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Rob Martel
Dodge Dakota
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8/25/2004
11:11:56
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 Subject: towing
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Should I even consider towing anything such as a 24' 5th wheel RV with my R/T? I have heard conflicting reports but no concrete evidence. Any info would be a great help!!!!!!
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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8/25/2004
11:27:40
|  RE: towing
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Rob,
Foremost, if you're going far at all, a transmission cooler is a must! The r/t's only come in autos, thus needing it. The 2000 lb tow rating may be due to using the bumper as the hitch. I dunno
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Deerridge
GenIII
8/25/2004
12:09:08
|  RE: towing
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I pull a tagalong 3 horse trailer up to about 7500lbs with my Rc 4.7 auto. It has a 3.92 rear end and all the Heavy duty options. For a fifth wheel you'd have to have everything. The R/T really isn't set up for towing. The addition of a Roadmaster Active Suspension would help too.
Real Horsepower
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/25/2004
15:56:14
| RE: towing
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The R/T has almost no towing capacity because of the suspension. It's lower and softer than standard. And the tires are not made to handle that kind of weight, either. If you change those things, it will tow fine. But then it wouldn't be an R/T anymore.
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/25/2004
16:12:28
| RE: towing
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The fifth wheel hitch will add some weight to your RT, but you might not mind the extra traction that will give you. I'd recomend a tranny cooler but wouldn't worry too much about the other stuff. I pull a 24.5' fifth wheel, pretty much the size you are looking at. I rigged up a bumpper rack to haul a 150qt cooler and couldn't use it because it took too much weight off the hitch - there isn't much weight on your truck from a fifth wheel hitch.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Justi
Dodge Dakota
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8/25/2004
17:26:36
| RE: towing
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Hey Kowalski, I'm sure I have this confused but what do you mean by this:
"I rigged up a bumpper rack to haul a 150qt cooler and couldn't use it because it took too much weight off the hitch "
I have a hitch caddy that I use to haul a 100qt+ cooler and can't imagine that you're saying it creates a problem for you. I guess the part I don't understand is when you say it took too much weight off the hitch.. Please elaborate..
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slopehead
Dodge Dakota
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8/26/2004
20:35:06
| RE: towing
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he put the cooler on the back of the trailer. the cooler fully loaded weight around 100 to 150 lbs' the trailer axel acts like a teeter toter pivot point. when weight is applied to the rear it raises the front, so a 150 lb load on the rear takes 150 off the front, thus his statement.
my six year old granddaughter figured it out.
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/27/2004
09:21:26
| RE: towing
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Message:
Exactly - an example of how little weight is actually on the pin with a fifth wheel set up. That was enough to make the trailer almost neutrally balanced. Fifth wheel trailers tow so well that it still pulled pretty good; but with an annoying clunking as the pin loaded and unloaded its weight on the hitch. Try that lack of tongue weight with a regular camper and it will cause some nasty sway, pushing you all over the road.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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AndrewM
Dodge Dakota
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8/27/2004
10:47:13
| RE: towing
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"Exactly - an example of how little weight is actually on the pin with a fifth wheel set up."
That statement is completely false. The pin weight of a 5th wheel is much heavier than the tongue weight of a travel trailer. Typically, the tongue weight of a travel trailer is in the 12-15% range, while the pin weight of a 5th wheel is in the 20-25% range.
For example, take a look at this Flaggstaff 22'4" 5th wheel. It has a dry weight of 3,740 lbs and a pin weight of 749 lbs. That's right at 20%.
So, even assuming a very lightweight 5th wheel (say 5,000 lbs loaded), you're still looking at a minimum of 1,000 lbs pin weight. Very few Dakotas would be able to handle that and still remain within the GVWR. An RT has no chance.
For example, my 02 QC 4x2 has a GVWR of 6,010 lbs. That's the max the truck can weigh, including pin weight / tongue weight. Full of fuel, with me in it, my truck weighs about 4800 lbs. If you add 1,000 lbs of pin weight, that only leaves 210 lbs for passengers and stuff without going over the GVWR. Not realistic.
Most Dakotas should stick to towing travel trailers. RTs should stick to hauling ass.
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deerridge
GenIII
8/27/2004
14:09:42
| RE: towing
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No, your a little off on that. My Rc has a load capacity of 1850, GVWR of 5900 lbs. That would leave 850 for passengers and load. THe combined rating on mine is 10200 I beieve, but its' very conservative. I go over by a thousand without a thought on a tagalong. With a fifth wheel the rating is usually up a thousand pounds anyway.
Real Horsepower
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AndrewM
Dodge Dakota
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8/27/2004
16:01:17
| RE: towing
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Message:
The payload capacity is based on the GVWR minus the curb weight, including a 150 lb driver. Your ACTUAL payload capacity is the GVWR minus the ACTUAL weight of the truck. My guess is that your truck weighs more than the published curb weight. Mine sure does, by several hundred pounds.
Also, how do you know that 10,200 lbs GCWR is conservative? You a Dodge engineer? Just because you can pull more than that, doesn't mean you can do it safely (ie, panic stop).
Where did you get that the GCWR or GVWR is increased for 5th wheel towing? You're just making that one up.
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deerridge
GenIII
8/28/2004
11:10:12
| RE: towing
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Look on the various truck websites and most manufactureres rate tagalongs separate from goosenecks with about that differential. The 4.7 Dakota has the same engine and transmission as the Ram and Durango, both rated significantly higher. Rating are set as much by sales, profit and lawyers as by engineers. Tow ratings are higher for more expensive Rams. If you go through the tow truck rating system for hanging weight and tow capacity that considers axle ratings, front and rear overhang and load capacity, you'll come up with about that #1000 diffrence also. By the way, the truck brakes without trailer brakes want really adequitely stop you either. A 5000# trailer will push almost any light pickup around like a toy without brakes of its own.
Real Horsepower
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/30/2004
09:53:11
| RE: towing
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Message:
AndrewM - you appear completely confused. Do you even own a fifth wheel camper ? I assure you my statement is NOT "completey false", its what I've observed in an actual application. If I had that much weight on the pin, the cooler would not have affected it. Fully loaded my camper is about 5000 lbs, and there's just no way there's 1000 lbs on the pin. My electric brakes are properly adjusted; and it stops quite well. Fifth wheel campers handle much better than tag alongs; don't see any good reason why you, who seem to know so little about them, should be steering people away from them. They dont push the truck around or need load equalizing devices like other trailers.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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AndrewM
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2004
12:37:38
| RE: towing
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I personally do not own a 5th wheel. I have a travel trailer. But, I do know alot about them. I've towed my father's several times and have done TONS of research on towing. I'll stand by my statement that 5th wheels have a higher percentage of pin weight than travel trailers. You'll be hard pressed to find 5th wheel that has a pin weight less than a similar travel trailer.
What is the make/model of your 5th wheel? What is your pin weight?
And for the record, I never steered anyone away from a 5th wheel. You just need enough truck to handle one. The payload capacity for most (not all) Dakotas isn't high enough to effectively handle the weight of a 5th wheel.
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deerridge
GenIII
8/30/2004
14:31:01
| RE: towing
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A 5000 # fifth wheel is no where near the load capacity of most Dakota's that come with tow packages. Typical tow capacity is 5 to 6700 pounds. My brother pulls a 5000# airstream with a v6 Ford Explorer(and its a Ford!) all up and down the East Coast. I think its rated at 5000 max. He's about 50000 on it like that. I don't think we need to worry much about the Dakota's.
Real Horsepower
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/31/2004
07:41:23
| RE: towing
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Message:
AndrewM - I won't be as hard pressed to find that trailer as you seem to want people to believe, its the '87 Prowler Lynx parked right outside in my driveway. My freinds '86 Yukon fifth wheel doesn't squat his truck much either; another example of a fifth wheel that tows much better than a tag along without much pin weight. Dakotas work quite well with this size fifth wheel.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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