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BentSpoon
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
02:47:11
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 Subject: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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I got a problem on my Dak'98 (3.9L auto)where I get what sounds like a second fan revving high on startup, very intermittent (I've been keeping a logbook on it - so far it lasts 2-3 days then waits about a week before doing it again), then again on accel from stop to shifting to 2nd. It also shifts from 1-2 about 300 rpm higher. At the same time, in accel from stop, engine revs high and I have 1/4-1/2 hp until it shifts to second, then all is fine.
I've thought it could be the vaccuum hoses leaking or something along there, or the IAC is dirty and the throttle body needs to be cleaned, or, since the last "check engine" light alarmed for the vague problem of "O2 sensor", it could be in that area. I have the same inj. and spark plugs my baby came with, but I'm just pushing 18,400 miles in
3 1/2 yrs.
If it makes a difference, I've been here in Hawaii for the past 3 yrs and run with the AC on 99% of the time. BUT, when I was in Connecticut (where I got it) in winter, Baby did the same thing. Hot or cold, same deal.
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bruce shelton
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
05:52:20
|  RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
This I was told was normal for a Chrysler.
Bruce
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BMac
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
06:13:31
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Sounds to me like the clutch fan is engaging. This is normal for a Dodge, and yes, it takes a lot of power away. My 5.2 did it this morning. Also the A/C comes on intermittently to keep the pump from seizing up. My 3.9 5speed did this all year round.
Cure: electric fan:)
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
09:56:41
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
My 98 3.9l Does this too very intermittent. It usually only does it in 1st or 2nd gear. Also I dont have AC so I dont think its related to that.
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BentSpoon
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
11:59:16
|  RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Ok, this is NOT a "Dodge Thing" and this is NOT "normal". In fact it can be a freaking hazard when driving. I feel like I'm in a huge tricycle, pedaling for my very life.
But I am glad to see I'm not the only one.
Electric fan? how do you mean?
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Art
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
14:23:36
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
its normal at startup its like a choke mode say up to the first 30 seconds of driving but it should not do it while your driving and engine warm,somethings wrong if it does it at stop light to stop light maybe TPS or map sensor when your in open loop I think the PCM doesnt even take o2 sensor readings
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Kevin
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
18:34:42
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
This is normal for a Dodge. Your fan clutch is engaging. It robs you of a lot of power, and you get the loud fan roar. THe only way to cure the problem is to remove the stock fan and install an aftermarket electric fan.
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BentSpoon
Dodge Dakota
6/28/2001
19:55:06
|  RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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GREAT! Where can I get one and are they hard to install by myself? How much do they generally run? Are there a couple you would recommend?
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Art
Dodge Dakota
6/29/2001
02:46:34
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
kevin your tellin me that the fan clutch is makin him lose 1/2 power?dam neva thought fan clutch could do that,lets see when your engine is cold isnt the fan clutch supposed to be not locked up,you dont need max air when its cold and when the engine is hot then it locks up to draw more air thru the rad,right?right?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
6/29/2001
09:02:03
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
BentSpoon...
go to www.jegs.com and look at electric radiator fans. If you don't see one that's good, order their catalog or call 1-800-345-4545 and ask one of the sales guys which ones will fit your truck. They are pretty easy to wire up and they will fre up about 5-10 horsepower and get you better gas mileage. If you live in the south, then you need to keep an eye on the temperature gauge from about July to September, as an electric fan won't always pull as hard as that factory fan when the clutch is locked up.
Art-
The clutch fan design on the Dakota makes it lock up for the first few minutes of operation on all Dakotas. It sucks a lot of power from the engine (probably not half), and then it releases back to the "free-wheel" mode. The next time it should lock up will be in high heat (usually in heavy traffic). My '92 did it, my Dad's 98 does it, and my 2000 does it too. Don't ask me, it's Dodge's fault.
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
6/29/2001
09:16:24
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Here is the TSB on this issue.
Engine Cooling Fan - Roaring Noise Explanation
NO: 07-05-98
GROUP: Cooling
DATE: Sep. 4, 1998
SUBJECT:
Engine Cooling Fan Noise
MODELS:
1998 - 1999 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1997 - 1999 (AN) Dakota
1998 - 1999 (DN) Durango
DISCUSSION:
Some vehicles may exhibit an engine cooling fan "roar" noise. This noise is created by a large cooling fan that is required to provide optimum cooling for low vehicle speed operation in hot weather conditions and for heavy trailer towing. Since the large cooling fan is unnecessary in most operating conditions, these vehicles are also equipped with viscous fan drives that allow the fan to operate at variable speeds based upon temperature loads. The viscous fan drive will engage the fan for maximum cooling when temperatures are high and allow the fan to operate at slower speeds when temperatures are low. In addition, at engine start-up, the viscous fan drive engages the fan for maximum cooling until the fluid in the viscous clutch can dissipate out of the clutch drive grooves allowing the fan to operate at a slower speed.
Because of the viscous fan drive, the noise may occur during high temperature conditions and for the first 1-2 minutes of operation. Due to the roar of the fan, customers may also complain of a perceived loss of power, automatic transmission slippage, or that the transmission is slaying into a low gear too long (delayed upshift).
Customers concerned about this noise should be advised that this condition is normal and no repair attempts should be made.
POLICY: Information Only
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Art
Dodge Dakota
6/29/2001
14:36:19
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
IP: Logged
Message:
good info guys couldnt you just take out the stock clutch and just put in a spacer or a aftermarket fan and clutch
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T.Lloyd
Dodge Dakota
7/01/2001
19:05:32
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
My 98 started doing in intervals a couple of weeks before it was constant. I replaced my fan clutch and no more problems. Check to make sure your fan can free-wheel when it is not running. If you can not spin the fan, again when it is not running, then the fan clutch is locked up. This will cause the electric fan to continually run.
Hope this helps. Oh yeah, I got my fan clutch from NAPA for $75.00.
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BentSpoon
Dodge Dakota
7/01/2001
23:46:56
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
guys, this helps me a lot. I'm sold on getting an electric fan as soon as possible. Along with some of the stuf Bernd has listed on his website to fix the pinging problem.
Thanks to all of you.
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Pat Woodrow
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/14/2002
16:35:34
| The ROAR drives me nuts on startup
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It only happens about every 4th day or so. Always on start-up and when cold. Engine (V-6) starts normally , sounds normal BUT! When I pull away it SIMPLY ROARS. The discussions I read indicate this is "normal" but to me normal would be a normally sounding engine. The ROAR stops gradually in 2nd gear and is gone in 3rd gear. This is one of those "normal" things .......... like when the brakes on my Ford F-150 used to lock up on a cold morning. Ford said THAT was normal too. I think it's worthy of a Dodge recall but is not because it is not safety related. Thanks, Dodge, for throwing me to the wolves. I can just hear the "RANGER" owners laughing.
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BentSpoon
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/14/2002
17:41:12
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Pat, I am thinking the SAME thing. I had identical symptoms until I put in the electric fan. I haven't yet had the "normal" "excessive fan roar" and I don't expect to. As an added bonus, the engine runs COOLER by around 10-15F. That's in the early part of summer in Hawaii (80-high-90's) in moderate-to-heavy traffic.
btw, here's another page that might help you out. (it's a forum page from speedtweaks)
http://pub66.ezboard.com/fspeedtweaksfrm2.showMessage?topicID=27.topic
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Frank
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/07/2003
03:42:01
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
I just bought a 1998 Dodge Dakota EXT Cab 4x4 v-6 3.9L Automatic.It has 75,000 miles . The problem I have is ,When hot or cold, Go from park to drive, step on gas pedal to take off,it will rev ok from take off ,but before it gets to 2nd gear ,it will hit a high rev and then go into 2nd gear and the transmission feels like its slipping? 3rd gear ok, I'm not sure if I have a 3 speed tranny or 4,either way,it still revs high and sloppy trans,when you step on pedal to speed up in any gear ,it will high rev again and then feel like it has take off power.The dealer said that I need a new TRANSMISSON $ 1950.00,.THE 2ND PLACE SAID THE SAME THING $1900-2200,3RD SAID SAME THING,$ 2000. Found sticker on fan shroud that said where dealer worked on it and had code,TSB 21-04-00, REPROGRAM PCM SHIFT QUALITY ( DATE 3-14-01)AND THE CODE OF DEALER 62087, I called them about it and they said that it had nothing to do with transmission,past owner complained about humming noise in rear of truck. But one shop here in town looked it up and said that it had everything to do with trasmission? WHO CAN HELP ME, I love this used truck that I bought 3 weeks ago and I'm INTO IT FOR A 4 YEAR LOAN???, Please anyone help?, I have app. to get rebulit transmission priced and possible put in next week. HELP? Thanks Frank
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Frank
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/07/2003
03:46:06
| RE: hits high rev before 2nd gear and dealer says
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Message:
I just bought a 1998 Dodge Dakota EXT Cab 4x4 v-6 3.9L Automatic.It has 75,000 miles . The problem I have is ,When hot or cold, Go from park to drive, step on gas pedal to take off,it will rev ok from take off ,but before it gets to 2nd gear ,it will hit a high rev and then go into 2nd gear and the transmission feels like its slipping? 3rd gear ok, I'm not sure if I have a 3 speed tranny or 4,either way,it still revs high and sloppy trans,when you step on pedal to speed up in any gear ,it will high rev again and then feel like it has take off power.The dealer said that I need a new TRANSMISSON $ 1950.00,.THE 2ND PLACE SAID THE SAME THING $1900-2200,3RD SAID SAME THING,$ 2000. Found sticker on fan shroud that said where dealer worked on it and had code,TSB 21-04-00, REPROGRAM PCM SHIFT QUALITY ( DATE 3-14-01)AND THE CODE OF DEALER 62087, I called them about it and they said that it had nothing to do with transmission,past owner complained about humming noise in rear of truck. But one shop here in town looked it up and said that it had everything to do with trasmission? WHO CAN HELP ME, I love this used truck that I bought 3 weeks ago and I'm INTO IT FOR A 4 YEAR LOAN???, Please anyone help?, I have app. to get rebulit transmission priced and possible put in next week. HELP? Thanks Frank
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Rocky Horror
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/07/2003
08:20:39
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
SELL that POS v6, espec. with a 4x4, and get a real engine!
A 4year loan, on a 98 truck?
'can you hear me now?.....good'
Sorry, this is just the BEST advice!, I realize it doesn't help your current dilemma.
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Elforcko
Gen I
3/07/2003
10:42:09
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
The high rev is due to the fan's motor (the saucer shaped thing at the center) being bad. Replace the whole fan with a Black Magic 150 fan. $200. It's a kit that comes with the fan, motor, shroud, temp sensor, and mounts. Being the mechanically inclined guy I am, I took it to a local shop who changed my spark plugs at the same time (the 2 closest to the cab were a real PAIN IN THE A$$!!!). $192. The engine now runs cooler, regardless of environment (I live in Hawaii). You get used to the loud fan clicking on and off as it senses the temp rising and falling. The fans only loud from outside.
I've had this setup for over a year and I can't believe I waited as long as I did. 'Course, that was mainly due to the Dodge shop not having a clue. They never tried to sell me the line about a new tranny, although I asked about whether it could be the problem.
Anyway, based on your symptoms, I'd say either get a new fan clutch drive (new fan from Dodge) or replace the fan itself with an electric.
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Frank
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/08/2003
04:13:50
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
It's me again 1998 Dodge Dakota with V-6 4x4,4 year loan? WHAT ABOUT THE SLIPPING OF THE TRANSMISSION? Like I said before,you can hear the engine rev high before going into 2nd gear and it feels like your spinning wheels on wet pavement but I'm not,also when you try to give it a heavy foot to speed up, the RPM'S hits a high rev before going into gear again,plus that sticker that I found on radiator shroud,that has dealer code and the REPROGRAM PCM SHIFT QUALITY TSB 21-04-00 THAT THEY DID ON 3-14-01, so is someone not know what they did ?or just telling me a bunch of bull...1 shop says this? the other says that. 3rd says what 1st said? So how do I know how and who to help me fix it without getting another loan to pay for this? My gut always says that it's not the tranny, but the truck sure acts funny when you step on gas pedal? THANKS, 4 LOANER
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Elforcko
Gen I
3/08/2003
12:24:51
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
It feels like you have half of your power when you try to accel to 2nd from a stop (like at a light), right? At the same time, the rpms are higher than they should be, right?
As I understand it, and I hope I got it right 'cause replacing the fan removed those symptoms, this is caused by the clutch drive on the stock fan (the spinning boat anchor) is malfunctioning and engaging when it isn't needed, thus putting more drag on the engine (<-this part I'm not sure on), and causing your problems. I went through your frustrations with the less than helpful "experts".
Question: does the high revs SOUND like high revs or a really loud fan? I remember the rpms do go a little higher before it shifts, but only like 200-500 rpms. The TSB they did might have been like what I went through: trying whatever seems logical to help Baby feel better.
Oh! Does it rev high all the time or only occasionally? That was a lot of fun, too. It shows the symptoms for a couple days, just long enuf to quit on the way to the shop. "Huh. What high rpm noise?"
Hope this helps.
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Frank
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/08/2003
14:31:22
|  RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Frank again, It sounds like high rpm rev's not fan?,also when this happens it feels like someone hit me from the back of truck, cuz it feels like it engaged back into gear,It will do this when ever it wants to... cold, hot, slow speed ,fast,barely on the pedal? When I step on pedal to take off while I'am driving 30mph the rpm's hits high rev,like when you were to miss a shift if it was a manual? You know what I mean? Thats the best that i can explain it. THANKS FOR YOU FEED BACK, Frank with LOANER
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Elforcko
Gen I
3/09/2003
02:35:50
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
I get that feeling too. I still haven't completely gotten used to how hard it shifts, but if it feels like someone HITS you, there might be something wrong with the tranny. At one time I had them open and clean the tranny (part of the troubleshooting for the fan rev prob) I expected them to find metal or debris of some kind. Nuthin'. Just a normal tranny.
If it feels like it shifts to neutral, revs high, then slams into gear, I dunno; that's a different problem. I hope you find an easier ($) way of fixing it.
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Frank
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/14/2003
03:24:51
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
It's me Frank with 4yr loan,just to let all you guys know that I got my truck fixed yesterday from a professional transmission specialist,it was the transmission after all and not the fan, fan motor or fan clutch...? MY TRANS WAS PRETTY MUCH SHOT, all burnt up,bands clutches,torq converter,you name it ,and it got replaced,WAS REBUILT,ALL NEW AND HEAVY DUTY PARTS, Now truck feels like new and no more high rev's after 1st gear into 2nd. THANKS FOR LISTENING AND GIVING ME INPUT, BUT BE CAREFUL HOW YOU EXPLAIN YOUR PROBLEMS TO CERTAIN MECHANICS??????, Not always what you think or may know for sure. BYE
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kreeptik
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/16/2003
19:03:18
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Just be happy ur in Hawaii why the rest of us are broke down in the states.
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Red00Sport
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/17/2003
08:24:28
| RE: half power, high revving noise @ startup
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Message:
Ya know before I bought my truck on the test ride it did the same thing. I said knock some cash off of it or have it fixed. Came back that the clutch fan was engaging and they replaced it. Bought it used so it wasn't a dodge dealership. Anyhow I havent had the problem since.
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