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eddy
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
17:43:03
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 Subject: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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Im starting to think Im gonna have to learn to live with the fact that my steering wheel will ALWAYS vibrate for one reason or another no matter what I do. They just now replaced the rotors to stop the vibration while braking, and now I have a new vibration while cruising that normally shows up right at about 70mph then stops once I go over 80.
I guess it's back to the stealership again so they can tell me it's all in my head. Kind of depressing when you work and save to get a vehicle and then in under 10 thousand miles its driving less smoothly than the 8 year old, 107 thousand mile beater Ford you traded for it. I suppose Whiplash will stop by now to tell me it must be my fault cause I grip the steering wheel too forcefully or something.
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WipLash
R/T
4/02/2004
19:14:04
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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Eddy,
Congradulations.....
You are the first person with a legitimate gripe on this forum. I'm not joking. This is a real problem and you are the first person to address it. I never did because no one listens to me anyway.
You are probably right about having to deal with it because I don't think you will get rid of it. All of the Daks I've owned since 1999 have had severe feed back through the steering wheel. There is a reason for the Dak having more feed back than the Ford. Bad design....
The 2003 and older f150's including the Lightning still have a steering gear box. The box transmits half the amount of road bumps back through the wheel than the Rack-n-Pinion setup the Dakota has, but that isn't the problem.
There is a problem with the design of the Gen3 Dakota. When they redesigned the front end so that both the 4wd and 2wd trucks would accomadate a rack-n-pinion (4wds used to have boxes) they changed the steering geometry to a less than optimal design. I've noticed that since this design change there is about twice as much feed-back (bump steer) through the wheel than there was before (my 92,93, and 94 had no bump steer). Back when the 4wd Daks had a steering gear box and the 2wd's had racks, both had a lot less bump-steer.
Bump steer is a severe problem. All those forces from the wheel bouncing over bumps gets transmitted back through the rack and the steering and it will cause the tie rods, racks, and steering columns to wear out faster than they should. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it. Hopefully, they addressed these design flaws in the 2005 dak.
When I was building race cars I had to make design changes to the Chevy front ends to reduce bump steer. It's real simple actually. There is a center line that goes through the steering knuckle and the control arm bushings. The inner and outer tie rods have to be parrallel to this center line. If they aren't several things happen. If one tire goes up and the other goes down the steering wheel will turn. In a race car, this will cause you to wreck. In a passenger car it will just get on your nerves. This is quite possibly the largest design flaw the Dakota has and having had the experience of designing front ends myself it really gripes me that Dodge didn't do a better job on the Dakota's front end design.
Come on with all the flames. I'm used to it.
Come tell me I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. I only worked on Late Model front ends for 5 years. I've spent 100's and possibly thousands of hours trying to master the art of eliminating bump steer. It was a compulsion more than a hobby and I don't care to go back there.
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Good Job
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
22:26:25
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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These are two of the best back to back posts I`ve seen. Sorry about your problems eddy, but your post made me laugh. Very good answer Wiplash!
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02qc driver
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
23:35:01
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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vibration at 70-80 could also be as simple as the tires being out of balance. bump steer usually will rear its ugly head at any speed, but wheel balance problems only when the speed is high enough for the imbalance to be really noticeable (ie highway speeds). if the dealer cant find a problem, try getting the tires balanced.
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wow
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
23:45:41
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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not only is 'lash a critic of many, but now he professes knowledge as an engineer despite the fact that everytime he pounds his board he demonstrates less knowledge of automotive mechanics then my neihbors dog has.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
23:58:51
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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'Scuse me, I gotta go out and hug my '89.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
4/03/2004
00:00:28
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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Yeah, like he said. Losing a single weight on the rim can cause a vibration between certain speeds. If it's felt more in the wheel, it's up front. If your a$$ shakes more than the wheel in your hand then it's the rear. It's worth having the tires checked for balancing and while the wheels are on the balancer they can watch them go round and see if there's any problems like one being out of round, etc.
I have 15K miles and still no vibration in my 4X4. 80 MPH on the highway feels slow in this truck. Even with my trailer attached.
Maybe I'm lucky. I hope it stays that way!
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eddy
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
02:23:11
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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GOOD JOB... no problem, no offense taken. Life ain't worth living if you can't make light of these annoyances.
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eddy
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
10:28:29
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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Well just got back from the stealership again.
First off, at first they wanted me to leave the truck, I said no can do, had to threaten to talk to the supervisor before they let me bring it in to get worked on while I waited.
I went in and told them I wanted my wheels balanced, didn't mention symptoms of any kind, just said balance the wheels. Told them I was'nt interested in wasting my time or theirs having them test drive my truck, as when they drive my truck their techs always take a see no evil, hear no evil kind of attitude towards the problem. OF course they insisted on testing it, saying 'we cant just throw parts at it or waste labor on it without a test drive.
So of course tech drives it, comes back, and says it drove fine for him. I just stand there with my jaw dropped asking "are you really gonna send me away without fixing my problem a SECOND TIME?" He sees by the look on my face and by the fact that I had to go there twice before they'd replace my rotors that Im not happy at all with that answer, so he offers to take another ride.
We get up to highway speed and just like before when it was rotors, I look over and see the steering wheel vibrate visibly, this time from a different cause, and I tell him to concentrate super hard cause Im looking at the goddamn wheel and I can see it from where I'm sitting.
Finally he admits it's there then starts giving me this speech about how Chrysler's only gonna keep fixing my vibration problems up to a point, then they're gonna have to stop throwing fixes at it and ask if there's anything more that they could even really do. I tell him the first problem was DOCUMENTED to be caused by badly warped rotors after I fought to get the tech to replace the fronts. And that now the same symptom was happening again being caused by a different problem, so it's not like I'm the bitchy customer coming in for the same problem over and over again that nobody can figure out. Same symptom, but at different times and with two different causes. It's not my fault their goddam truck developed two different problems that caused my wheel to vibrate within 3 thousand miles of eachother.And furthermore, when Chrysler says they want to stop fixing my truck is when the real problems will begin, not when they will end.
Then he has the balls to tell me the vibration's at 70, and to test it at 70 theyd be braking the law, and even if the district manager came down and tested it he would refuse to drive over 55. And so according to him they'd be perfectly within their rights to test drive it up to 55 only and do nothing if they felt no vibration at that speed. And what did I really want anyway? There was only so much they could do, their hands are tied, blah blah blah. And I just told him I did not give a damn about anything else except I want a 25 thousand dollar 6 month old truck to drive like a 25 thousand dollar six month old truck, not worse than my 107 thousand mile 8 year old Ranger, which I feel guiltier for trading in all the time now.
So finally, we get back, and hes telling me because he wants me to be happy he'll see what he can do for me. So while he takes the truck back up on the lift I mosey on over to the sales floor and pull the manager aside. And I tell him as calmly as I can that I did not pay 25 grand for a brand new truck so that my service department could act like they're doing me a favor every time they fix my truck under warranty. Furthermore, I had yet to fill out my CSI survey, and so far things weren't looking good for them.
He immediately took a walk back to the service department, came back out within 5 minutes, and told me the problem had been found and was being fixed. So the tech comes back out and his attitude has taken a full 360 and now he's making excuses about how difficult vibrations can be to diagnose and how he has to deal with people with unrealistic expectations all the time, so he can't just throw one fix after another at a problem. So we take a drive and voila, vibration gone. And what was the cause? All four wheels out of balance. Now of course they wasted more of their own time test driving it after I asked them not to than if they had simply checked and balanced the wheels like I told them too, but Oh well. I still think they're getting slammed on the CSI.
I really am glad I waited to fill the thing out.
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eddy
Dodge Dakota
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4/27/2004
14:06:26
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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Update:
Vibration came back over next couple hundred miles. Took it right back to the dealer and told them I wanted it fixed. This time rather than trying to dick me around with any bs about how they couldnt replicate the problem, they balanced the tires once again. I still felt the vibes in the steering wheel VERY slightly on the way home and thought about going back, but had to get to work. But then over the last couple days the vibration has become less and less noticable and now is almost completely gone. Now Im wondering if maybe I had a high spot o n the tires that's now wearing even now that they're balanced correctly?
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JES
Dodge Dakota
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4/27/2004
14:52:55
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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I also had similar problems with a dealership diagnosing a problem. Spoke the truth on the survey and the dealership suggested that, if I was that dissatisfied, I should go elsewhere. I no longer take my truck to the dealership. I either fix it myself or take it to a private mechanic. The dealership is just not worth the hassle.
Eric -- http://photos.yahoo.com/jes_96
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xmr
GenIII
4/28/2004
10:33:44
| RE: 24KDak vibrates more than 1700$ Ford
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The problem is the crappy tires that come on new trucks. Since I replaced my original goodyear tires with Michelin's I have had no tire problems. I am at 140,000 miles and am only on my second set of tires.
'98 cc auto /Home brew cold air with K&N,Dynomax, Superchip Tuner, 1.7 RR,, F&B tb. NAPA cap and rotor, 3923 plugs,tps mod,relocated iat, 180 t'stat, Crankshaft sensor mod.,PVI
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