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General Dakota Board
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
08:31:11
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 Subject: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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For those of you that can remember my original post about my truck's problem this is an update. I had originally posted that my truck likes to bounce, and the rear axle likes to shudder on bumpy/uneven pavement. This causes a vibration that seems to kick out the rear end, simulating a fishtail like behaviour. My tires were pretty bald, and most of you attributed the rough ride to that. Some suggested that my suspension needed tweaking, others saying shocks. I have heard that a lot of you have the same problem, that this is something that seems to happen to our trucks quite a bit. So heres the update...
Info - 2002 Ext. Cab Dakota 4x2 4.7 53k miles
New Tires - smoothed out the ride, the strong vibration in the steering wheel is now gone, leaving only a small shudder now and then, but the uncontrollable feeling in the steering wheel when the truck hits the bumps still remain. The rear end still wants to vibrate to one side when hitting rough pavement.
Plan to tweak tighten suspension this week.
I have 52,000 miles on my truck, are shocks an issue? Should I consider flushing my diff? I've had my ball joints replaced 20k ago, is there anything else suspension related that could cause this? I had only noticed this problem after 30k miles. The truck was pretty solid when I bought it new. Any help would be appreciated I have the time and the money to get this fixed and maybe I could save some of you guys time/money by working this problem out on here. Thanks!
Also, my wheel likes to jerk when the truck is rolling over a bump or ridge in the pavement, when moving less than 7 mph. This causes a feeling that the wheel moves quickly to one side or another if I don't force it to straighten. Don't know if this is related. Problem did not go away with new tires.
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?
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
08:49:32
|  RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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What ' brand ' ball joints ?
Factory-warranty ?
May be bad again !!
Shocks should NOT be an issue , unless you reaaly
load up and take it over some really rough roads
continually..
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
08:56:09
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Dealer replaced ball joints, should be standard mopar replacement part ball joints. Ball joints are no longer under warranty as they only back up replacement parts 12 months or 12,000 miles and that is up. Trucks powertrain is the only thing left under warranty. 10 year/100k warranty.
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CThomp
*GenIII*
8/30/2004
08:58:26
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Replace the shocks with some KYB Monomax shocks. They are a little pricey but well worth it.
And have the ball joints replaced with moogs, not the factory ones. If you have factory ones, they probably already have blown out.
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/30/2004
09:19:46
|  RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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? - shocks ARE the issue.
Mr. Sleepy - it sounds like you might be confused because you seem to be looking for one solution to a problem that can be adressed in multiple ways; and your front steering issue is a separate issue. Rear ends of Daks tend to come unplanted and step out after hitting bumps because the stock shocks are not well suited to the spring characteristics of our unloaded trucks ( not enough rebound damping ). Changing to better shocks will help; many have chosen that path. Changing the spring rate is another solution. Many are probably trying higher tire pressure for better milage - that will make this problem worse because tire pressure also affects spring rate. My solution was to air down my reat tires to 32 psi - effect is still noticable, but much more controlable. This was noticable in my regular cab Dak from the day it was new, had more to do with poorly selected shocks than malfunctioning shocks. The regular cabs may be more prone to this, that could be why you didn't notice it until your shocks lost more damping. Another solution would be to remove a spring for those who don't really use their truck as a truck.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
10:34:03
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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I use my truck in a fashion similar to a cargo van, I carry large items for work on a daily basis, but I don't carry much more than 200 pounds per trip. Once in a while I carry a very heavy item, but that is more like once every few months. I have put 60 pounds worth of lead shot bags on the rear axle without much difference and I'm thinking about another 100 pounds, but I'm hoping to avoid that, since adding weight shouldn't be a solution to anything but snow conditions. How about a set of monroe sensatrac shocks? I can't justify high performance shocks on a truck that never takes a turn faster than 10 mph and never exceeds 80 mph. My turck also never sees anything but pavement.
FYI - I have the option on my truck for 255/65/16's, so I have a fat tire on it. But like I said they are new so that isn't an issue. Last Alignment was 8,000 miles ago in case you needed to know. I was considering shocks for the longest time since I repeatably had to travel over speed bumps at 20 to 30mph multiple times a day for over a year with this truck, I thought that might have worn my shocks out quicker.
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Old Fool
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
11:58:49
|  RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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I think CThomp and Kowalski are right on track for the shocks.
The Monroes would more than likely help a lot.
If you have the stock RSAs and hauling very light loads or no load on your truck then also lower the air pressure in the rear tires to 28 psi. Leave the fronts at 32 this helped me a lot in Germany. My truck would chatter out on the curves with an empty bed if it had some bumps in it. My final answer was putting much wider tires (295/50-16s) on the rear and keeping the air pressure at about 26 psi. I have the rear sway bar and some Ground Forces Gas Shocks that have great rebound caracteristics. My truck rarely if ever chatters out now.
Good Luck,
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
13:14:30
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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The guy that works at the shop that does my auto work, says that 50k is a bit early for shocks. Is it possible they can be so bad with so few miles? You guys have me convinced but I want to be 100% that it will help...
Thanks a bunch for all the help you guys, thank you for taking time out of your day to help me out.
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RadioMan
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
14:05:18
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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What the heck state you live in, Mr.Sleepy? If I
ran into as many pot holes, wash board roads that
you claim you're hitting, my Dak would be in the
junk yard.
Dakota does not offer a "Off Road" package meaning
stronger axles, better shocks, etc etc.
The last time I ran my Dakota on roads like that
was with a 98 4X4 in Upper Michigan. The sand road
was like a wash board. I could not even keep my
glove box closed! I'm 100% sure that if I had to
travel that road every day, my 98 would have
fallen apart within six months.
Good lock on your fixes...
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Stampy
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
17:34:43
|  RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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I replaced my shocks on my 2003 Dakota Sport at 4,000 km. They were still like new, but that doesn't mean they were a good match for the truck. I put on Monroe Reflex shocks, but any premium gas shock will make the truck handle much better than the stock shocks.
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ZenDak
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2004
08:00:48
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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stupid question/suggestion,,,but perhaps you have a bent axel?,,,,,,My left side was slightly bent once,,,felt like it would fishtail all the damn time - this was after a wreck of course....
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2004
08:57:40
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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I live in Michigan, Detroit Area, worst roads in the United states so im told. The road crews never patch pot holes, we wait for a honda to fall in and fill it up for us! =)
ZenDak, I thought about that, and had it checked, the axle is straight as an arrow. Nice thought though.
Okay, well I'm going to have shocks put on within a week, probably next monday, I will update and let you guys know how this ends up.
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2004
21:54:43
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Spring rates a good Idea, even a new set of rear springs may be in order, or maybe the front eye bushings are worn out. Energy suspension has polyurethane bushing replacements.
the jerking in the front end when you hit a bump could be from bad tie-rods, or possibly a worn out rack, to tough to really tell, but my suggestion is to start by getting an alignment, to check your caster and camber, and of course toe, but mainly the first two. (they should be able to judge the racks condition then) Caster and camber are unfortunately a difficult thing for most shops to set properly on most trucks, and many don't mess with it simply because they don't know, or just don't want to. Anyway, if your camber, or the vertical lean parallel to the direction of travel... or the caster, the Vert lean of the tire perpendicular to the direction of travel, of the tire is too far off, when you hit a bump of a hole, it wants to steer.... which is where it gets its name, "bump-steer". to put it simply, when you bump something, with a front tire, the geometry of the steering arm actually changes the path of the tire, shifting the overall direction of the vehicle. ALSO, if you've hit a bunch of holes, which I'm sure living in Michigan ( go Wolverines!) You probably have, you might of bumped your upper A arm loose, you can see the two large nuts holding them in place from the engine bay, on the suspension shaft that holds the Arm in place. caster is set by the front, and camber by the rear. get a professional alignment, and be sure that you read the specifications on the printout, and don't forget to ask them if they will be able to adjust all three ( caster, Camber, and toe)... Wow, thats enough ranting.
anymore suspension ??? let me know, I work on em all day long.
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2004
12:57:41
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Message:
***UPDATE!***
Had my shocks replaced on Friday with Monroe SensaTracs, front and rears. Cost me $50, not including parts which I got for free. Took it on the road all weekend (had no choice since im working sat, sun, and mon) and had some highway speeds. The shocks definately helped out a lot. The bumps are less noticeable, the smaller ridges in the pavement are non-existant. The rear end still hops a little, but plants itself more firmly with less body sway and bounce. Turning at higher speeds with new shocks hasn't reduced the rear end hop which seems to happen. The front vibration problems went away, but the wheel still jerks itself to one side when slowing down on un-even pavement, on new concrete the wheel doesn't jerk which eliminates the theory the brakes are bad, and I replaced rotors, and pads last month. The front end jiggle when hitting bumps or rough pavement still exists, although it is much less now, but still presents a problem of control while going through it. Could you suspension gurus let me know what I can do as a garage monkey with basic tools, and what might need to be addressed by a technician? Also, I'm going in for an alignment this week, probably wednesday so I can get this truck ready for a vacation.
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ERIC
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2004
21:50:29
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Message:
All trucks when hitting bumps tend to fishtail if thyre beds are empty. Put a little weight in the back and try those rough roads again. I have drivin many different types of trucks all with the same fishtailing bounce you referred to. It is normal. Shocks will help just as long as you don't get factory replacements. The bump in the steering you feel under 7mph is also more than likely normal. Iv'e done a ton of wheelin since i have been driving and bump steer when hitting a bump is unavoidable.
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CThomp
*GenIII*
9/07/2004
09:44:58
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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To get rid of some of the rear end hop you could also get a rear sway bar or the Roadmaster Active Suspension setup (or both). It costs under $200 and makes the rear end feel much more controllable whether empty or loaded. It will raise the back end of your truck by about 1/2". This is one of the best mods i've done to my truck so far. I carried over 2000lbs worth of tile and the back end didn't even slouch. It actually just evened out.
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
15:18:23
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Nice ideas, I'll look into that. I'm going to throw some weight in the back on the axle line, I'm thinking 100 pounds, I have 70 pound back there right now.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
21:54:52
| RE: Update on Unstable road perf, need help
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Try 300-400# on the back axle and you will notice a real difference in the ride. I took a trip to Reno last Christmas and loaded 8 - 50# sand bags at the back of the bed. WOW the truck rode like a Cadillac,, well not quite, but certainly much better then an empty bed. the bouncing and chattering driving down the freeway was gone.
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