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jb
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
10:33:38
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 Subject: atf +4
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did they reduce the price of the atf +4? I went to the dealer and picked up some on fri night and i was surprised to see it only cost 4.50 a quart vs the 7.50 is was last year. Anyone else notice this?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
4/12/2004
11:05:52
|  Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF = ATF +4 = Amsoil
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Perhaps it had something to do with the complaint:
FYI ---
(and read between the lines as to how D/C unfairly treats its customers)
__________________________________________________
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
ILMA: DaimlerChrysler Unfair to Independents
Reported in "LUBE REPORT"
Industry News from the highly respected Lubes-n-Greases Trade Magazine
Wednesday, November 19, 2003
By Tim Sullivan
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
The association said the automaker has blocked blenders from making and selling its ATF+4 fluid – which was adopted in 1999 and is now recommended for most Chrysler vehicles. In addition it accused the company of leveraging its monopoly on the transmission fluid to muscle motor oil sales away from lubricant companies.
“To Chrysler, this probably is another revenue stream for a product code,” Executive Director Celeste Powers said. “However, to ILMA members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists.”
Chrysler first advised dealers in October 1999 that it had begun factory filling certain vehicles with ATF+4 and that they should service those vehicles with the same fluid, instead of the previous fluid, ATF+3. Two years later, the company advised that ATF+4 should be used in all vehicles with automatic transmissions except minivans built before 2000.
The association’s complaint said that Lubrizol is the exclusive manufacturer of chemistry for ATF+4 and that DaimlerChrysler has contracted Petro-Canada and ChevronTexaco to supply the fluid. The complaint said ILMA members that marketed earlier versions of the fluid requested the ATF+4 formula from DaimlerChrysler but were turned down. Members also contacted Lubrizol, ChevronTexaco and Petro-Canada but were told that those companies’ contracts with the automaker prohibited them from sharing the formula or reselling the fluid.
According to the complaint, such practices violate provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits automakers from conditioning warranties on the use of named oils or parts unless the automaker provides them for free or demonstrates that available alternatives will not function adequately.
The association noted that other automakers avoid the problem by licensing products that meet their specifications. ILMA officials said DaimlerChrysler has made formulas and specifications for previous fluids available to blenders.
The association said it urged DaimlerChrysler a year ago to establish a licensing program for ATF+4 and has tried several times since then to engage the company in discussions. ILMA legal counsel Jeffrey L. Leiter said the association has received no response.
“We tried to work this out with them but they’ve ignored us at every step of the way,” he said.
DaimlerChrysler did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The complaint said DaimlerChrysler “has taken its anticompetitive actions… one step further ”by allowing dealers to buy bulk volumes of ATF+4 only in combination with bulk purchases of their own Mopar brand motor oil. Dealers that decline the offer incur greater costs to buy the transmission fluid in smaller volumes.
ILMA’s complaint asked the trade commission to investigate its allegations and to compel DaimlerChrysler to cease its practices. Officials acknowledged that the case does not involve a large amount of ATF+4, but said they are concerned about the possibility of other automakers imitating DaimlerChrysler’s actions.
“If Chrysler can get away with this, it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers, so ILMA had to take a stand,” Powers commented.
--------------------------------------------------
My Opinion: That is why ATF+4 is expensive and also why D/C Dealers push the Mopar brand of oil ... to obtain the bulk discount prices on the ATF+4.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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huh
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
13:41:24
| RE: atf +4
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The price of Scamsoil is twice what the dealer charges for +4 where I live.
Who's ripping who off?
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wtf
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
14:52:40
| RE: atf +4
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huh, i think you missed the point of the question and .. as you refer to Steve, "scamsoil's" reply. Never did the Amsoil guy try to sell his Amsoil ATF in his response.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
4/12/2004
15:20:19
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF = ATF +4 = Amsoil
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For the Record ...
Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Retail Pricing
(preferred customers receive discounted pricing of approximately 20%)
Product Codes - Quantity/Size - Retail Pricing
ATF-QT - (1) quart bottle ------------ $7.80
ATF-01 - (12) quart bottles --------- $92.40
ATF-TP - (1) 2 1/2-gallon bottle ---- $74.25
ATF-05 - (2) 2 1/2-gallon bottles - $146.50
ATF-30 - (1) 30-gallon drum ------- $689.00
ATF-55 - (1) 55-gallon drum ----- $1,181.00
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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mopar_man
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
17:11:13
| RE: atf +4
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is this an amsoil website or a dodge dakota site?i am sick of those long winded amsoil guy's posts why can't he ever just give a simple short reply instead of writing a novel.I read all the hoopla on this site about amsoil so out of curiousity i purchased some but my truck seemed to do much better on mobil 1.next oil change back to mobil 1.
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Dr.D
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
18:38:19
| RE: atf +4
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Message:
You can flame Steven all you want but I feel that he has done
more good than anyone has ever done at this website.
I just purchased my second Dodge Truck ( 98' RAM 2500 w/
Cummins Turbo Diesel ).
This truck has 55,000 original miles and thanks to Steven I am
now using the best diesel oil (and tranny fluid) that money can
buy !
Keep us informed Steven !!
Dr. D
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Ms. Scooter
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
19:07:58
| RE: atf +4
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You go Steve!!! : )
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Wal
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
21:54:19
| RE: atf +4
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you can say he's helped a ton of people, but with all the advertising I just groan and quickly scroll past. Some threads I totally ignore because I see him post 100000000000000000 lines each time. It's like a chiropractor commercial. Amsoil wasn't mentioned in this thread, but it's yet another thread littered with amsoil propoganda I don't need or want.
Sorry, but it's my opinion, no matter how wrong I might be :-) At least I have the cojones to show my name and email address though.
Wal
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
4/12/2004
22:25:00
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF = ATF +4 = Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
In my own defense, I posted an article detailing that The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (the ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (the FTC), accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
I do not know why DC lowered it's price on their ATF +4 ... but maybe it was in response to the complaint.
At no time did I post an advertisement or try to convert "jb" to Amsoil ATF.
Yes, sometimes my posts are a bit long. A lot of what I have to say requires an explanation ... and not just a short answer.
If you find it informative and useful ... read it.
If not ... feel free to scroll past my comments.
Thank you for your time!
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
23:22:29
| RE: atf +4
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I paid 14.70 a gallon at my local dealer.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2004
05:05:22
| RE: atf +4
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If DC didn't screw all of us for so long on the outrageous ATF+4 price, they might not have lost customers to Amsoil.
I switched to Amsoil Universal ATF, over a year ago, since the "stealer" wanted $7.50/qt for ATF+4. At that time Amsoil ATF was only $5.XX/qt when purchased in a 5 gallon case. Flushed the trans and power steering and still have a couple of quarts left in the jug.
Some Dodge parts departments have a higher profit margin than others. Chris said he got ATF+4 for $14.70/gal while jb paid $4.50/qt.
I called a dealership parts department and was quoted on some seals, $5 (x2), $6 (x2) and $12 for the seals about $35 total. Later that week I called a dealership parts department closer to my house and they quoted $11 (x2), $13 (x2) and $19 for the seals about $70 total, almost twice the price of the other dealer. When I asked why the seals were much more expensive than what I was quoted at the other dealer they said something about a higher profit margin for this area of town and proceeded to lower the price to $30 total.
Hmmmmmm,,,, did they want to keep my business or keep my mouth shut about thier outrageous prices?
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mopar_man
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2004
06:19:33
| RE: atf +4
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Message:
we constantly read these endless posts about how great amsoil is.I would like to see some independant testing on amsoil i am sure all the test results we see posted here are amsoils own tests and the results could easily be altered.
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Dr.D
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2004
07:15:51
| RE: atf +4
IP: Logged
Message:
All AMSOIL testing is done by an idependant lab (says so on their
bottle) and I am sure that a 30 year old company like AMSOIL
doesn't need to fabricate a bunch of lies.
I never believed anything that AMSOIL claimed I just tried it for
myself and I have never looked back.
AMSOIL is by far the best product I have ever used and I don't
know why others won't even try it ?
Dr. D
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BigBlueQC
GenIII
4/13/2004
08:23:20
| RE: atf +4
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Message:
For all the non-believers, I have lots of oil analysis tests for oil, trans, power steering, diffs. Good or bad, the results are always honest. AMSOIL has proven everything they claim, maybe the flamers just refuse to educate themselves. Too bad.
2002 QC 4x4 Sport Plus, 4.7L, auto, Patriot Blue, Tire & Handling group,
Heavy Duty Service group, Leer cap w/out windows, Mopar Step bars and roof rack, Rhino liner in bed and on step bars, Pace Edwards Power Tailgate lock
3.55 rear, 4-wheel anti-lock brakes, all possible fluids are AMSOIL
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JES
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2004
09:18:18
| RE: atf +4
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Message:
Went to the dealership a few months ago for ATF+4. They quoted me a list price of $34.50 a gallon. I asked them what their 'preferred' price was and got the fluid for $17.50 a gallon. What a riot!!!!
Eric -- http://photos.yahoo.com/jes_96
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Dr.D
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2004
22:26:50
|  RE: atf +4
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oops !
Let me correct my spelling in the above post .......
All AMSOIL testing is done by an independant lab (says so on
their bottle) and I am sure that a 30 year old company like
AMSOIL doesn't need to fabricate a bunch of lies.
I never believed anything that AMSOIL claimed I just tried it for
myself and I have never looked back.
AMSOIL is by far the best product I have ever used and I don't
know why others won't even try it ?
Dr. D
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