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jim spence
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2004
21:19:15
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 Subject: Did Amsoil lose?
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Find it very peculiar that the syn oil study has stopped dead in its tracks!
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racerX
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2004
03:33:10
| RE: Did Amsoil lose?
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why don't you go around bashing royal purple, redline, castrol syntec, mobil 1 synthetics, or any other synthetic oil out there too? let it go already.
goddamn, this amsoil bashing trend is getting friggin old. if you don't like the stuff, or don't believe its benifits, don't use it. and while you're at it, shut your mouth.
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unsure
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2004
03:41:14
| RE: Did Amsoil lose?
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Jim spence
Don't know. I've been going back to the site every so often, but they have not updated it as far as the study. They probably stopped it due to TBN being so low. I'm running amsoil now, but I will switch to Mobil 1 next change due to price and changing every 5k-6k to keep warranty.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
 
7/22/2004
06:59:35
|  Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com = Amzoil
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The test has not stopped. If you read the entire page you will see his comments that the mileage will build up slower over the Summer due to the fact he sometimes rides his motorcycle.
Scheeeeesh .... You had to get really creative and dig deep for that flame.
Amsoil has not lost any contest. many feel that they are running the wrong Amsoil formulation in that engine. As I have said before, not all oils are the same.
Amsoil Synthetic Oils will increase in viscocity slightly as the mileage increases -- as with many quality synthetics. To date, Amsoil has thickened from 66.2 to 71.6, and this is an increase of 8% and is well within the 20% +/- viscosity guidelines. Amsoil is now a low "40 wt." which does not concern me at all.
All oils will either thicken or thin over time.
Redline thins a lot and some Mobil1 oils thin slightly.
Better to have an oil that thickens than thins.
Metals present using Amsoil are FAR LESS than Mobil1.
Rather than me comment regarding this test.I know that you visit the website BITOG, and one of the greatest guys on that site has been in the oil business for 25 years and is an Amsoil Dealer --- "Too Slick". Here is his quote:
"This oil is still in very good shape, as the total solids level of 0.3% and small increase in viscosity would indicate. If you sent a sample to a lab that performs the "ASTM D-4739" test protocol correctly, you'd see the actual TBN is more like 4.5 to 5.5. From personal experience, this oil will thicken up by 15% to 20% before the TBN bottoms out and wear rates start to increase.
The main/rod and cam bearing wear is still very well controlled, which would indicate significant TBN reserve and no problem with corrosion of softer metals.
Reviewing the other data, wear rates of ALL metals are lower and valvetrain/cylinder wear is 54% lower than with the Mobil 1, 5w-30. Since these are the parts that function under the highest loads, it's where you'd expect to see qualitative differences in wear protection. Switch back to Mobil 1 again after this test and you'd see valvetrain wear go back up significantly - mainly due to the lower viscosity and less than optimum level of ZDDP.
I'd change the filter after six months; top off the crankcase and keep running the test. I see no cause for concern at this point...."
"As I've pointed out on numerous occasions before this test started, the Blackstone method for determining TBN is simply not accurate. After 2000 miles, they got a TBN of 5.1 for this batch of oil, which is way off the mark. If you took these TBN's for the used samples and doubled the results, you'd get closer to what the ASTM D-4739 method used by other labs would yield. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the TBN go back up slightly with the next sample, since there is some variation in this test.
I should add that for these Vortec V-8 and V-6 applications, I believe the "Series 3000", 5w-30 is going to give you the longest drain intervals of any Amsoil formulation. Drain intervals in these V-8 engine applications are normally limited by fuel contamination and nitration and the "diesel formulated" lubes just seem to do better here. Not meant as an excuse, but simply a recommendation based on quite a bit of experience testing Amsoil over the past decade ....I'd expect the "HDD" formulation to last perhaps 25% longer in this motor than "ASL" ....",
Too Slick
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To date my only concern with the Amsoil 5w-30 in that engine, and in that test, is the low TBN. TBN = the Total Base Number. This is a measure of acid-combatting additives.
However, I think there may be a culprit. The only time that I have ever seen TBN fall that fast and that far was with coolant or gasoline contamination. Perhaps it is time for an engine "check=up" or "tune-up" since that engine is approximately 40k miles.
For the record: My latest oil analysis (using the same oil) showed my TBN to be 6.4 after 6000 miles/six months of HARSH winter driving --- so that is why I questioned the TBN results. My office associate ran this same Amsoil 5w-30 for 12,000 miles/1 year in his Durango and the TBN was 7.2, also during the winter months.
Time will tell if it is the oil ... or someting else.
__________________________________________________
NOW --- the difference in wear rates between Amsoil and Mobil1 is statistically significant, with Amsoil showing significantly less valvetrain and piston/cylinder wear. Note the improved protection with regards to piston scuffing, with an Aluminum level of only 2, vs. an Aluminum level of 5 for Mobil1. Iron levels are also significantly lower with Amsoil vs. Mobil1.
IMHO, Amsoil offers better protection to the bearings.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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jim spence
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2004
14:49:53
| RE: Did Amsoil lose?
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Relax amsoil person. Sarted following this when someone posted about it. Besides, two points: study guy still said his sample would be taken the end of June and number two I read the whole report so far and mobil 1 did really good after the engine was broken in.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
7/22/2004
15:17:06
|  Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com = Amzoil
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My initial concern was the dramatic fall in Amsoil's TBN #'s.
SPECIAL NOTE .....
*** The flaw is the report is that they changed the TBN testing method ***
Here are some of Mobil1's TBN #'s using both the old meathod and new meathod:
Mobil1's TBN #'s
(old method) _ 7.5 _ 3.0 _ 5.0 _ 5.0 _ 4.0 _ 6.5
(new method) _ 2.5 _ 2.5 _ 2.4 _ 2.4 _ 1.9 _ 3.3
Therefore, it is evident that the new TBN testing meathod is giving a flawed report. Now you can see that Amsoil's low TBN #'s mean nothing (for now) ... because when comparing apples to apples, the TBN #'s between the two oils are similar.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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