Castrol start up - Dodge Dakota Forum

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mopar_man Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/26/2004 05:45:01	Subject: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: I saw an advertisement for a new product called castrol start up.I think it is supposed to form a molecular bond to engine parts to protect at start up.Proably just another sales Gimmick.I am sure my Ole buddy the amsoil man will have some information on this product.
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 7/26/2004 06:54:57	Amsoil Dealer - Castrol Start Up Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: Well ........... "Start-Up" wear IS the #1 cause of most engine wear (and the reason everyone should use a 100% True Synthetic Oil for greater protection). Start-Up Oil? I don't like Castrol's marketing gimmicks: (Note: Castrol was the oil company that went to court to get a broader definition of the term "synthetic oil". Their oils are NOT truely synthetic. They are conventional crude dino refined to a higher degree.) Now what are they up to? This oil just hit the shelves and I have not seen any Virgin Oil Analysis' or Used Oil Analysis' performed on the oil ... but I am certain that it is a FAKE synthetic or Synthetic Blend with additional additives of some sort. If you really want the most protection, why not spend a little more and get a 100% TRUE SYNTHETIC OIL with perhaps the best additive package, including esters, (i.e. Amsoil or Redline). Marketing gimmicks that confuse the consumers: GTX - Drive Hard ? Short Trip Oil - (merely added esters to a synthetic blend) Syntec - a FAKE Synthetic - Group 3 Hydrocracked Crude (dino) High Mileage Oil - for engines over 75k miles Start-Up Oil - to prevent "start up" wear Marketing gimmicks that confuse the consumers! According to their own marketing, someone with a regular vehicle with low miles on it is supposed to use GTX. Someone who is into High Performance should use Syntec. Owners with higher mileage vehicles should use the GTX High Mileage. Someone who wants a Lslightly better High Performance oil, but without the higher price tag is supposed to use Syntec Blend. Who then is supposed to use the GTX Start Up? The "MAGIC" ingredient ... extra esters as additives. Amsoil and Redline already have high esters additives in their oils and don't need to relabel them as "Start-Up". We know our oils protect on start-up. __________________________________________________ Since we are on the topic, here were my earlier comments regarding "High Mileage" Oil: "A recent issue of Lubes-n-Greases had a article on the high mileage oils and Valvoline (holding 80% of the High Mileage Oil market) attributes them to "padding their bottom line quite nicely". They "DID NOT" mention the benefits of using such a product but they sure were pleased with the results of the marketing. For high mileage vehicles that have not been maintained well, or there is no way to determine how they were maintained, I might consider using these oils. I think the best thing about them is that they are thicker oils, so instead of being like most Xw-30 oils which are thin 30wts, these are on the high end. Perfect for aging engines. And the added esters do help a little bit. And, I do believe the high mileage oils are better if you want to do 5k mile drains instead of 3k, since they are usually "hydrocracked" semi synthetic oils technically." It appears that many owners are going to "high mileage" oils for no reason other then they have a high mileage engine ... whether or not their engines are demonstrating problems. Most "high mileage" oils are just basic conventional oils that are formulated a bit on the thicker side of their respective viscosities, plus they add about 10% esters in the base oil for their slight seal swelling effect (which is very very minor I must add). Some people are switching if their vehicles are consuming oil. The main reason people see reduced oil consumption (using high mileage oil) is due to their thicker viscosity. Most of these oils appear to be marketing gimmicks. I am not saying they are "bad" oils ... just gimmicks. __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 7/26/2004 10:00:22	Amsoil Dealer - Castrol Start Up Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: Eight reasons you need a 100% TRUE SYNTHETIC OIL -- for whatever you drive -- and NOT a "gimmick" oil. Today’s engines need the extra protection that a premium synthetic motor oil offers. Here are just eight reasons why 100% TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils and drivetrain lubes are number one for today’s enthusiast. 100% TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils and Lubricants offer superior wear protection (especially at "Start-Up") so that engines last longer. TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils improve fuel economy so that vehicles get better mileage out of every tank of gas. TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils have been proven to provide more horsepower. By reducing friction TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils help engines run cooler. By reducing deposits engines run cleaner and perform more efficiently with TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils . Due to lower volatility TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils reduce oil consumption. Due to its low pour point and cold weather pumpability, TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils make winter starts much easier. Because TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils resist oxidation and breakdown, it reduces varnish and sludge which keeps valves and rings from sticking. __________________________________________________ You can request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
IntenseDak39 GenIII 7/26/2004 10:31:58	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: good write-up Steven! very informative... only thing is i believe with proper maintance, any motor can last as long as you want no matter what the oil. We have a '85 Dodge B150 Van with a 318 in it. Has 300,000 miles on it... and only about 50K of it in the last 10 years (my brother's and i started driving, we dont do the family trips anymore). Now sure the motor is wearing down and needs a rebuild, but it runs strong enough (just wont pass a sniffer). It has always been fed Castrol GTX oil. Of course, the type has changed throughout the years. I wouldnt say it would look any better if it had used synthetic all it's life... the tolerances of motors back then wouldnt allow it... just to show, i used Mobil 1 15w50 in my big block and couldnt get over 15 psi oil pressure when warm. When i use the recommended Heavy Duty 15w40, it's gets about 70-80 psi when warm. just for grins... the van's 318 has so many miles on it... it likes good ol' 20w50 engine honey. Only thing that fills the gaps :D 6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
mopar_man Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/26/2004 12:40:12	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: I agree with the amsoil man I think this is just another gimmick to confuse cosumers and increase profits.It is proably GTX formula with a few additives that will cost more .
hey steve? Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/26/2004 14:28:57	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: how come the only magazine article you could quote from was about Valvoline instead of the company in question, Castrol? "Valvoline blah blah blah blah" And then you quote Marketing guys which as we all know and especially you, Steve, make up any snake oil gobbldey goock hose pucky B.S. they think that they can get the public to believe. If once you would quote the chemist that designed this stuff you proport to sell, and the chemist that designed all the stuff you knock, I might beleive maybe a little bit of what you say. My brother in law's sister in law (his brother's wife) is a chemist for Sun Refineries and she says you speak a lot of B.S. mixed in with misrepresentations of the truth. So who do you think I am going to beleive? Someone that makes and designs the chemical composition of the product or some guy with a degree in sales (what I refer to as sales deception). By the way, every one that you quote or claim to be a relitive that sells the stuff you hawk is also, if you look carefully at the credentials you quote for them, either a used or new car sales person, and I consider them to be the slimiest people around, right up there with lawyers and door to door sales men. Once you can come up with proof from other then "SALES" people I might start to listen, but as long as I here chemists teling me he speaks with forked tongue, I will ride you.
sorry Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/26/2004 14:30:05	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: I meant to say horse pucky not hose pucky
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 7/26/2004 15:00:04	Amsoil Dealer - Castrol Start Up Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: First, I addressed the original question regarding CASTROL and "Start-Up" Oil, ... and then along the same thought process added the comments regarding "High Mileage Oil" that I had made on another thread on this site regarding the "gimmickery" of marketing. Valvoline just happened to be the company mentioned in the article regarding High Mileage Oil. __________________________________________________ I do not have to defend Amsoil. Amsoil is recognized as one of the TOP Synthetic Motor Oils in the World. Amsoil spares no expense when it comes to additives, selecting the most robust additive packages on the market. These additives keep AMSOIL motor oils shear stable, resist the degrading effects of varnish and sludge, keep engine components clean and deposit-free and effectively resist rust, corrosion and foaming. I would like to post the following article reprinted from an Industry Trade Magazine. Not my words ... but a respected Industry professional. __________ __________ --------------- (David McFall's column on AMSOIL, reprinted from "Lubes 'n' Greases" Industry Trade Magazine, March 2003, in the hopes of "Reducing America's Dependence On Foreign Oil", and the elimination of tens of millions of unnecessary oil changes) -------------------------------------------------- AMSOIL Applauded for Extended Drain Technology AMSOIL founder A.J. Amatuzio coined the phrase "extended drain intervals" back in 1972 with the introduction of AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil, formulated for 25,000-mile/one-year drain intervals. Not only was AMSOIL motor oil the first synthetic oil to pass American Petroleum Institute (API) service requirements, AMSOIL INC. was the only motor oil company promoting oil drains beyond 3,000 miles. Today, motorists are still bombarded with propaganda from the major oil companies promoting 3,000-mile oil changes. However, the industry is slowly but surely coming around. Vehicle manufacturers typically suggest 5,000- to 7,500-mile intervals in their owners manuals, and many manufacturers have also started incorporating oil life monitors into their vehicles, allowing motorists to safely extend drain intervals by monitoring oil life and alerting drivers when the oil needs changing. Competing oil companies have also begun marketing their own synthetics, some claiming service lives extending beyond 3,000 miles. Lubes-n-Greases Automotive Editor David McFall, once with the American Petroleum Institute recently tackled the issue of extended drain intervals in his March column, criticizing the standard 3,000-mile oil change and referring to the American motor oil market as "shackled". "In Europe the average engine oil drain interval for current gasoline-fueled cars is about 10,000 miles," explains McFall. "In the United States, indicates the Automotive Oil Change Association, the average drain interval followed by most drivers is somewhat less than 5,000 miles, one-half of Europe's. "Every year in the United States, this "too-short" drain interval results in the unneeded production of 300 million to 400 million gallons of engine oil; excess consumer expenditures of around $1.5 billion; and tens of millions of unnecessary oil changes." Not only are these unnecessary oil changes an expense to consumers, explains McFall, but they have an environmental cost as well. "The added environmental cost of having an average 5,000-mile oil drain interval (instead of 10,000 miles, as in Europe) may be nearly 100 million gallons of engine oil being dumped, untreated, into the U.S. environment annually." McFall's examination of Mobil 1, Shell and AMSOIL demonstrates the differences among companies who are shackled to the current system and one who isn't. According to an ExxonMobil spokesperson, "Car owners should follow the oil change intervals specified by the manufacturer. We believe it is inappropriate to recommend drain intervals that may conflict with those set forth by the car manufacturer's specifications." "Here, in a nutshell," says McFall, "is this observer's take on ExxonMobil's and the oil industry's 'owner's manual' position: It is designed solely to increase motor oil sales." He backs it up by mentioning that Mobil 1 SuperSyn motor oil claims to meet European ACEA A5 and B5-02 specifications, two specifications intended to extend oil drain intervals. "If the oil can be used in Europe for extended drain intervals, why doesn't ExxonMobil notify U.S. consumers of that capability?" asks McFall. Although Shell Oil Products, owner of Pennzoil-Quaker State, has broken through the shackles enough to offer an API unlicensed oil specially formulated for higher mileage engines, they make no mention of a recommended drain interval, preferring instead to avoid the issue and keep consumers in the dark. McFall marvels at the success of the independent motor oil company that offers drain intervals up to 11 times longer than the standard interval offered by conventional oils, saying, "Purists can sniff that AMSOIL's data isn't derived from a controlled field study, but the sheer mountain of vehicle miles over three decades, and the absence of any confirmed performance, wear or maintenance issues, speaks volumes." McFall sums up his column by highlighting the true value of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil, stating the cost may be "two to three times higher than most retail conventional oils but if you can securely count on a 15,000- to 25,000-mile drain interval, it's a flat-out bargain, not to mention providing a clear environmental bonus." So, what is it that allows AMSOIL motor oils to be used for extended drain intervals, while other oils must be changed significantly sooner? First, the synthetic base stocks with which AMSOIL motor oils are formulated are worlds apart in quality compared with conventional base stocks. The synthetic molecules are uniform in size and shape, resisting the vaporization that boils off the smaller molecules of conventional motor oils and leaves behind a thicker, higher viscosity oil that compromises engine protection. AMSOIL motor oils surpass even the most stringent European volatility standards, providing superior protection for extended drain intervals. Second, AMSOIL spares no expense when it comes to additives, selecting the most robust additive packages on the market. These additives keep AMSOIL motor oils shear stable, resist the degrading effects of varnish and sludge, keep engine components clean and deposit-free and effectively resist rust, corrosion and foaming. By using only the highest quality synthetic base stocks and additives available, AMSOIL motor oils are capable of extended drain intervals, all while maintaining performance, providing long-term wear protection and fuel economy, keeping engines clean and deposit-free, providing cold weather starts and protecting against rust and corrosion. --------------- Lubes 'n' Greases logo is a Registered Trademark of LNG Publishing Company, Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________ __________ Amsoil ... over 30 years in the industry and not one FTC complaint, fine, etc. __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
Darryl Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/26/2004 19:19:46	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: Steve, since all of your anecdotal questions you posted in your 1st post were obviously stolen from a post on bobistheoilguy.com, maybe you should have read more while you were on the site, there is an VOA of the Castrol Startup 10w-30 in the.....Gasp....VOA section. I am leary of any company that uses the tactic of CONSISTENTLY bashing the competition to promote and sell their product. I will gladly give my hard earned $ to Castrol and their "FAKE" group III synthetic oil, and drive down the road proud that your company will NEVER get a single penny from me. Darryl
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 7/26/2004 19:32:56	Amsoil Dealer - Castrol Start Up Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: Yes, I visit BITOG every day (good guys), and if my answers are similar, then so be it. They were my opinions long before I read something similar anywhere else. I especially love Castrol's television commercial (cars side by side in a laboratory) where in VERY TINY PRINT they state they tested it against perhaps the cheapest off the shelf dino. Certainly not apples to apples. I have been marketing oil for well over a decade. First at a construction equipment rental company that also sold gasoline and other related products, then a short stint at a NAPA store, and then Amsoil as a side-line. I did not bash the Castrol, I actually stated, "Most of these oils appear to be marketing gimmicks. I am not saying they are "bad" oils ... just gimmicks.", __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 7/26/2004 19:51:58	Amsoil Dealer - Castrol Start Up Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: Oh yes, and why not borrow from other experts? BITOG, Amsoil Literature, the "Dealers Only" section of the Amsoil Web Site, other Forums, and Lubes 'n' Greases (a well respected Oil Industry Trade Magazine). If I was concerned about writing original work I would spend my whole day drafting responses. Do I have to defend myself? No ... Even the King James Version of the Bible was a redraft of existing documents. __________________________________________________ To call an oil a "Start-Up Oil" or a "High Mileage Oil", or a "Drive Hard Oil", or a "Short Trip Oil" is still "pure marketing gimmicks". __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
Darryl Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 00:02:39	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: "Pure Marketing Gimmick" eh?? Wouldn't that be like you using the word TRUE in your 2nd post 10 times???? I think 1 time would have been sufficient to get the point across that Amsoil is a TRUE synthetic and everything else just can't compete with the only TRUE synthetic. And now I've seen it all, a King James reference in one of your combative, "pure marketing gimmick" style of posts......TRUE Darryl
peedee Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 07:14:04	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: I have always felt that Steve posts UNbiased answers to questions posed on this site. He consistently supports other oils such as redline, royal purple and mobil. If you want proof, do your own search. He seems to do his best to be open and honest about the oil he represents and the oils of other companies. When he speaks negatively about a particular oil it is usually not the brand, but a particular grade withing a brand, and he recommends avoiding it for particular reasons. -If you want the proof, do your own search.- Given the seemingly unbiased approach used by Steve in his posts, I have to lend credit to his dissatisfaction with castrols marketing of clever names and "not true synthetics." His emphasis seems to be not so much on the oil itself, but on the misleading nature and contradiction of the names/terms.
the Mayor Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 08:53:18	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: Be it declared on this the twenty seventh day of July, in the year of our lord two thousand and four, that the city of Dodge honor the Mopar_Man by decree. His unsurpased ignorance, finely dictated perverse dialect, misunderstanding of the Kings english, desire to clad himself in baby diapers, mas tur bate over his little brothers bed, service the various farm animals, and have no friends shall serve as evidence enough to keep him forthright as the Village Idiot. His paranoia and relentless desire to cause havoc is evident of his inadequacy to be human and sensible. We hereby declare on this day aforementioned, that Mopar_Man is the best darn Village Idiot this side of Dodge. So Mr. Mopar_Man, it is with great pleasure that I say to you, get out of Dodge you freegin idiot and don't come back now! Hear?
IntenseDak39 GenIII 7/27/2004 09:05:44	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: LMAO!!! that was great! 6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 7/27/2004 09:11:44	Amsoil Dealer - Castrol Start Up Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: Used Oil Analysis (UOA) will tell you the true story of an oils ability to protect. The Virgin Oil Analysis (VOA) means very little, except to show the beginning make up of the base oil and additives. Real world performance is the key, and I have yet to see a UOA on Castrol's "gimmickery" Start-Up Oil. What is next from Castrol ... a "Drive Like A Granny Oil", for vehicles that are only driven to church on Sunday's and never over 40 mph? All this gimmickery marketing confuses the consumer about what is truely important about an oil. Sheeeeech ... Give me a break! __________________________________________________ For TRUE 100% Synthetic Oils and Lubricants, Click the following link and REQUEST A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG. __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
Town Hoe Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 09:27:45	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: OBoi, mi brudah mo paw mayn gon bee madd ayt youz! Hee don lyk bee mayd fun uv anna hee don lyke no peeple noin hee a pervert wid hees brudah anna his momma anna dos chycinz youz dun gon mayk hym cry anna tincl inna hees payntys cleen tu hees dyperr den momma gon hafta chayng hym anna kyss hees but ocs mi brudah don lyke peeple noin hee a ideeot anna hee begz daddy tu mayk luv tu hym inna hees but ocs cuz hee lyke tu feyl lyke daddyz lytl hoe cuz hee iz gel us dat ey iz daddyz hoe anna den hee gon mayk mee du hym widda brom inna hees but ocs wylst hee duz bayd thingz tu da chycinz
g-bye Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 09:49:59	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: Town Hoe I think you are in the wrong place. You should be in Boston at the Democratic Convention with Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and the other darkies that have been bought and paid for by the liberals.
mopar_man Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 18:16:23	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: Mayor, This is Dodge city and I am Matt Dillion.I am giving you till sundown to leave town or there is going to be trouble!
mopar_man Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 7/27/2004 18:29:18	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: I actually saw some castrol startup on the shelf at walmart today.I don't think it is synthetic or a blend.Although it does cost about a 1.10 more a qt than GTX.I think it is just GTX with some cheap additives.A good marketing scheme to increase profits if the consumer buys it.
q Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 8/06/2004 08:59:06	RE: Castrol start up IP: Logged Message: Where is the Castrol Shut Off Oil to protect the engine when we shut it off?
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