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Andrew
Dodge Dakota
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1/01/2004
21:26:59
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 Subject: RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Not that I give a crap, but if disks in the rear are so useless, then why does any race car that is at all fast use rear disks? They should be using drums in the front of all new cars today if they are so good. Maybe if Chrysler wasn't a bunch of cheap asses, then the rear drums would work they they are suppose to huh.
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Well
Dodge Dakota
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1/01/2004
23:14:14
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Don't confuse superior with adequate. Disk brakes are superior to drums but drums are adequate, on the rear, to get the job done.
As soon as ricer hill billies stop confusing Dodge Dakota pick up truck with Porsche 911 sport coupe, this whole debate will die.
Disks up front...gotta have them...disks in rear...why when drums will do. Always remember it's just a phucking pick up truck.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/01/2004
23:14:36
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Andrew, not that WE give a crap, but if you weren't so wrapped up in being so dense, you'd see that we aren't saying discs shouldn't be used up front. We're saying REAR discs in street vehicles are more hype than not. (Maybe in your world, people really drive racecars on the street). If you had the ability to understand basic physics I'd try to explain how this works, but since you've proven you lack this basic understanding as evidenced in your post, I'm not going to go over this again. I will, however, quote a great and wise showman, P.T. Barnum..."There's a sucker born every minute." Now excuse me while I go buy some stock in disc brake manufacturers.
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tkhuber
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
15:21:48
|  RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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You definitely DON'T want 4-wheel drum brakes like my '66 Coronet had. Way back when I was a reckless teenager, I took a midnight dare and got the car up to 110 mph on a straight two-lane road. Then a mile away I spy a flashing red beacon over a 4-way stop sign. You'd think it would have been enough braking distance, but those drum brakes faded away to nothing at 60 mph. Good thing it was the middle of the night, because even with engine braking I was still going 50 mph when we ran the stop sign. Front discs wouldn't have faded and would have stopped the car just fine.
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Mr.Sleepy
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
16:33:28
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Rear discs are wonderful for one reason, easy as pie brake jobs..... other than that.... bah.
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wildAKmoose
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
17:17:55
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Andrew, you're fairly confused by brake issues.
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xplikt
GenIII
1/03/2004
02:58:20
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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"...just a hollow promise that some soccer mom wants because it will save her and her uterine ejacs while she's out running over sub compacts trying to get the best parking spot at WalMart."
Ahahahahahahah, that's funny.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 4.56 LSD
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ThumbTack
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
05:40:21
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Hey xplikt,
WTF is up with that homepage, dude? Is that for real? If it is, that's some f@cked up sh!t.
Just remember, women are like salmon. There's millions more out there and they all taste the same.
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Michael
DakotaEnthusiast
1/03/2004
14:22:53
|  RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Um, you are still wrong. The kit only explains how to do the adjustment, you don't change any part in the valve. ONLY ADJUST!
The ones saying that the drums are better, are full of it. Do a search on my username to find out why I switched to rear discs. When I had to either replace the factory 11" drums and related hardware the price was over $1000.00. So I spent $800.00 on the rear disc conversion. Also you don't have to worry about them freezing up they are rebuilt by SSB with all Stainless parts.
Z-Tube, R/T Rims, SSB Rear Disc Conversion, Alpine Head-Unit, Infinity Kappa Speakers, SilverStar Headlights, HO Cams & Intake installed.
Got H.O. ?
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albert
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
17:18:56
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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My truck stops well with rear drums even with a 3" lift and 33's. I just want to stop the problem I have with the rotors warping. I'm hoping the conversion will cure this. If it doesn't, I dont know what else to do.
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YaRight
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
17:31:52
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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"When I had to either replace the factory 11" drums and related hardware the price was over $1000.00. So I spent $800.00 on the rear disc conversion."
Now who's full of it? $1000.00 for rear drums? I guess that's what you told the misses (or mister) to justify spending the 800 bones.
Point is, there's plenty of other stuff to do before spending 1 cent on a worthless "upgrade" like this. But hey, if you feel like Mr. Nascar, knock yourself out.
What's next? Double trailing arm rear suspension and coil-overs? Those shocks are mighty pricey at $35.00.
LOL......ICMU
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Michael
DakotaEnthusiast
1/03/2004
20:49:01
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Um, No. The rear drums, backing plates and related hardware from the factory is almost over $1000.00. And no I'm not Mr. Nascar or claimed to be. But my truck does stop %200 better than yours. If you can't afford to do the convert than fine, I'm not busting your a$$ about it. But, it is the best upgrade i've done so far. And like I said my fronts don't warp anymore.
I really don't care what you think anyway I was only replying to the other guys question.
Albert I'm glad you don't have any problems, I did. But, not anymore :)
Z-Tube, R/T Rims, SSB Rear Disc Conversion, Alpine Head-Unit, Infinity Kappa Speakers, SilverStar Headlights, HO Cams & Intake installed.
Got H.O. ?
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GRNDSM
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
01:16:38
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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It is amazing that people are still arguing “superiority” of drum brakes… Or for that matter, referring to NASCAR as something advanced :).
Michael, I would just like to thank you for that excellent step by step illustration on how to upgrade the rear brakes! I was all set to buy the SSB kit, when I thought of switching to the larger rotors of the Wilwood kit offered on the other forum. Then, I dropped both of those ideas when I killer deal on some Viper brakes!
Now, I just need to find someone who has documented Viper brake conversion as well as you did SSB conversion :). Anyone? :).
Leon
RR
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Get a clue
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
08:07:39
|  RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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No one here is arguing superiority of drum brakes, just adequacy. Neither was anyone referring to NASCAR as something advanced; they were talking about driving style. If you bought into Michael's claim his truck stops 200% better, I hope you took it with a grain of salt; I guarantee you his won't stop in half the distance of a stocker.
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Bring it on
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
09:52:14
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Gen1, Lay out your basic physics explanation.
The fact is that rear disc brakes are by far a better braking setup.
I will grant you that drums have more braking surface area, but the heat generated by drums is not dissapated like it is in a disc set-up. In the end the heat generated by the drums works against you and ends up boiling the brake fluid rendering the drums useless.
Sounds like you are using your "personal experience" from your dads 75 Dodge truck to make a point. That truck was inadequate for the use, did it haul the trailer and machine ? Yes, but it was marginal at best.
The truck should have been a 1-ton chassis at least and the trailer should have had brakes.
The 1-tons that we use to haul our skidloaders have rear disc brakes, also the trucks have a adjustable proportioning valve that is mounted to the frame and has a link to the rear axle, so when there is a load on the truck the valve shifts more of the braking to the rear.
We do not have any problems with wearing out front brakes before the rears.
BTW, An 8,000 lb "Bull Dozer" is a toy. Our Mustang 2060 skidloaders weigh in at 7,000 lbs.
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Listen Stupid
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
14:34:32
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Nobody ever claimed that drum barkes were superior. Learn to read above a grade 2 level and that might become apparent. I'll be the first to say that disc's are superior ON THE FRONT.
The only claim I'm making is that it's pointless to make the switch on our trucks. It does nothing and if somebody wants to claim that it does, post a link to the site with the verified braking distances and the methodology used in the researh.
Making claims with the old anus dyno and bag skid pad mean nothing in the real world.
You morons just need to tinker with NASCAR style trucks to feel more like your hero's.
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brake job
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
15:43:22
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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GRNDSM, where did you find viper brakes? I want to get all four calipers and rotors. How much did you pay for them? www.gsmotorsports.com sells viper brake conversions, they are pretty pricey at $800 I think. But i want to do it. To everyone else. If you had the balls to try and race a pickup in scca racing, you would want awesome breaks too.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
20:28:01
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Bring it on? How is a 3/4 ton full size pickup inadequate to pull the load I mentioned? As for the dozer being a toy....it was used in an area where a much larger dozer would not fit, could not maneuver. Can you handle that basic concept? Would you feel better if it weighed twice as much? It weighed what it weighed. Could the system have been optimized for better weight distribution during braking, yes, to a degree? Would the front brakes still take most of the load? Yes. No way around it. It's due to the fact that the truck has a suspension. Inertia....weight transfer....Does any of this ring a bell? It's not a solid framed go-cart. And yes, I am using my dad's truck as personal experience, beacause I was a teenager then. It was the sort of work he did on the weekends, and I was his help. I was there on my weekends and after school. Must I actually own the truck to have personal experience with it? It's interesting to note that you attempt to undermine my example, and insult it. Typical methods used by someone who cannot dispute the facts.
Now, using your example....you stated the usual yada yada about proportioning valves. Yeah, whatever. It was also a 1-ton truck. Can I take it from there that it wasn't a daily-driver? Ours was. You also stated having rear-disc brake. Well gee, they lasted the same as the fronts? Go figure. Less weight transfer in the 1-ton. All-around discs. Not too far removed from that solid frame gocart at this point. Larger brakes to begin with (I'd imagine, since ours was inadequate). Adjusting the prop. valve to give more braking to the rear when loaded must mean you used less rear braking when not loaded? That would seem to indicate that the front brakes do more work in that 1-ton when not loaded (pretty much like most street vehicles), so can one infer that for street duty, the front brakes are even more important than the rears? Therefore, might it be reasonable to conclude that an expensive rear disc conversion IS NOT NECESSARY? Hey, it's your $ and time. Go for it. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. Personally, I don't want as much braking in the rear. You can set up a proportioning valve to route braking power bias where you want it, but it won't adapt on-the-fly to changing weather conditions. What works well when dry, will lock up when wet. Got Anti-lock? Yeah. Then you've gone a long way around the issue to wind up with the same situation. Once again....towing vehicles that have limited suspension shift, and thus mild to moderate bias will benefit more from rear discs than regular streeters. Also, nice low, flat-riding cars do better as well. The Viper is much better at making use of 4-wheel discs than my truck would ever be. Do you get these examples? I'm not saying they don't work. Also, on warped rotors....My experience with warpage (in my own vehicles) is that the disc rotors set up much more harsh vibrations when they warp, and yes, they do warp. Dodge is addressing this in the SRT-4 by using 1-inch thick rotors. It's is amazing to me that people write into this site and when they get sound advice that they don't want to hear, they turn it into a furball. Hey, you who want rear discs, go for it.
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Wow
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2004
01:06:55
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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This is one heck of a thread!
I'll just add my $0.02 then (everyone else has).
Disc is better for heat disipation! The same way cross drill are the better of the disc setup, they disipate even more heat. But they also effected by water more so than drums b/c of the open surface (unless the drums fill with water, which is harder to do b/c of the lip's design.)
Drums have more instant stopping power (And I mean instant) Think of the contact area between the shoe-drum, approx 80% contact are vs. 25-30% on the pad-rotor. But they fade VERY VERY VERY fast. If the y could disipate the heat in the same way that disc do, then people would switch back to them.
If the drum is so inferior then why is it that a 45,000lb semi have them as the only brakes? Or how about a 750,000lbs Boeing 747? Yes, ALL the big jumbo jets have drum brakes (just really big ones)!
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2004
01:18:31
| RE: Rear Disk conversion cheap!
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Excellent points, Wow. I, for one, appreciate that info.
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