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Gilberttribe
Dodge Dakota
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11/12/2003
15:31:02
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 Subject: motor oil site
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The site, http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ has a lot of great information about motor oils, trnasmission oils, air filters, etc. To get the most out of it, you need to click forums, go to used oil analysis - gas engine or http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=3. It contains actual oil analysis results from hundreds of people over a period of a few years. People post their oil analysis results, and then results are discussed by some very knowledgeable individuals.
I like this site because you get real world data. I care about how a motor oil performs (effects wear) in my Dakota after 3000/7500 miles of use, not that Joe trucker went 400k miles without an oil change and a bypass filter, or stock car dyno results, or the length of a scar on a ball. I'm not anti-AMSoil by any means (I'm an AMSoil preferred customer), but you would be hard pressed to conclude that any of the top synthetics (AMSoil, Mobile 1, Royal Purple, etc.) are the "best" from the posted results. In addition, it would be difficult to conclude that a synthetic motor oil was worthwhile if changed every 3000-4000 miles.
There are few reports from various Daks and Durangos. I would be very interested to hear what others conclude after reviewing the information.
I'm sure someone will come out and say that UOAs aren't a measure of oil performance and that the results only apply to individual vehicles... Given the number of reports and historical information on the site, that argument is no longer valid in this case.
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big blue QC
GenIII
11/12/2003
16:21:03
| RE: motor oil site
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I can send you the oil analysis's I have done on my DAK. send me an e-mail
2002 QC 4x4 Sport Plus, 4.7L, auto, Patriot Blue, Tire & Handling group,
Heavy Duty Service group, Leer cap w/out windows, Mopar Step bars and roof rack, Rhino liner in bed and on step bars, Pace Edwards Power Tailgate lock
3.55 rear, 4-wheel anti-lock brakes, all possible fluids are AMSOIL
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/12/2003
16:37:01
|  Amsoil AMSOIL AMSoil = American Synthetic Oil
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Gilbert,
The above mentioned website is a very good one and I have mentioned it here before. That is where I learned about Auto-RX (good) --- that Mobil1 is misleading with their advertisement: "Nothing Outperforms Mobil1" (bad), and about the holes in K&N air filters that are the size of small grains of sand if you hold them up to the light (ugly). There you can learn "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly!"
Me and two of my partners post there on a regular basis - probably 1000 posts between the three of us. The best thing about that site is people can learn that oil is more than just a "brown liquid" --- and that the Base Oils and the Additive Packages are all different for all oils - and that is The Difference
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Big Blue QC,
You have been an Amsoil convert for a long time and have UOA's (Used Oil Analysis) to back up your enthusiasm for Amsoil products. Thanks for offering to share the information with everyone.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/12/2003
16:37:01
| Amsoil AMSOIL AMSoil = American Synthetic Oil
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Gilbert,
The above mentioned website is a very good one and I have mentioned it here before. That is where I learned about Auto-RX (good) --- that Mobil1 is misleading with their advertisement: "Nothing Outperforms Mobil1" (bad), and about the holes in K&N air filters that are the size of small grains of sand if you hold them up to the light (ugly). There you can learn "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly!"
Me and two of my partners post there on a regular basis - probably 1000 posts between the three of us. The best thing about that site is people can learn that oil is more than just a "brown liquid" --- and that the Base Oils and the Additive Packages are all different for all oils - and that is The Difference
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Big Blue QC,
You have been an Amsoil convert for a long time and have UOA's (Used Oil Analysis) to back up your enthusiasm for Amsoil products. Thanks for offering to share the information with everyone.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/12/2003
16:40:37
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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I know for a FACT that I only hit the "Post Now" button once.
How did I wind up with two identical posts?
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/13/2003
00:12:21
| RE: motor oil site
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I have one of the few 4.7 UOAs posted at this site. Amsoil ATM 10-30, 9,987 miles, oil performed very well. I have the Amsoil S2k in now and will be posting it`s results too.
I drive a lot so the added cost of oil is worth it because I can take advantage of extended drains. No more than 12k, oil won`t hold up much longer than that. The 25 and 35k drain intervals are for ideal conditions only(and with oil analysis).
Oil analysis results on Subaru motors show that they wear really well. They tend to have less wear metals than other motors at similar mileage. So far the 4.7 seems to wear pretty well too.
big blue, It would be nice if you took a few minutes and posted your results on that site. The more comparisons the better.
Steven, Whats your user name there?
03 qc 4.7 auto 4x4 21k
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Gilberttribe
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/13/2003
11:30:13
| RE: motor oil site
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I will try to post my three past reports using Mobil 1 today.
On a different, but related subject, when will AMSoil come out with a Xw20 oil beyond the current XL-7500 5w20? I get the impression the XL-7500 oils aren't very impressive for the price. I would prefer to use a Xw20 in another vehicle (Honda) I have since that's what is specified.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/13/2003
11:51:50
| Amsoil & Motor Oil Site - Xw-20
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Gilbert,
AMSOIL developed the AMSOIL XL-7500 back in 1997 to target those potential customers (adverse to extended drain) and to provide a Premium Synthetic Oil for the "Quick Lube" industry to offer to their customers.(7500 mile change vs 3000 mile change), and fully API certified.
The AMSOIL XL-7500 Motor Oils have proven to be a more profitable oil for quick lubes while providing motorists with a cost savings over using petroleum oil and changing it every 3,000 miles, It's a win / win situation for the quick lube owner and the consumer as well.
AMSOIL XL-7500 Synthetic Motor Oils are specially formulated to provide outstanding wear protection, power, fuel economy and performance for 7,500 miles or six months of service. With AMSOIL XL-7500 Synthetic Motor Oils, motorists driving 15,000 miles a year need only change their oil twice annually. AMSOIL XL-7500 Synthetic Motor Oils offer a high degree of convenience and savings through their ability to perform and protect engines for extended periods.
__________________________________________________
Read this thread which I believe addresses your question regarding Xw-20 oils.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003809#000000
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/13/2003
13:27:12
| Amsoil XL-7500 Hydrocracked Synthetic Oil
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Gilbert,
I forgot to state:
AMSOIL developed the AMSOIL XL-7500 back in 1997, as per my discussion above, and the XL-7500 is a Group III Hydrocracked Synthetic. Amsoil XL-7500 (and Castrol) put up some of the best UOA's within the hydrocracked Group III Synthetic Oil market. Amsoil XL-7500 is Amsoil's ONLY Group III Hydrocracked Synthetic Oil. For a few pennies more per quart a customer can buy Amsoil FULL Synthetic.
A TRUE synthetic uses either the Group IV or Group V base oil, or a mix of the two, plus their own unique additives package. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the TRUE synthetics use all of one, they mix a combination of both. Group IV is PAOs (Polyalfaolefins) while Group IV is the esters.
Repeat: IMHO ... Amsoil XL-7500 and Castrol put up some of the best UOA's within the hydrocracked Group III Synthetic Oil market.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Gilberttribe
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/13/2003
19:32:16
| RE: motor oil site
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Message:
Steven,
Thanks for the information, and thank you for sponsoring this site. I gather from your somewhat indirect answer that AMSoil is not fond of 20 weight oils, and I won't argue with that. I'm sure you have noticed several good reports from people using 20 weight oils.
My issue is that I drive 1000 miles per month, and I want to extend oil drain intervals to 7500 miles (acceptable in owner's manual). Therefore, AMSoil gives me the choice of changing oil every 6000 miles (XL-7500), or using a 30 weight oil (not recommended by the manufacture, ie. the company responsible for my warranty work).
I was referring to the following thread regarding my comments on the XL-7500 oil:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000762#000000
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2003
21:43:30
| RE: motor oil site
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Message:
Gilbert can you clarify 30 weight not being recommended by Dodge, am I misreading this?
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BillB
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/14/2003
06:12:28
| RE: motor oil site
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Message:
jeremiah
You read it wrong. He was talking about his Honda.
Honda recommends 20 weight, not your friendly Dodge guy.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/14/2003
08:17:32
| Amsoil Oil Analysis and XL-7500
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Gilbert,
Analysis is not the END ALL to understanding how well a particular oil holds up in an engine. So ... let's first talk Oil Analysis:
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A UOA (Used Oil Analysis) is a trend analysis "per vehicle" and reports will be different "per vehicle". You can not compare across brands or between vehicles. UOA's are not used to determine "oil quality"
Oil analysis can detect:
Fuel dilution of lubrication oil
Dirt contamination in the oil
Antifreeze in the oil
Excessive bearing wear
Misapplication of lubricants
Some wear is normal, but abnormal levels of a particular material can give an early warning of impending problems and possibly prevent a major breakdown.
Early detection can:
Reduce repair bills
Reduce catastrophic failures
Increase machinery life
Reduce non-scheduled downtime
Early detection with oil analysis can allow for corrective action such as repairing an air intake leak before major damage occurs. Probably one of the major advantages of an oil analysis program is being able to anticipate problems and schedule repair work to avoid downtime during a critical time of use.
Oil analysis involves sampling and analyzing oil for various properties and materials to monitor wear and contamination in an engine, transmission or hydraulic system. Sampling and analyzing on a regular basis establishes a baseline of normal wear and can help indicate when abnormal wear or contamination is occurring.
Oil analysis works like this. Oil that has been inside any moving mechanical apparatus for a period of time reflects the exact condition of that assembly. Oil is in contact with engine or mechanical components as wear metallic trace particles enter the oil. These particles are so small they remain in suspension. Many products of the combustion process also will become trapped in the circulating oil. The oil becomes a working history of the machine.
Particles caused by normal wear and operation will mix with the oil. Any externally caused contamination also enters the oil. By identifying and measuring these impurities, you get an indication of the rate of wear and of any excessive contamination. An oil analysis also will suggest methods to reduce accelerated wear and contamination.
The typical oil analysis tests for the presence of a number of different materials to determine sources of wear, find dirt and other contamination, and even check for the use of appropriate lubricants.
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Regarding the information on the link you posted,
It is difficult to read all the comments there, some being from experts and some from friendships developed after visiting that site regularly for 3 years ... without some of their opinions making it into my conversation.
That being said ... I'd like to make a few comments:
#1) (remembering that oil analyis is a "trend" analysis") ... We were never told what oil was in that engine prior to the switch to Amsoil XL-7500 ... or how many miles were on the prior oil. If the driver went over the limit with Amsoil ... you must be concerned that maybe he did not respect the prior oil either ... and perhaps drove it too many miles before switching (just a thought). That, plus if he did not respect his engine for the entire 84,000 miles on the odometer ... you can't trust the current analysis (we could be dealing with a less than well maintained engine). To make a proper analysis you have to know a bit about the history of the vehicle. Conclusion: the first change using Amsoil should NOT have been driven over the mileage limit of 7500 miles, ... and he should not have asked for an analysis discussion until the second batch ro get a more accurate reading. Therefore, what we see is a corrupted analysis.
#2) The owner did drive over the 7,500 mileage limit (8751 miles to be exact, 1251 miles over the recommended life expectancy of the oil), and again ... we don't know what he was using before and his oil change intervals.
#3) I know that the 2.2L Camry engine is known to be harder on oil than many other cars. (My Secretary drives one).
Bottom Line ... all things considered ... This report is ok, and the analysis and the oil is pretty good.
This oil was only manufactured to satisfy the full API requirements for Warranty concerns of the Quickie Lubes. Let's not forget ... API sets MINIMUM Standards ... ALL AMSOIL PRODUCTS EXCEED API MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS, but it is cost prohibitive to API Certify all oils. Once an oil is API Certified you can not adjust the formulation and the company is "locked in" and can not make improvements without going through the entire API process again. (I recently posted a complete article on this subject).
Amsoil XL-7500 is a very good product, ... I just think it's over priced. The "XL-" line is manufactured for people that feel that they MUST BUY API Certified oil ... ( and for the record ... many oils are not API Certified including Redline and many others. Remember, API is a MINIMUM Standard).
The oil analysis report your mentioned is being analyzed. We have NO concept of what was in this car before and for how long, how well the vehicle has been maintained, and a lot of information is missing.
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/14/2003
08:57:10
| Amsoil and API Certification
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Gilbert, In conclusion to my above comments:
Why aren't all AMSOIL motor oils API licensed?
Amsoil has the perfect response:
AMSOIL staffers have recently read some message boards with misinformation regarding this issue. Let us address API licensing in depth, as well as the issue of warranties. Some AMSOIL motor oils are API licensed, some are not. If you're concerned about your warranty and feel pressures to use an API licensed oil, even after reading this answer, then the 5W-30 (XLF), 5W-20 (XLM) or 10W-30 (XLT) XL-7500 or our 15W-40 (PCO) API licensed oils should be your choice. If you are looking for an alternative to frequent oil changes or just want the best performing oil for your car, then one of our top tier non-API licensed synthetic oils are for you. Read on, and decide for yourself.
API Licensing - Passenger Cars - What is it?
An API (American Petroleum Institute) license indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical, chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy, emissions, etc. The committee is comprised of representatives from automobile, oil and additive companies.
Costs
The cost for running a test program for a single passenger car motor oil formulation is from $125,000 to $300,000, depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average. (That amount goes to $275,000 to $500,000 for a Heavy Duty Diesel licensing program on a specific formula.) Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed for $825 per year for non-members and $625 per year for members. There is also a small royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs.
Who Licenses What Formulas?
Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Ethyl,, Infinium and Oronite, develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs associated with testing. This, however, tends to commoditize the market. The same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. Most of the major oil companies do have their own proprietary formulas developed, tested and licensed. All of AMSOIL INC.'s lubricant formulas are unique and proprietary.
Flexibility In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula
API licensing was originally developed for mineral based oils, and it affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.
Mineral oils comprised of group I and Group II petroleum basestocks may use a simple program called basestock interchange for added flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor engine tests an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum basestocks from many different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive pricing. However, basestock interchange for Group III and V synthetic basestocks is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with an ester (Group V) basestock from a specific supplier, then anyone blending that formula must buy only that supplier's ester. Complete engine testing would need to be performed on the formula using another supplier's ester before an oil company could buy it from that alternative supplier. This additional testing is normally not performed because of the associated costs. This inflexibility makes it very difficult for synthetic lubricant manufacturers to negotiate prices with synthetic basestock suppliers. Click HERE for more information about Group I through Group V basestocks.
There is also something called viscosity grade read-across. Fortunately, this applies to both petroleum and synthetic basestocks although the better cold temperature performance of synthetics makes it more difficult to achieve in some situations. (That's another whole story.) What this means is that if you properly formulate the lubricant for which you have run all of the API tests, there are guidelines that allow you to use that same formula to make 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc. viscosity motor oil.
Finally, there is a rule for substitutions in the CMA (Chemical Manufacturers Association) code of practice that allows a small degree of flexibility for all formulas. It allows a company to change the percentages of components in the formula by varying amounts from the original formula with limited testing and paperwork requirements. For example, if the licensed formula used 10% of a certain V.I. improver, you would have the ability to utilize from 9% to 11% of the same V.I. improver for your formula.
Key Limitations For API Licensed Formulas
Phosphorous content - .10% maximum
(API SL; 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 viscosity grades, only)
NOACK volatility - 15% maximum
The prevalent sources of phosphorous in motor oils are additives called zinc dithiophosphates (ZDTPs). Currently, these versatile additives act as oxidation/corrosion inhibitors and aid in the ability of a lubricant to reduce wear. The automobile manufacturers, however, have demanded that lubricants contain a maximum of only .10% phosphorous. Their reason is that some manufacturers believe that higher phosphorous content levels will poison the catalytic converters on their cars before they reach 150,000 miles, which is the number of miles that their vehicles will be required to pass EPA emission standards. There has not been total agreement within the automotive and lubrication industry about whether phosphorous levels over .10% actually do harm catalytic converters in the long run. What they have failed to make allowances for is the NOACK volatility of an oil.
The maximum allowable NOACK volatility percentage for the new SL/GF-3 passenger car motor oil specification is 15%. Most of AMSOIL motor oils are in the 5% to 8% NOACK volatility range. Studies have shown there is a correlation between NOACK volatility, oil consumption and the amount of phosphorous from motor oil that will end up in the exhaust gasses. Therefore, oils with higher levels of phosphorous but with low volatility, such as AMSOIL motor oils, present no more risk to catalytic converters than low phosphorous oils with higher NOACK volatility. This has also been demonstrated for years in actual application through state mandated exhaust gas testing on our Dealers' and customers' high mileage vehicles using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils. State inspectors are continually amazed at the low emissions levels generated by vehicles using AMSOIL products. So much for poisoning catalytic converters.
AMSOIL INC. has determined that the reduced wear and extended drain intervals achievable with phosphorous levels higher than the API limit of .10% are real benefits for the consumer, and pose no risk to catalytic converters. AMSOIL motor oils, except for the API licensed XL-7500 5W-30, 5W-20 and 10W-30 viscosity grades, all have greater than .10% phosphorous levels, and therefore, cannot be API licensed.
Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not
1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not only would we find it necessary to buy formula components from specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing, we would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to 3 years, without new testing and the associated costs. To solve this problem, the API must establish basestock interchange guidelines for synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.
2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on our motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most AMSOIL motor oils are not API licensed. AMSOIL INC. currently disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and additive life achieved through higher levels of properly balanced phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous levels, or Noack volatility considerations are put in place, then the phosphorous level will become a non-issue.
Warranties And API Licensed Motor Oils
Fortunately, the law does not allow manufacturers to "void your warranty" simply because of the brand of oil you use, the specifications it meets or the miles you drive between oil changes. To be specific, they cannot deny to fix your broken radio, faulty valve or cracked piston because you used an AMSOIL non-API licensed motor oil, or because you've gone more than 3000 miles since your last oil change. Denial of warranty coverage must be specifically due to an oil related failure. All courts of law will find against any manufacturer or dealership that tries these warranty shenanigans. If any automobile dealership insinuates that your warranty will be void if you use AMSOIL products or utilize extended drain intervals, let AMSOIL INC. know the name of the Dealership, the address, the owner's name and the name of the employee that made this statement. Mail to:
AMSOIL INC.
Attention: Technical Services Department
AMSOIL Building
Superior, WI 54880
They will almost never put it in writing, but if they do, please send us a copy of that, too. Either way, we will send them a letter informing them cease the intimidation of our customers.
Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired. That's our pledge to you. AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a claim with our insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and our insurance company would make certain your problem was resolved.
How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?
First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car and heavy duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or synthetic based formulation. Then we work with the additive company to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This is unlike the vast majority of companies who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.
We then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. We also will utilize a highly shear stable V.I. improver to ensure viscosity retention throughout extended drain intervals. This replaces the inexpensive and less shear stable V.I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum formula. We do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. We also continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the World. AMSOIL INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger cars since 1982. No other oil company has such a vast data base of the performance of synthetic lubricants over extended drain intervals.
AMSOIL INC.'s products and formulations outperform API licensed oils. They're engineered that way. Period.
Conclusion
AMSOIL INC. takes pride in never having conformed to industry norms or standards when those standards are contrary to peak performance. We introduced synthetics to the automotive world in 1972 with the first synthetic motor oil to exceed API performance specifications. At that time other manufacturers refused to recognize the superior performance of synthetic motor oils. Now, however, most companies sell synthetic lubricants, vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor oils and gear lubes, and some manufacturers even offer extended warranties if you use synthetics. AMSOIL has always offered extended drain intervals because the oil was capable of performing for extended drains, and it was the right thing to do for the consumer. Now the entire industry is moving in that direction. Ironically, it was recently published that automotive manufacturers will be recommending extended drain intervals of up to 15,000 miles in the near future because that's what consumers want.
AMSOIL is a company of firsts. That doesn't happen by always conforming to industry norms and standards.
API licensing of lubricants is voluntary, and it ensures automobile manufacturers and consumers that the product meets a set of minimum standards. Should these standards, in the future, be raised to a level consistent with AMSOIL's standards for motor oil performance, AMSOIL will consider licensing all oils. For those that feel pressured to use an API licensed product, we have them and encourage you to use them (XLT, XLM, XLF and PCO). AMSOIL does offer better performing motor oils that are not API licensed for all of the reasons explained in this response. They provide our customers with alternatives to the commodity products typically available in the market today. If you want the convenience of extended drain intervals or the top performance from your vehicle, AMSOIL has taken time to engineer the very best money can buy.
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Anyone interested in requesting a FREE Amsoil Catalog can click the link below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/14/2003
12:10:12
| RE: motor oil site
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Message:
Steven, You state that UOAs are not used to determine oil quality. How else would we know that Royal Purple shears down. That Mobil Tri-Syn thins while the new Super Synthetic has a changed formula that stays in grade. TBNs,wear rates etc, all show the oils quality.
No flame intended Steven, just polite disagreement.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/14/2003
13:23:11
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Message:
I stand by this:
Analysis is not the END ALL to understanding how well a particular oil holds up in an engine. A UOA (Used Oil Analysis) is a trend analysis "per vehicle" and reports will be different "per vehicle" (using the same oil brand and viscosity). (simply put)You can not compare across brands or between vehicles. UOA's are not used to determine "oil quality". (Rather ... how the oil performed in a particular engine ... and for early detection of an engine problem to allow for early corrective action before a major repair might becone necessary).
I hope this is clear.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Gilberttribe
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/14/2003
18:49:16
| RE: motor oil site
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Message:
I posted my UOA results on Bob's site.
Steven,
Technically, I agree with what you said, but I also think it is a lot of rhetoric (quality versus performance) and much too limited in scope. We certainly couldn't compare the results of a motor oil in one vehicle (Honda civic) against that of another (Dakota). However, I think you can begin to compare similar vehicles under similar conditions. In addition, once a number of reports are available then the fundamental laws of statistics kick in. Given enough samples, trends can be identified and we can get a pretty good idea of how an oil "generally" performs.
Even excluding statistics, I think jeremiah2360 makes a valid point. Using your line of reasoning, then your website should say
More Horsepower in a particular engine
More Miles Per Gallon in a particular engine
More Protection From Friction and Wear in a particular engine
I thought jeremiah2360's UOA report was impressive and I'll be switching to AMSoil if my UOA with Mobil 1 isn't very similar. I realize my numbers may never match his, but it would be worth testing based on our UOAs.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/14/2003
19:02:52
| Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants & Filtration Products
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Jeremiah and Gilbert,
I think that we can conclude that we agree.
A UOA establishes a "trend" within a certain engine, AND ... "Given enough samples, trends can be identified and we can get a pretty good idea of how an oil "generally" performs."
Excellent, and I think that is why Amsoil has maintained their superiority for over 30 years.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/15/2003
07:48:54
| Amsoil - Oil Analysis - First in Synthetics
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Gilbert and Jeremiah,
Good Morning! ... and I enjoyed the lively debate.
Nah! My website says it like this:
More Horsepower (as demonstrated on dynameter tests - results may differ)
More Miles Per Gallon (as demonstrated - but results may vary)
More Protection From Friction and Wear (True Statement)
... and let us not forget ...
Better cold weather starting due to lower pour points
Reduced oil consumption
Reduced emissions, due to lower volatility
Cooler running at high temperatures and under severe conditions.
Etc., Etc., Etc.
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FYI ---
Amsoil uses and recommends Oil Analyzers, Inc. You can find their information in your Amsoil catalog. Reminder ... you are not looking for raw #'s ... but also an interpretation of those #'s.
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FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES -----
Cost and Convenience of Oil Analysis:
The cost of an oil analysis will vary according to the laboratory and extent of the analysis. Typical charges are $10 to $30 per analysis. The expense easily can be justified if it alerts the owner of a major problem that can be corrected and will help prevent downtime when the vehicle or machine is needed.
Several companies have developed oil analysis kits that make oil analysis convenient. These kits include the sample bottles, suction pump and tubing, and possibly a pre-addressed, postage-paid mailing container.
The reasonable cost and convenience of oil analysis for use makes it another management tool that should be considered by anyone wanting to do preventive maintenance.
You should use a lab that is familiar with the additive chemstry of the oil you are using. For instance ... testing Amsoil, I'd use Oil Analyzers, Inc., and for all you Mobil1 users, AV Lube. I think you will get more accurate data on oxidation, nitration, TBN, etc., etc., if you do this. Also, Blackstone Labs & Dyson Analysis are two very good oil analysis companies (best for Redline), and you can also check the Yellow Pages for someone nearby.
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Once you order the "sampling kit" follow the directions very close so as to NOT contaminate the sample. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
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In Closing --- Another purpose of oil analysis is to provide a means of predicting possible impending failure without dismantling the equipment. A person can "look inside" an engine, transmission or hydraulic systems without taking it apart.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Owen
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/02/2004
08:44:31
|  RE: motor oil site
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Oils Aint Oils!
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