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andrew stroup
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2004
05:16:57
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 Subject: Mr. amsoil
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I don't like extended drains.but I do think amsoil is a superior oil.so i was thinking about a blend .could amsoil be mixed with conventional oil for a synthetic blend.also what are your thoughts on the on the shelf blends at walmart are they any better than conventional?if so which ones are the best.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/09/2004
08:46:34
|  Mr. Amsoil - Amsoil Extended Drain - Synthetic Oil
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Andrew,
Whether or not you choose Amsoil --- choose synthetics --- not conventional petroleum --- not a blend. If cost is your factor --- buy Mobil1 in the 5 quart jugs. Amsoil is superior to Mobil1. For the record, Mobil1 markets a better synthetic motor oil in Europe than they do in the USA. Europeans laugh at 3k mile oil changes. The average oil change interval in Europe is between 12k - 15k miles --- with a target of 30k miles. Amsoil already markets oils capable of 25k - 35k oil change intervals. More below.
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SYNTHETIC VS. CONVENTIONAL PETROLEUM
Conventional Petroleum lubricants are refined from crude oil which has thousands of types of molecules. Refining is a process of physically separating the impurities from the oil and further separating the light and heavy components. Because refining separates products by weight, it groups molecules of similar weight and dissimilar structure. The result is a lubricant with a wide assortment of molecules. Some of the substances in crude oil are detrimental to lubrication. Paraffins, for example, are a common conventional oil contaminant that causes motor oil to thicken in cold temperatures (and it is VERY cold in some parts of the country today).
Synthetic motor oils are made from pure chemicals, not refined crude. Their components are chemically reacted to produce finished products with pre-designed performance characteristics. Because of their molecular uniformity, they excel in reducing friction, which improves fuel efficiency, controls heat and reduces wear. This molecular uniformity also helps synthetics resist thinning in hot temperatures and thickening in cold.
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I always use synthetic. The main reason synthetic oils perform so much better than petroleum is that it is molecularly stable. All of the molecules are virtually the same. Not so with petroleum.
With synthetic, you reduce friction which in turn reduces internal heat and wear and tear on the motor or moving parts. Less friction means less wear - more horsepower with less work for the engine to do.
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Why Synthetic Oils? Why Amsoil?
Most synthetics have similarly good typical specs, but the performance from better additives, more shear stable VI, higher TBN, etc, can not be easily demonstrated with a test or a chart. These attributes of AMSOIL show up by controlling acids in the oil, eliminating corrosion in the engine, maintaining viscosity throughout the drain interval helping improve performance in the areas of fuel economy and cold weather starting, keeping contaminants in suspension until they get to the oil filter for removal or the oil is drained, and generally keeping the engine cleaner and deposit free. These benefits are not easily demonstrated with a test or a chart. Amsoil produces a SUPERIOR Synthetic Motor Oil by using only the best base oils and additives.
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Myth: Synthetics are too expensive
Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine lubricants more economical than conventional non synthetics. In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.
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Extended Drains (should we be concerned)
In Europe manufacturers recommend significantly longer drain intervals using synthetic lubricants. In fact, drain intervals in Europe are between 12k and 15k miles for almost all vehicles --- with a near-term target of between 25k - 30k intervals. In America ... vehicle manufacturers, dealers, and "quickie lubes" continue to promote the 3k oil change --- for the additional billions of dollars of profits that can be generated. Don't buy into the BS.
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This is NOT a Redline vs. Amsoil comment, just a post whereby Redline confirms Amsoil's claims of Extended Drains.
Redline confirms Synthetic Oil Extended Drains.
Amsoil has confirmed and marketed this for 30 years.
Redline's information per their website:
"Red Line Synthetic oils have been shown to last 25,000 miles in field tests; however we recommend shorter drain intervals in order to provide a margin of safety with the oil. We recommend draining the oil between 12,000 and 18,000 miles depending on the type of service and the degree of blow-by gases contaminating the oil. High-speed freeway driving is easy on the oil due to its excellent thermal stability. If the engine is worn and if considerable stop-and-go driving is involved, 10,000-12,000 mile drains are suggested. A good rule of thumb to follow is to change the oil at least once a year regardless the mileage. Manufacturers warranty requirements should be followed while under warranty. Filters can be changed every 5,000 to 7,500 miles in order to assure filter durability is not a problem." ... etc., etc.
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Amsoil comments regarding Extended Drains (in my words):
Amsoil has been in the oil industry for 30 years. Due to Amsoil's superior synthetic composition and advanced performance additives, AMSOIL performs much longer than do conventional petroleum and other synthetic motor oils. No other major oil manufacturer matches AMSOIL's 25,000-mile or one-year drain interval recommendations (whichever comes FIRST, changing the filter every six months).
However, the 25,000 mile /1 year that is on the back of the bottle IS NOT an absolute! One must realize that is for non-severe service (highway miles where you have stable operating conditions) and that the indicated drain interval also has a time period of 1 year maximum as well.
Under a combination of city and highway circumstances, AMSOIL recommends up to 2 or 3 times longer, it means up to 2 or 3 times the equipment manufacturer's recommendation (If your owners manual states 3k miles , then you can change at 9k, and if your owners manual states 5k then 12-15k changes would be alright based on driving habits ... the harder you drive, the sooner the change). Proper filtration is also very important. AMSOIL SDF Oil Filters must be changed at least every 6 months regardless of miles driven.
Notice: Modifications to engine will change service intervals.
Notice: More frequent service may be required under severe service operating conditions.
Notice: For drain interval beyond 3x manufacturers recommendations (especially the 25k change) --- Regular oil analysis is recommended for establishing drain intervals.
AMSOIL --- 30 years of manufacturing oil and mountains of data and tests make these clains possible.
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To request a FREE Amsoil Catalog click the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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hmmm
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2004
13:22:11
|  RE: Mr. amsoil
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Mobil 1 is not a synthetic oil, it's made from petroleum base with a few additives. http://www.calsci.com/ST1300/Oils1.html
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/09/2004
14:41:38
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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hmmm,
Mobil1 SS is synthetic: Group IV (PAO) / V (Esters) Synthetic Base
Having said that, Mobil1 is a good oil overall ---but NOT a great oil. It's a bit overrated --- and while it may keep an engine clean, Mobil1 leaves a lot to be desired in wear performance --- most UOA's (Used Oil Analysis), show higher than usual Iron.
Don't buy into the "Nothing Outperforms ... " marketing hype.
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Andrew,
There are many excellent synthetic lubes in Europe available "on the retail shelves", but in the USA only the independent blenders like Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, and a few others --- produce 100% Synthetic Products.
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The Future of Synthetic Lubricants
In Europe, TOP-TIER synthetics have a market share of approximately 30%. The same thing will happen in the USA in the near future.
U.S. and Japaness auto manufacturers would like to go to 10k - 15k oil drain intervals --- like they have in Europe. In fact GM has been pushing for extended oil drain intervals in America --- but can't unless they mandate the use of synthetics --- and they don't trust the consumer to avoid the $20 "Quickie Lube". All German manufacturers and even high end domestic cars like the Corvette and Viper already specify (mandate) synthetics. Mercedes Benz does also.
Also --- Mandating synthetic lubricants gives vehicle manufacturers much more flexibility in engine and transmission design, since you can allow them to run hotter, eliminate the oil cooler, decrease the sump capacity and make the front end more aerodynamic --- without worrying about air flow over the engine/transmission. Increased engine temps means higher thermal efficiency, lower exhaust emissions, and improved fuel efficiency. So these future changes --- mandating synthetic lubricants --- are inevitable.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/09/2004
14:46:13
| Amsoil = Superior Synthetic Oils and Lubricants
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Andrew,
My earlier comment should have read as follows:
"There are many excellent TOP TIER synthetic lubricants in Europe available "on the retail shelves", but in the USA only the independent blenders like Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, and a few others --- produce 100% TOP-TIER Truely Competitive Synthetic Products."
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Frank
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2004
10:07:55
| RE: Mr. amsoil
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A word about the oil drain interval differences with Europe & Japan & USA.
I am from Europe. Forgive me for English not being too good. I am Product Engineer of company that distributes the Chevron lubricants. I hold frequently educational seminars with our customers and clients, and I do not post much here but I read as my family has Dakota. Here I post as I am with Chevron.
I chose the basic subject of the your discussion:
* why in Europe the oil drains intervals are more than in USA? May be base oils and additive package in Europe are better?
* how to determine «exact» drain interval?
* how to select oil for the vehicle?
I shall begin from the first question and if my answer will be interesting for you I shall keep on later.
The answer, why in USA drain intervals of oil are LESS than in Europe hides in the design features of engines from USA and Europe. In the American engines the upper compression ring of piston is located almost on a piston head. It is considered (and it is the truth) that fuel composite that located between the wall of cylinder, the first piston ring and wall of the piston does not burn. The large masses of metal do not give temperature to be pushed up prior to the beginning fire.
Therefore, unburned fuel will be rejected in an exhaust pipe. Someone will tell that this amount is very little. But the sea consists from the many drops of water! The American designers have located the first ring, as it is possible above. Now it gets into combustion zone. The oil that accumulates on this ring at piston move to the top dead center is burn too. I am sure that you know, that after combustion of oil forms an ash (not sulphate). It is solid rest. This rest, accruing on a piston ring, plays a part of abrasive that reduce a wear. Besides you know, that the detergency, dispersancy, total base number etc. are directly depend on amount of ash. Engines designers and oils manufacturers are come to an accommodation - ashy additives so much to not cause abrasive wear, but not so much for long life.
European engine manufacturers (and Japanese too) have pulled down the upper compression ring below, so that it did not fall in combustion zone. The oil on it does not burn, therefore and will not be to form of the abrasive rest. It is possible to raise ash content in oil together with increasing TBN, detergents, dispersants and so on. With increase of these performances is increase endurance of engine oil usage also.
Therefore at usage of the AMERICAN oil in the AMERICAN engines the drain interval is less, than at usage of EUROPEAN oils in EUROPEAN engines. I am sure you can to view independently alternative versions of oils and engines. As to base oils and additives, they are practically identical in Europe and USA. There are only minor differences.
You must use the better oils in USA as most are not good. In Europe we have better formulations of your oils and are at 17.000 km to 25.000 km oil drain intervals.
Use oil with best base oils and good additive package.
Frank R
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