2003
By Tim Sullivan
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
The association said the automaker has blocked blenders from making and selling its ATF+4 fluid – which was adopted in 1999 and is now recommended for most Chrysler vehicles. In addition it accused the company of leveraging its monopoly on the transmission fluid to muscle motor oil sales away from lubricant companies.
“To Chrysler, this probably is another revenue stream for a product code,” Executive Director Celeste Powers said. “However, to ILMA members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists.”
Chrysler first advised dealers in October 1999 that it had begun factory filling certain vehicles with ATF+4 and that they should service those vehicles with the same fluid, instead of the previous fluid, ATF+3. Two years later, the company advised that ATF+4 should be used in all vehicles with automatic transmissions except minivans built before 2000.
The association’s complaint said that Lubrizol is the exclusive manufacturer of chemistry for ATF+4 and that DaimlerChrysler has contracted Petro-Canada and ChevronTexaco to supply the fluid. The complaint said ILMA members that marketed earlier versions of the fluid requested the ATF+4 formula from DaimlerChrysler but were turned down. Members also contacted Lubrizol, ChevronTexaco and Petro-Canada but were told that those companies’ contracts with the automaker prohibited them from sharing the formula or reselling the fluid.
According to the complaint, such practices violate provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits automakers from conditioning warranties on the use of named oils or parts unless the automaker provides them for free or demonstrates that available alternatives will not function adequately.
The association noted that other automakers avoid the problem by licensing products that meet their specifications. ILMA officials said DaimlerChrysler has made formulas and specifications for previous fluids available to blenders.
The association said it urged DaimlerChrysler a year ago to establish a licensing program for ATF+4 and has tried several times since then to engage the company in discussions. ILMA legal counsel Jeffrey L. Leiter said the association has received no response.
“We tried to work this out with them but they’ve ignored us at every step of the way,” he said.
DaimlerChrysler did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The complaint said DaimlerChrysler “has taken its anticompetitive actions… one step further ”by allowing dealers to buy bulk volumes of ATF+4 only in combination with bulk purchases of their own Mopar brand motor oil. Dealers that decline the offer incur greater costs to buy the transmission fluid in smaller volumes.
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ILMA’s complaint asked the trade commission to investigate its allegations and to compel DaimlerChrysler to cease its practices. Officials acknowledged that the case does not involve a large amount of ATF+4, but said they are concerned about the possibility of other automakers imitating DaimlerChrysler’s actions.
“If Chrysler can get away with this, it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers, so ILMA had to take a stand,” Powers commented.
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My Opinion: That is why ATF+4 is expensive and also why D/C Dealers push the Mopar brand of oil ... to obtain the bulk discount prices on the ATF+4.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/31/2004
23:36:53
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ATF+3 +4 & Amzoil
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For the Record (and to clear the air):
Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's.
However, I know many Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF. They state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new. Yes we all know ... transmissions from different manufacturers use various types of clutch pack materials. So ... is it possible to formulate a single fluid that will behave differently in GM, Ford and Chrysler transmissions? The specifications for friction characteristics are for how the fluid behaves in the particular application, given the types of materials used in that transmission. They are not the stand alone properties of the fluid, which is where I think the misunderstanding comes in.
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Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF is truely "Universal"
Amsoil did offer a Synthetic ATF specifically for ATF +3/+4 applications about 3-4 years ago. However once they were able to integrate this additive chemistry into their Dexron/Mercon formulation, they discontinued making this second fluid.
__________________________________________________
Amsoil Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid. Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
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AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF is far superior to any group II base oil blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. We use a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet (and exceed) ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.
All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components. Repeat, ... Chrysler developed the "+4" spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. There are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers "+4" specs, including ours!
We didn’t just one day decide to make this claim just for the heck of it. This was very carefully researched and we have been developing superior fluids for over 30 years.
_______________  _______________
__________________________________________________
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF
Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
AMSOIL synthetic automatic transmission fluid is a universal ATF designed to exceed nearly all foreign and domestic performance requirements. It improves fuel efficiency, reduces transmission temperatures by 20 to 50 degrees F and increases transmission life. Provides unsurpassed thermal stability and at least 3 times the life of conventional ATFs. Delivers maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications. Formulated with synthetic basestocks and the top-of-the-line additive package, AMSOIL ATF provides top performance, durability & efficiency.
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Key Benefits to You:
Cleaner transmission components, More efficient power transfer, Lower Transmission temperatures, Dramatically less transmission wear, Smoother cold temperature operation, Long drain intervals, Compatible Applications: Nearly all passenger cars (foreign & domestic), Nearly all light duty trucks (including Dodge Dakotas).
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There a number of folks who run Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF --- in Dakota's (Member - BigBlue QC for one and Larry of J&J Auto for another), and others use Amsoil ATF in Dodge diesel pickups, in "LH" sedans like the Concorde and Dodge minivans, etc. It works just fine.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
another mark
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/01/2004
00:01:17
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
Fire your dumba55 mechanic. Why not use ATF4?
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Jennifer
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2004
15:42:14
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
It's a 1996 3.9 V-6 Magnunm - sorry, I should have mentioned this.
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2004
00:01:46
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
Jennifer,
I have been using the AMSOIL ATF for many years and it is a very
fine product, It will protect that new tranny !
What I like about the AMSOIL ATF is that it can be used in my
Dodge, my Dad's GMC truck and my sisters new Mazda Tribute.
No need to have three fluids in the garage !
Dr. D
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2004
16:12:03
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
Sorry to hear that your mechanic put Dextron II in your tranny. At bare minimum it should have been filled with ATF+3, better yet ATF+4. Your 96 didn't require ATF+4, only ATF+3 (check your owners manual), but ATF+4 is better fluid than ATF+3. Bad part about DC tranny fluid, ATF+3 you can get at auto part stores, $2/quart, ATF+4 you can only get from Dodge/Chrysler, $4-$7 per quart
Looks like you need to have the tranny flushed out with ATF+3 or ATF+4 to get all the Dextron out of the transmission :(
I also run "full synthetic" Amsoil ATF in my 2000 automatic transmission. It costs about $5-7/quart, a lot cheaper than a tranny rebuild.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
9/03/2004
17:17:32
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ATF+3 ATF+4 Amzoil
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Message:
ATF+4 is the latest version. All vehicles that called for ATF+3 are now being serviced with ATF+4. ATF+4 is Superior to ATF+3 and it is backwards compatible with ATF+3. Dodge realized that their transmissions were weak and they had to reformulate their ATF with more "grip" so that they would perform better.
Amsoil Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid is Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
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Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected transmission units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's, including 1996.
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__________  __________
Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
GM Dexron II, Dexron III; Ford Mercon, Mercon V; Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4; Mitsubishi Diamond SP II & III; Allison C-3 & C-4 and TES-295; Caterpillar Powershift Transmission TO-2 & TO-3; Voith Commercial Transmissions; GM Strasbourg (European Imports) and Opel; Applications requiring Honda Z-1 transmission fluids; Toyota Type T and T-IV
__________________________________________________
Interested in requesting a FREE Amsoil Catalog click the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
9/03/2004
17:25:02
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ATF+3 ATF+4 Amzoil
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Message:
Since 1999, due to the special requirements of their automatic transmissions, Chrysler has recommended a unique ATF+4 formulation. In addition, Chrysler has been recommending ATF+4 for all previous makes and models of Chrysler Corporation vehicles.
The new AMSOIL Synthetic ATF exceeds the performance specifications for Chrysler ATF+, +2, +3, and +4 as well as MS-7176 A, B, C, D, & E; MS-9602 A, B, & C. as well as Ford Mercon or General Motors Dexron III applications. AMSOIL Synthetic ATF is available in quarts, quart cases, twin packs, 30-gallon and 55-gallon drums.
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Automatic Transmission Fluids are either:
--- a thin dino
--- sythetic
--- or blend "base" oil
with anti-foam, anti-oxidation, red dye and other additives, with a very high level of dispersants and little or no detergents.
The main difference between one type of ATF and another is the amount of friction modifier additive for control of servo clutch action. Type F contains no Friction Modifier, Dexron/Mercon contaion a moderate amount and Chrysler "ATF+__" contains the most.
The transmission does not get "dirty" inside like an engine, ... but it does need to keep the clutch band particles, etc., from settling and clogging valve, passages, etc. Basically, ATF is a hydraulic oil ... with the specific additive package for transmissions, plus the red dye for identification.
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WHY SYNTHETIC vs. NON-SYNTHETIC's or BLENDS ???
In General ... A 100% TRUE "Synthetic" ATF FLOWS BETTER WHEN COLD, DOES NOT GET AS HOT, AND BREAKS DOWN AT A HIGHER TEMPERATURE ... than conventional crude petroleum ATF, and thus SYNTHETIC ATF's HAVE A LONGER WORKING LIFE.
Specifically, ... Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF improves fuel efficiency, reduces transmission temperatures, increases transmission life, provides unsurpassed thermal stability, and offers up to five times the service life of conventional ATFs. It also delivers maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications.
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AMSOIL ATF resists thermal and oxidative degradation up to THREE TO FIVE TIMES LONGER than conventional transmission fluids do. It protects clutches, planetary gears, valves, pumps and seals from damaging sludge and varnish deposits. AMSOIL ATF helps prevent component overheating and ensures cooler, smoother transmission operation.
AMSOIL ATF outperforms petroleum fluids in low temperature fluidity. In fact, AMSOIL ATF offers three times the cold temperature fluidity required by current automatic transmission fluid specifications. AMSOIL ATF provides easier starting, faster warm-ups, smoother shifting and improved fuel economy.
AMSOIL ATF is formulated for EXTENDED DRAIN INTERVALS. Transmissions usually operate under severe service conditions. They are subjected to extensive idling, frequent short trips, cold temperature driving, sustained hot weather driving or trailer towing. When conventional transmission fluid is used, it should be changed every 15,000 to 30,000 miles. AMSOIL ATF should be changed at intervals up to three times longer than the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer.
__________________________________________________
AMSOIL Synthetics Automatic Transmission Fluid is completely compatible with other synthetic and petroleum automatic transmission fluids. AMSOIL ATF is a universal, multifunctional fluid and greatly reduces the need for specialized fluid inventories and the possibilities of misapplication.
__________________________________________________
Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
Joe.C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/03/2004
17:45:56
|  RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
Forget that Universal crap. I tried it and I thought I was going need a new transmission.
I'm using Dexron +3 from valevoline and now its almost back to normal in shifting.
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/03/2004
19:51:50
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
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Message:
Don't let the "Universal" term scare you. I own A Dodge Ram with
a Cummins diesel and tow a 20 foot flatbed with over 8,500 lbs.
every day.
Transmission runs 30 degrees cooler and shifts much better
with the AMSOIL "Universal" ATF.
Dr. D
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
9/04/2004
08:38:23
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ATF+3 ATF+4 Amzoil
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Message:
Well Joe C.,
You did not state whether you tried Amsoil
Synthetic Universal ATF or another brand.
What I do know is that the following members
of this site use Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ...
--- Larry of J&J Auto
--- Big Blue QC
--- And Many Others
... and they love it!
They talk about measurable improvements of ...
--- Lower Operating Temperatures
--- Smoother Shifting
... and lab tests and millions of highway miles have demonstrated:
--- Cleaner transmission components
--- More efficient power transfer
--- Lower Transmission temperatures
--- Dramatically less transmission wear
--- Smoother cold temperature operation
--- Long drain intervals
... and improved MPG when used in conjunction with
Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil and Gear Lube.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
9/04/2004
19:45:02
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ATF+3 ATF+4 Amzoil
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Message:
Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Retail Pricing
(preferred customers receive discounted pricing of approximately 20%)
Product Codes - Quantity/Size - Retail Pricing
ATF-QT - (1) quart bottle ------------ $7.80
ATF-01 - (12) quart bottles --------- $92.40
ATF-TP - (1) 2 1/2-gallon bottle ---- $74.25
ATF-05 - (2) 2 1/2-gallon bottles - $146.50
ATF-30 - (1) 30-gallon drum ------- $689.00
ATF-55 - (1) 55-gallon drum ----- $1,181.00
--------------------------------------------------
Let me quote a good friend, and member of DodgeDakotas.com ---
--- BigBlue QC, a.k.a. Artie, with whom I have shared many emails:
"I have been using AMSOIL ATF since 4,000 miles (60,000 now) with absolutely ZERO problems. Just had an analysis done, the fluid is fine for continued use."
__________________________________________________
For a FREE Amsoil Catalog, click the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
03 QC Sport +
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/05/2004
10:56:14
| RE: Trans Fluid Type
IP: Logged
Message:
Steve isn't the Torque-Drive Synthetic recommended for the Allison TES-295 Spec.?? I believe only Castrol Tran-Synd and the Amsoil Torque-Drive fluids currently meet this spec.
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