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07:14:48 - 11/17/2024
General Dakota Board
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
01:19:59
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 Subject: switching to synthetic oil ??
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i am ready to switch to synthetic oil, and possibly synthetic tranny fluid. i will be going with Amsoil. that much i know. i know nothing else. ie, can i just switch from standard to synthetic oils and fluids? anything i need to know about switching?
also, since i am not a d.i.y. oil changer, can i take my own amsoil oil/filter to an oil change place, or do they generally only use their own stock of products?
i was just going to email our friendly local Amsoil sponsor dude from the forum here, but though maybe others would benefit from a public reply to these types of questions. :)
thanks,
jeff
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Mudlizard
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
14:48:20
|  RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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Jeff: Yes you can take your own oil to a quick lube place and they will do it for you. Usually you can get about a 4$ discount for your own oil. Not much but it helps.
You can switch from standard to syn any time you want. And if the syn gets to expensive, you can go back to standard oil. No big deal. You do not have to do anything special to change over.
Definately if you go to a quick lube joint ask them to do an extended drain and watch them. The idea being they are on a crunch to get cars in and out. The guy on the bottom side probably doesnt care if all the oil gets out of YOUR car or not. They can take a few extra minutes to let it get a good full drain. Bend down and watch whats going on underneath. Hope this help'd.
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Amsoilsponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/01/2004
15:39:33
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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Jeff,
I am about to watch the SuperBowl Pregame Show.
I will get back to you ASAP with lots of info.
For starters:
The local Oil Change Outlet in my neighborhood charges $19.95 for their basic oil change ... Non-Synthetic (something out of a tube) ... with a 15 point check-up and a free car wash.
The same Oil Change Outlet will offer you Castrol FAKE Synthetic for $24.95 ... if you ask for synthetic. I tried this just as a test ... and they offered me FAKE Synthetic Castrol ... prior to me bringing out my Amsoil and educating them.
The same Oil Change Outlet charges a whopping $42.95 for Mobil1 and the same "freebies".
I visit the same Oil Change Outlet and bring my own Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil. They charge me $13.95 ($1 less per quart of oil they don't have to use) ... as a "Service Fee" since I am providing my own oil. BOTTOM LINE --- I get my oil changed with the free 15 point check up and free car wash --- for less than the $42.95 they charge for Mobil1.
A Win Win for me !!!
Better Synthetic Oil (Amsoil vs. Mobil1) at a cheaper price !!!
__________________________________________________
Want to do the same ????
Click the following link to request a FREE Amsoil Catalog:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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oyotaco
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2004
11:21:05
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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ok, i am not an amsoil rep so i am sure i will get flak on this, but if you have high miles, i wouldnt do it. I would stick with the conventional oil. I have been around all the different oils, and i have worked in engine shops building racing motors, the synthetic may prove positive from the begining, but if you have been using conventional oil for a long time, i wouldnt see any advantages. but that is just my opinion. i am sure the amsoil guy will try to talk me out of it.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/02/2004
11:51:12
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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When anyone has ever asked me to compare Amsoil vs "______", I make every attempt to be fair and unbiased. I have recommended Mobil1 to those that still believe they should change their oil every 3k miles. Note: Mobil1 is a very good oil, however in some engines it does not do very well because of it's thinner nature. I have also recommended Castrol Syntec (a PRETEND SYNTHETIC --a hydrocracked conventional petroleum "dino" base oil - and NOT a true synthetic) to those that still believe that synthetics are bad.
Most of the PRETEND Synthetics use a Group III base oil. A 100% TRUE Synthetic Oil uses either the Group IV or Group V base oil, or a mix of the two, plus their own unique additives package. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the TRUE synthetics use all of one, they mix a combination of both. Group IV is PAOs (Polyalfaolefins) while Group IV is the esters.
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Let's put to bed some of the objections you will hear concerning the use of synthetic engine lubricants (some are old debates ... some are new): (Your concern is answered in Myth #10)
Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize. Ultimately it is the additive mix in the oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.
Myth #2: Synthetics are too thin to stay in the engine
Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness"). For example, it makes no difference whether it is 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) that oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.
Myth #3: Synthetics cause cars to use more oil
Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended to use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)
Myth #4: Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum
Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used untested ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synthetic lubricants to suffer a bad reputation. Fortunately, those days are long gone. Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.
Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge
Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperatures and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum base stocks begin to react with each other, forming sludge, gums and varnishes. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital engine protection. Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow to critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy. Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.
Myth #6: Synthetics can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors
Untrue. In fact the very low ash content of synthetics will extend the life of every exhaust system component.
Myth #7: Synthetics void warranties
Untrue. No major manufacturer of automobiles specifically bans the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on the showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill. Which may not make the dealers too happy since oil changes usually lead to other service work.
Myth #8: Synthetics last forever
Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic base stocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic motor oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non synthetics. Amsoil's unique additives packages allow for extended drain intervals.
Myth #9: Synthetics are too expensive
Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine lubricants more economical than conventional non synthetics. In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.
Myth #10: Synthetic oils contain detergents that can make the oil seals leak in older cars
Synthetic lubricants do have an inherent detergency that cleans and removes conventional motor oil deposits left over in an engine. However, motor oils are designed to help swell seals slightly to prevent leakage. The only time you would observe seal leakage is if the seals are already damaged or showing signs of leakage around them. As long as the vehicle has been well maintained, and in good mechanical condition, it can be switched to a synthetic lubricant at any mileage.
__________________________________________________
There are other MYTHS and non-truths circulating the forums, garages, and race tracks. The nine above are just a few that I wanted to address.
Conclusions
Since their inception, manufacturers of synthetic motor oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. As was the case with microwave ovens or electric lights, a highly technological improvement must often overcome a fair amount of public skepticism and consumer inertia before it is embraced by the general population. But the word has been getting out as a growing number of motorists worldwide experience the benefits of synthetic lubrication. The wave of the future, in automobile lubrication, is here, and Amsoil has lead the march, recently celebrating their 30th year in business. For the environmental enthusiasts, the use of synthetics could reduce waste oil disposal by 80%, so if environment is your thing, then synthetic lubricants should be your choice.
--------------------------------------------------
Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/02/2004
12:09:51
| switching to synthetic oil - seal compatibility
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Additional Information -- Seal Compatibility
AMSOIL lubricants are all tested for seal compatibility with all the seal materials in use with industry accepted testing methods. AMSOIL Products will not damage seals or be more prone to leaking than petroleum products when used in vehicles with undamaged seals. Unfortunately, high mileage vehicles and equipment that have been using petroleum lubricants for long periods of time face the risk that sludge and deposits have built up in the engine and created a false seal, and the seal itself has dried out and cracked or shrunk. Lubricants help condition seals, keeping them supple and slightly swelled to insure a proper seal with no leaks. When covered with sludge or deposits, the seal will deteriorate. Now you start using AMSOIL motor oil with it’s high quality additive package and natural detergency, and you start to clean up the engine. The false seal is cleaned away, and if the seal itself has become cracked or damaged, a leak will develop. The same thing occurs in transmissions and differentials. Because of this, many people think that synthetic oil is more prone to leaking, when all it really is doing is revealing the problem that petroleum oil deposits had created and kept hidden. Once the damaged seals are properly replaced, keep using the synthetic oil and they won’t leak again.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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New Dak owner
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2004
00:52:02
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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I just got a 99 V6 3.9L 4X4 Ext cab. I was thinking of changing tras fluid, and oil to AMSOIL. IT has 100,000 on it is the mileage any thing to worrie about. also if you have other oil/lub products that I can use let me know PLEASE! I just ordered a catalog it shold be in the mail. Thanks
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Gilberttribe
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2004
12:30:00
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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It has been my experience with one vehicle that switching to synthetic from conventional oil after 102K miles "caused" a slight oil leak. It could have been a coincidence, but it happened shortly after the switch with no prior problems. I have read this is possible because of the additional detergents in synthetic oil can clean areas where the seal has broken down, but sludge from the old oil was filling. I'm not convinced this is entirely accurate, but it makes some sense. I won't have this problem in the future because I only use synthetics (Mobil 1 and Amsoil).
AmsoilSponsor, thank you for the useful information you post and thank you for the sponsoring this site. However, I don't think anyone here buys your non-biased assertions any more than I do. Your statement, "I have recommended Mobil1 to those that still believe they should change their oil every 3k miles" doesn't really support you assertion and doesn't really make sense. The reason it doesn't make sense is because you and I both known synthetic oil, except under extreme conditions, is a waste of money if you plan to change your oil every 3000 miles. Almost any oil performs adequately for 3000 miles under most conditions.
My point is that you are not unbiased, so you shouldn't state that you are. I think you should admit you are biased, but you have good reason to be because you sell a good oil.
If you were really unbiased, you would point people to Bob's site and educate them about how to use the information there.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/03/2004
13:04:26
|  Switching to synthetic oil ?? Amsoil !!
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Gilberttribe,
In general and in agreement with your comments, --- any seal leakage when switching from conventional "dino" to synthetic in higher mileage vehicles is usually due to the fact that the seals were already damaged and simply filled with "crud". True - the detergency in synthetics cleaned the sludge --- and the problem (which already existed) becomes evident. This is mostly in older vehicles since seal materials are better in modern engines.
I feel that Amsoil XL7500 and Castrol are two of the best hydrocracked synthetic oils available and have recommended Castrol to those who prefer to not use synthetic oil --- and are looking for a "low price" --- since Castrol is under $3 a quart.
If a consumer wants synthetic oil and price and easy access (on-the-shelf) are primary concerns - or the consumer is still insisting upon 3k oil change intervals - I have recommended Mobil1. I feel strongly about the use of synthetics - period. My family has been know to keep trucks for 15-20 years or more --- and we might not notice the difference in the first 100k miles (dino vs. synthetic) --- but we certainly would for the second and third 100k miles.
I recommend Bob's Oil Site via email to many people --- just not in my posts. The only links that I have ever provided in my posts are for Auto-Rx (IMHO a better engine flush than Amsoil's) and FTC complaints for "snake oils".
You are somewhat correct in saying that I am biased --- but since I also recommend Auto-Rx (as an alternative to Amsoil Engine Flush), perhaps you can also draw the conclusion that I am open-minded.
If you have read my posts --- you will note that I am very clear in my explanation of "Extended Drains" ( 2-3 x manufacturers recommendations --- unless the customer performs Used Oil Analysis to determine his or her own ability to extend drain intervals further ) --- unlike some other overzealous Amsoil Dealers.
Thanks for (sorta) saying that I represent a quality company, a quality product ... and "sell a good oil".
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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New Dak owner
Dodge Dakota
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2/05/2004
22:28:41
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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So I may start leaking if I change?? How bout Tranny and transfer case?
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TONYT
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2004
13:21:48
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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You go by the name new dak owner. If your dak is new you can switch at any time. In a truck that has been serviced well you can switch at any time. Most cars are coming factory fill synthetics now.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/07/2004
13:34:50
| switch to synthetic oil --- Amsoil
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New Engines or Rebuilt Engines
Regarding the use of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils in brand new or rebuilt engines, it is recommended, however not mandatory, that the motor be initially operated with petroleum oil up to its first normal drain interval. The advantages of doing this are as follows.
New engines or engine components generate high wear metals to begin with and may contain debris from machining and assembly. It is more beneficial to allow these wear metals to collect in an inexpensive motor oil than to circulate throughout the crankcase for extended periods in a synthetic motor oil. By operating the vehicle to its first drain interval with a petroleum oil, these wear metals and manufacturing debris collect in the oil and are then flushed out of the crankcase when drained. This allows for a much cleaner operating environment for the synthetic lubricant.
__________________________________________________
Repeating my earlier comments:
Synthetic lubricants do have an inherent detergency that cleans and removes conventional motor oil deposits (sometimes referred to as crud) left over in an engine. However, all motor oils are designed to help swell seals slightly to prevent leakage. The only time you would observe seal leakage is if the seals are already damaged or showing signs of leakage around them. As long as the vehicle has been well maintained, and in good mechanical condition, it can be switched to a synthetic lubricant at any mileage.
__________________________________________________
Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
New Dak owner
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/07/2004
16:40:21
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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Thanks AMSOIL man. I think I will give it a shot. Do you recamend a flush first? Like I said up above I just got a 99 3.9L v6 with 100,000 on it. So when it says new Dak owner I mean new to me.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/07/2004
17:08:45
| switch to synthetic oil = flush + Amsoil
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Yes, and I recommend Auto-Rx®, www.auto-rx.com.
I do not sell this product but I really like it!
FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS RELIGIOUSLY!
Auto-Rx® works slowly, methodically and efficiently and will take 750+ miles to do its job. Engine deposits are formed layer by layer, they should be removed layer by layer. Auto-Rx® does exactly that. It's formulation does not interfere with the physical characteristics of the host motor oil --- and it is compatible with synthetic as well as non-synthetic oils.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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ALWAYSFLUSH
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2004
13:58:03
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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You have nothing to loose by flushing except harmful engine deposits and SLUDGE
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.
Dodge Dakota
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6/06/2004
16:58:09
| RE: switching to synthetic oil ??
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