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Dakota98
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2004
09:20:09
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 Subject: flush, and sludge
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i just have a question regarding this sludge and flushing. People say that in order to prevent sludge, they flush every time or every other time they change their oil. What is the process of "flushing" ???
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/23/2004
09:41:44
|  Amsoil -- Re: flush, and sludge
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Flushing too often may do more harm than good ...
... especially if you use too harsh a product.
Typically, you could flush your engine every 25k or 50k miles to keep the internals clean --- but certainly not every oil change. You should also flush if you noticed a problem ... or if you were switching from conventional petroleum to synthetic oil.
Note: There are no special requirements for switching from conventional petroleum to synthetic oil, however in older vehicles or those with high mileage, it may be advisable to use Engine Flush first. This will ensure that the engine is clean and free of any accumulated contaminants which might have an effect on the service life of Synthetic Motor Oils.
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Amsoil has an Engine Flush, but I am posting here to PERHAPS offer you an alternative. It's name is Auto-Rx, (and no - I do not sell this product). It is vegetable based and it does not affect chemistry or viscosity at all.
It is NOT an Additive but a engine cleaner that really works. It has a residual effect because it cleans the rings and valve seats and valve guide seals so well. Lasts 10000 miles or so in a gasoline engine.
Should you be concerned about seals? This product will simply clean the abrasive deposits that keep the seal from functioning normally. I've also talked to guys that have run tests and they say it doesn't damage anything.
I know another guy that told me he used it in an older engine with a noticable oil pan gasket leak and it almost stopped the leakage after 500 miles. He also stated that it also helped his noisy lifters and cleaned off baked on varnish.
This is not a recommendation, just looking to offer a "safe" alternative for Dakota owners that would prefer to flush their engines and keep the internals clean, or prior to switching to synthetic oil.
You can check out their website at Auto-Rx
Follow the instructions religiously.
__________________________________________________
Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Dakota98
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2004
10:05:15
|  RE: flush, and sludge
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just so i understand,
all u do is ADD that additive into ur oil, and do the proper steps ?? and that is all u do to "flush" ?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/23/2004
11:37:48
| RE: flush, and sludge
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Dakota98,
Visit the Auto-Rx website and read the FAQ (Frequently
Asked Questions) section.
If you have additional questions let me know.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Justi
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2004
11:51:49
| RE: flush, and sludge
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Steven, here's a Q&A straight from their FAQ..
"Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely effect my seals. Does Auto-Rx help?
A: We believe that high mileage engines that use synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil, weaken the seal material and it loses it's pliability. The website application does state use any oil you want after the leak is stopped and you're welcome to do so. In e-mails to people who have rear main oil seal leaks and want to use Auto-Rx to try and stop them, we tell them to use non-synthetic oil to firm up the seal material after Auto-Rx has cleansed it, as chemistry in non-synthetic oil makes seals harden just right to effect a tight seal.
I question why anyone would want to go back to a chemistry that will start the process of seal material degradation all over again. A way around this problem is to use 3 ounces of Auto-Rx with each oil change after rear main seal leak is stopped. Now you are protecting seal degradation and can use synthetic, semi-synthetic, or high mileage oil without creating a new leak problem."
My question Steven is that IF this is true, it shoots down the very product you sell. I really don't know what to believe when it comes to what is the best oil for my engine, but I have directly conflicting reports here and figured you'd be a good one to ask...
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bemoore
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2004
11:55:10
| RE: flush, and sludge
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when they say flush every time it may be that they drain the oil fill it back up start it then drain it a 2nd time i know a few people that do that
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bemoore
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2004
11:55:53
| RE: flush, and sludge
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when they say flush every time it may be that they drain the oil fill it back up start it then drain it a 2nd time i know a few people that do that
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timberwolf
GenIII
2/23/2004
12:11:38
| RE: flush, and sludge
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People could be meaning two different things when they are referring to an engine flush. The first it the stuff made by Gunk called engine flush (other manufacturers make similar products). You add a quart of it to your oil right before you change it and run the engine for 5 min and drain it out. This product costs about $3/quart, but contains petroleum distilates that can break down seals over time. If you are going to do this, you may as well use kerosene. It's similar in makeup and it's cheaper. The other flush is a machine that the oil change place or dealer can hook up to your engine with all oil removed and circulate a cleaning solution through the engine. This is rather expensive and can run $75 - $150 to do, but is not supposed to break down seals. I have no idea what's in this stuff. I doubt this is what people are talking about when they say they do it every change. You only need to do it about once a year to keep sludge deposits down.
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timberwolf
GenIII
2/23/2004
12:14:15
| RE: flush, and sludge
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Oh, I forgot to mention. If you use synthetic oil, you will decrease the chances of sludge buildup because synthetic oil can hold more contaminents and it has a higher threashold for thermal damage, which are two of the leading causes of sludge.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/23/2004
15:42:26
| Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil, Lubricants, Filters
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Justi,
They are commenting on high mileage engines that already have rear main seal leak, and the customer is using Auto-Rx to correct the problem.
Here is what you have seen me post previously:
"Q. I sometimes hear "Synthetic oils contain detergents that can make the oil seals leak in older cars." Is this really an issue? How old would a car have to be to not use synthetics?
A. Synthetic lubricants do have an inherent detergency that cleans and removes conventional motor oil deposits left over in an engine. However, all motor oils are designed to help swell seals slightly to prevent leakage. The only time you would observe seal leakage is if the seals are already damaged or showing signs of leakage around them. As long as the vehicle has been well maintained, and in good mechanical condition, it can be switched to a synthetic lubricant at any mileage."
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Repo Man
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2005
19:58:12
| RE: flush, and sludge
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I have had a simple oil flush done at Mr. Lube during a routine oil change. It might just be waste of money. They drain the oil, poor in a bottle of some cleaning agent and wait for it to work through the engine (maybe 3-5 minutes). Then they simply put on the oil filter and top the engine up with oil. I do not see how this works and have since stopped. The dealership wants to remove my engine pan, clean it out, run a fluid through my engine then top it up again. This does cost some $ but I think its a good idea. I had a flush done to my transmission last year. The pan was removed, metal shavings were cleaned away from the magnet in the pan and pan was wiped clean. Transmission cleaning fluid was run through the engine. Pan was returned with a new gasget. Then topped up with tran fluid. I have been told that this is a great thing to have done in order to prolong the life of the transmission as the metal particles in the fluid will cause damage. I figure this is the same with the oil fluid so a real flush at the dealership or garage might be on my list soon.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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3/31/2005
06:24:40
| RE: flush, and sludge
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I have mentioned this several times before. Pepboys offers an engine flush service. They use a machine from bilstein. They pump in warm cleaning solution at 42PSI into the oil filter port and vaccuum it out the pan. I paid $80 for it, it also includes a proline (pepboys brand) oil change. You can request they use different filter and/or oil for an additional cost. Their top-of-the-line would be royal purple oil synthetic. I don't know if they would use an oil/filter that you bring.
Other shops offer similar services.
Here's a good link showing the bilstein machine.
http://www.redwoodgeneral.com/flush.htm
This flush was what had the greatest impact to returning my gas milage to normal - from 13 to 16. Switching to synthetics got me up to 17. I have a 95 CC 4x4 3.9L auto with 152k miles.
- Dan M
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Wade
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2005
00:51:23
| RE: flush, and sludge
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I go to Jiffy Lube every year after hunting season and have they're "flush" done. They say they do it w/ zero weight hot oil for 5 minutes through the engine. I have a 2002 4.7 QC and ran welfare synthetic since day one and done this flush yearly and have never seen a trace of sludge. Don't know if it is the synthetic, the oil change every 2500 miles, or the flush, but no sludge yet.
CHEERS
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