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Dirty D
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
16:35:14
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 Subject: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
My parents own a 98 Mercury Mountaineer, and are getting new tires because of the recall.
We have narrowed it down to two choices
My choice-
BFG Long Trail TA
Their Choice-
Michelin LTX M&S
What are y'alls opinion on this situation??
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
16:40:34
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
D, have you heard of the mich cross terain? its a new tire made specificly for suv's (the first of its kind) the ride is excelent and the tread pattern is desined to keep road noise down. also it has dura black in the rubber compound. it protects it from the uv rays so the tire dosent crack from weather.
Eric
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Hawkeye
Dakota Enthusiast
6/13/2001
16:51:54
|  RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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I am very biased towards the BFG's.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
Jet Power
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Blizzard
Gen III
6/13/2001
16:53:14
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
I'm with Hawkeye on that one.
'01 QC 4x4
5.9L, 3.92 LSD, loaded
www.geocities.com/blizzzzard69
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Dirty D
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
16:58:30
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
I would rather have the BFG's too. But my Dad has talked to some tire retailers and he is more inclined towards the Michelins.
Yes I have heard of the Michelin SUV cross terrain and would like to try them too, but they are not on the replacement list that Ford will give you credit for.
My dad said the retailers told him that
MICHELIN OWNS BF GOODRICH?? I don't know about that one, but what ever.
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
17:06:13
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
yes mich does own BFG, and also uniroyal. i would go with the mich, but if you do go with the BFG's remember on the long trail, the tread is made to ride better if you mount the white letters out.
Eric
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Dirty D
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
17:11:27
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
Hey Y'all,
Thank you so much for the quick replies. Man, I love this site.
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Ryan Kane
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
19:57:55
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
Guess what. Michelin owns and manufactures all BFG tires since 1986. They kept the "BFG" name, but Michelin bought them out a long time ago. You can see this for yourself at the BFG website. You will see a link there that will explain this and take you to the Michelin site. In fact, Michelin bought out a lot of the tire companies, not just BFG.
http://www.bfgoodrich.com/index.asp
Click where it says "discontinued business" near the bottom.
I would go with the BFG tires all the way, however.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/13/2001
22:13:45
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Goodyear is way better then Mich and BFG in both tire preformance and Looks. Goodyear uses computer software way more complicated and efficient to design there tires. It is the same computer that nasa used to simulate wear on the space shuttle. Goodyear also has a UV protectent built into the inside of the tire and as you drive forces it to the surface which totally takes car of cracks in the tires. I have owned all the tires that everyone talks about and the ones i like the best are GOODYEAR AT/S and HT and HP. The rest are crap and if you buy them you will think goodyear are crap. I found that the AT/S will out preform the BFG AT in any condition SNOW, ICE, RAIN, GRAVLE (Really good in gravle)and were about the same in mud. Plus they lasted longer and i do a lot of highway. I had these tires on a durango and i could spin the BFGs on dry pavement but the goodyears would hook up and barly give me a squeel. Anyway good luck.
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Hawkeye
Dakota Enthusiast
6/13/2001
22:29:21
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Just for comparison, I had some Goodyear AT/S recently and they we ok but no where nere as good off road as BFG's. I have been using BFG's for 11 years. Have tried a few others but the BFG's have won for me everytime. Everyone's experiences are different I guess. Here in Florida you see very few 4x4's with GY. WE have a LOT of 4x4's too.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
Jet Power
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
01:00:09
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
I work in a tire shop, and i just went to a michelin , and bridgestone siminar. mich has the highest tech equipment available (they use the same type of super computer that NASA uses)
I dont know how you guy's drive but i drive verry agressive (when no one is around of corse) and the michelin's i have now (XGT-Z4) is the best tire i have ever owned
hmmm... i wonder why the viper comes with mich pilot sports, and the vett comes with goodyear's
good tires for a good car, and crappy tires for a crappy car.
Eric
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
10:32:42
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
I have seen the new viper 2003. It had goodyears on it. Also i live in canada and drive in a lot of snow. I am not talking about how the tires drive on the road i am talking about road and off road compined. If i only wanted to drive on the road i would buy preformance tires and if i wanted to drive of the road i would get 44s. But when you need a tire that does both really well i recommend goodyear AT/S or HP they are smooth and stable and the AT/S has gotten me through deeper snow and stopped me faster in rain and gravle then BFG. Mich is simply a tire for people that should have bought a car because in snow its like having skis on your car.
Just for example Brigestone makes blizzaks and mich makes arctic alpines for cars and in every diffrent test condected they were both seriously out preformed in all conditions by the goodyear eagle ultra ice grip but and they last longer on the dry pavement. Mich and brigestone needed to use a rubber/foam mix and goodyear used a rubber/silica mix. Goodyear has the best compounds out right now for there preformance tire they have ATTRAX compound which once again out preforms everyone but lasts longer. Plus ferrari just switched from pirelli to goodyear because they realized that they were the best and unlike all the american and japan companies ferrari doesnt go to the lowest bidder they go to the best preformer.
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
12:10:05
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
i dont know where you get your info from but bridgestone uses the cilica mix also.
another thing, ferrari just gave bridgestone an award for there tires on formula one cars.
i think its kinda funny that when bridgestone came into formula one, and started winning everythng, goodyear dropped out completely.
the tires that came on my dak were GY, and they only lasted 15k miles, and they looked like a slick. all the tires i had scence then lasted longer, and rode better. hell even my Z-ratted michelins are holding up better.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
13:41:35
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
Goodyear dropped out of F1 because they were losing money in it and in cart because in europe Bridgestone was more popular. But isn't it funney how The Ferrari team was using goodyear right to the end and winning everything including the championship even when bridgestone was compeating. If goodyear had a market in F1 Bridgestone would have be wiped out. Its the same reason why goodyear dominates nascar. They already kicked out Hoosier and the rest are to affraid or smart to try. Oh and bridgestone doesnt use cilica or silica they use a foam that there scientis call LL.Carbon Which will just melt on dry roads. Goodyear uses silica and the other stuff is for computer chips. Im not trying to get into a fight with any one i just dont know why a tire company as good as GOODYEAR which has won all the races including the 24H at leMans and praised by all that used it in the rain, That has won more races than all other tire companies combined, is the choice for smaller types of racing leagues, Is on the US armys hummers and Most airplains, Owns the biggest japanise tire manufactour which has rights on Dunlop and comes up with all the new technology gets put down and not respected on this web sight. And Kota on 20s i also got the stock set of GY on my truck and put over 80000 on them then replaced them for a better more aggressive tread but for you to be able to burn them up in 15000K is Hard to belive. Thats almost as bad as hearing about the hundreds of ford explores that rolled over thanks to the tire that people would like to put on there trucks before goodyear.
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Savatruck
Dakota Enthusiast
6/14/2001
13:57:00
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Dude Mar, it wasn't the tire's fault! live with it! a tire blows out... no biggie! tires do that. a tire blows out and the vehicle flips over... this is a vehicle design flaw, not a tire problem, after the investigation the NHTSA will say the exact same thing
Drink Coke, the sweet Brown nectar of the gods.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
14:00:26
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
Ok fine i can see your point that ford is just covering up and how this is just a ploy to make it sound like it was the tires problem but lets wait and see what happend from this NHTSA report that firestone is requesting.
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kotaon20s
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
19:59:06
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
goodyear dropped out of F1 raceing back when the McLarin team won. (three years or so agao) and the McLarin had bridgestones on it. there is not a market for GY because all the cars switched to BS and started winning, so GY dropped out.
As far as nas car goes. GY sined a contract with nascar stating GY is the only suplier for thoes cars. BS wants to get into it but cant because of the contract.
and as far as my stock tirs go yes i did turn them into slicks in 15k miles. you must have magical goodyears on your truck! all i know from MY experience is GOODYEAR SUCKS!! and i will never own another set of GY's
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Ryan Kane
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
20:06:13
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
When it comes to an All-Terrain tire, I chose the BF Goodrich T/A's, especially since they have a 3-ply sidewall rating. Does GY have a 3-ply sidewall rating?
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/14/2001
23:57:28
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
Yes goodyear has 3 ply sidewall ratings and there premier off road tire the MT/R has the strongest sidewall in the industry. And no goodyear has a contract with NASCAR only because they kicked everyone else out like hoosier in 1989 others have come and gone. Goodyear stopped development for F1 and Cart Long before there tires were no longer used i would say back in 96. No more research was done and slowly the others caught up.
Did any of you see 24 hours at daytona. All the tires were doing great until it started to rain That is when the goodyear tires dominated and won 1st and 2nd and most of the other cars that one where using dunlops which are also goodyears. Bridgestone couldnt touch them and they are F1 experts. Or are they. Here is a quote from a driver at 24H at daytona "All the tires were great but when it started to rain the Goodyear tires really started to show its dominance. Its like it wasn't even raining." Ron Fellows.
Now i dont want to call you a liar but unless you drove the piss out of your truck and even then to turn a Goodyear RT/S in to a slick in under 15k is kind of hard to swallow since there UTOG tread wear rating is 340 and BFG is 440 meening that if you only got 15k on the goodyear you could only get 30 on the Bfg. Plus the reason michelin and bfg have such a high rating is that there rubber is really hard and all that does for you is give you a really crappy tire in the rain and snow. Goodyear Is the Godfather of tires the rest are just followers.
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Hawkeye
Dakota Enthusiast
6/15/2001
00:46:02
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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I'm not saying that I dont like Goodyears. I just know that when it rains, the RTS's on the wifes 4x4 Durango will break loose pretty easy but the BFG's on my Dak are pretty hard to get them to slip. BFG's have ruled the off road racing circuit for many years. Actually the rubber compound in the BFG's is quite soft. That is why they dont last quite as long as others on the road. They wear faster but are very sticky. That is also why they are popular with the rock crawling crowd. I have used BFG's for 11 years and they are the only tire that I have not gotten stuck with. The set of AT/S that I had were very nice tires no doubt, but they just didnt go quite as many places as easily as my BFG's have/do. They both have their pluses and minuses. To say that the GY's are the only ones worth anything is not right. The AT/s wont take you as far here in Florida as the BFG's will. Just as a side note. The Cooper AT's are very good tires as well. They are very very close in performance to the BFG's both on and off road. Know someone who has some on his Dak.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
Jet Power
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
6/15/2001
01:12:29
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
my truck came with 215/75R15 GY invicta's (that was in 98) i dont remember what the tread wear ratting was but with only a 215 i could'nt get the best traction. expecially in the rain. which is why i ran the rear tires bald in 15k. scence then i went with a 245/45ZR17 and now im running a 255/35ZR20 both have gave more grip and reduced tire spin. which is the main reason my Z-ratted tires are getting more milege than stocks.
as for the rain and snow issues, i live in southern ca, so snow in not a issue, and the mich XGT-Z4's do a VERRY good job of dispursing water. and the ride is awsome. my friend is so impressed with the ride, he's buying michelins as his next set.
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Ralphp
Dodge Dakota
6/15/2001
01:18:27
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
I know that this isn't exactly related to all-terrain tires, but in the June issue of Petersen's 4 wheel&off-road they did a comparison of nine top-rated mud tires in very deep mud. Out of the top five performing tires, the Good Year MT/R radial was surpassed in traction only by the Super Swamper SSR radial and the Super Swamper Bogger. It even out-performed the Swamper TSL, Gumbo Mudder and the BF Goodrich M/T. I was kind of surprised.
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devon
Dodge Dakota
6/15/2001
13:02:03
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
Still on the tire topic. Is is better to go with the P (passager) or the LT (light truck) tires for a 2wd Dakota? I know the LT has an 6 plier and the P has 4 plier. Any suggestions??
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
6/15/2001
13:42:36
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
devon, if you tow or haul heavy loads go with the LT. if not go with the passenger tire. it will give you a better ride.
Eric
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Ryan Kane
Dodge Dakota
6/15/2001
17:56:07
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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I talked to a GY dealer today. The GY all terrain tire that compares to the BFG (I think AT/S) is only a 2-ply. But their MT/R tire is a 3-ply, and that is the GY "mud" tire. I also talked to a BFG dealer too. The BFG all terrain T/A KO's are the only 3-ply all terrain tire between the two companies.
I think that is why the Rock Crawling world championships here in Utah are sponsored by GY - because of their 3-ply MT/R.
So if I want the BEST all terrain tire, I chose the BFG's. But if I want the BEST mud tire, I will choose the GY's. Both companies make a great tire. It just depends on what you are looking for and what use you want.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/18/2001
09:49:06
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
I still think they are a 3 ply tire. And if there not goodyears 2 are just as good as BFGs 3 because the load rating is the same.
Marty
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Jay
Dodge Dakota
6/18/2001
12:59:11
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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The number of plys (or is it plies) is more important to puncture resistance than to load ratings. Millions of offroaders who use BFGs can't be wrong :)
Jason O.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/18/2001
14:55:28
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
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Message:
It has to do with puncture resistance but what the ply does is stiffen the area right under the bead of the tire. So if 2 of goodyears plys which are made up of polyester, Rayon, and Nylon are as strong as BFGs 3 Polyester ones What does that tell you. Nothing both tires are just as strong and will preform the same. Now i personally have had BFGs and there sidewall rubber is crap compaired to goodyears who even has side lugs to further protect you from curbs and such. I have had BFGS, MICHELINS, BRIDGESTONEs, AND GOODYEARS on the same truck and i drive mostly on dry road but i also go and do a lot of snowmobiling up at my cottage which sometimes meens driving through 1 foot of snow +. I also hunt deep in the woods and need to go through mud and muck up to the bumper and sometimes do get stuck. And on the road going to these places means at least 500 Km of highway on the weekends every week and i drive hard. And goodyear has been the safest most comfortable and best preforming tire on my truck and i have others that have seen this tire and want it for there truck. I dont know how so many of you like BFG and Michelin over Goodyear I can see BFG but michelins tires look pathetic and everything they claim about off road is a lie. And it makes me wonder if you are just buying a tire for the name or for the quality like me. I dont think the half of you understand that even with all season crap tires you can still go through a lot of crap with Limited slip and 4wd in a dakota. But I think you guys are really missing out on a great preformence by goodyear because i have tryed all of the companies best out and goodyear has come on top and i dont see any reason to put tires on my truck that are going to hinder my performence.
Go with goodyear AT/S for your dakota and you wont be sorry.
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Blizzard
Gen III
6/18/2001
15:11:44
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Okay Mar. You put Goodyears on. I'll leave my BFG's on. My BFG tires have never let me down, as I'm sure your Goodyears haven't let you down. I, too, have tried Goodyears, Generals, BFGoodrich, along with other manufacturers.
The debate over tires is just like the debate over mufflers, oil, intakes, headers, and everything else. Each person has their own preference and experiences.
He won't be sorry if he runs BFGoodrich either.
'01 QC 4x4
5.9L, 3.92 LSD, loaded
www.geocities.com/blizzzzard69
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Hawkeye
Dakota Enthusiast
6/18/2001
15:55:18
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Same here. There is a reason why you pretty much only see BFG tires on the SCORE and other off road racing circuits. I am not saying Goodyears arnot good. Just that they are not the best. Also not saying BFG's are the best, but you cant say that all others are inferior to Goodyear. Sorry, as I have said before, I have owned a set of Goodyear AT/S just last year and they are no wonder tire at all. I air my tires down very low at the beach and have not slipped a bead yet. I know for a fact that I could not air down the Goodyears a low as I do my BFG's and not unseat one. The load rating may be the same but I promise you, you will not put a hole in the side wall of a BFG as easily as a Goodyear. Thats why on the new MTR Goodyear went to 3 ply sidewalls. I bet the load rates are the same or very close on them as well. I will say this again. AT/S are very good tires and will take you a lot of places, but so will many other tires. They are not the ONLY good tire out there.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Jet Power
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/18/2001
17:33:45
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Hawkeye I didn't say they were the only good tire out there. I said that in my opinion they are the better tire. We live in diffrent climates you live in florida and i live in canada. For the most part of the year it is close to the climate in florida and during that time tires dont really matter to me except in the rain where both BFGs and Goodyear are good at. But its the snow and really cold temp that requires tires and that is the type of conditions that i base my tires on because any other time of the year my truck doesn't see 2wd. I have found that my BFGs in really cold temp goes very stiff and hard and freezes to the driveway. They are also not good in braking and accel in snow. My goodyears are much better at evacuating the snow and staying soft in the cold although they also go a bit harder. As far as mud goes I have not had a problem with both BFGs and Goodyears and i dont go rock climbing and i never drove on a beach where i needed to lower pressure so Maybe in florida the Bfgs are working for you and your driving style so fine stay with them. I just dont like the comments about goodyear like "I melted them in under 15000k because i have a friend with a s-10 that drives really hard and redused the rear tread on his BFGs about 6mm compaired to the front in under 5000Km. How can a tire company that wins the most races including last weekends Lemans (notice how the moment it started raining only goodyear and dunlop held). It won last years Baja 1000 and won over 350 races in F1 and Cart each. Most cars built by manufactors are tested on somesort of a goodyear tire. Nucular powerplants use goodyear hoses. Fuel stations use goodyear hoses. How can they be made fun of and called crap.
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Blizzard
Gen III
6/18/2001
18:58:19
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Mar,
I think you're misunderstanding this whole discussion. Nobody said Goodyears were bad tires. Nobody said BFG's were the best tires. I live in a cooler climate like you (Michigan) and have never found my BFG's to get any stiffer than any other tire, and I sure haven't seen them freeze to the driveway!!
As I said before, we all have our preferences when it comes to tires. If we didn't, there's only be one manufacturer.
And, unless I'm missing something here, hoses don't even come into play in a tire discussion.
Going waaaaaay back in this discussion, Mar, you were the one saying Michelin and BFG were crap. We're not saying the same about Goodyear.
BFG is OUR preference. And no matter how much you carry on about Goodyear, you won't change our minds! It all comes down to the "preference" thing.
'01 QC 4x4
5.9L, 3.92 LSD, loaded
www.geocities.com/blizzzzard69
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Hawkeye
Dakota Enthusiast
6/18/2001
19:20:55
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Mar thats all we are saying. There are a lot of good tire choices. I suspect that if one was a very aggressive driver and like to "lite up" the tires very often then yeah, any tire could melt at 15000 miles or even less. I have not driven in snow and ice but 1 time on BFG's so I dont know what they will do there. I have to take the word of people like you and Blizzard that have. I am really not trying to argue with you. Please dont misunderstand that. We want you to post your experiences. That is how we all learn from each other. It was just sounding like you were saying that Goodyears were the only tire worth anything. Personal preferance is what it really boils down to. BFG, Goodyear, and many others are all Top level name brand tires that can serve you equally well. Just a side note, the mud we have here really packed into the AT/S I had and didnt clean out quite as easily as the BFG's. I still went everywhere I wanted to with the GY, just not quite as easily as with the BFG's. I recommend them to people just like you recommend the Goodyears.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Jet Power
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lil red dak
Dodge Dakota
6/18/2001
21:50:37
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
1) ply refers only to load carrying not puncture resistance, ask any trucker (from Waaay back in this thread)
2) Scorpions for Baha type off roading. I am not talking rock crawling.
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Hawkeye
Dakota Enthusiast
6/19/2001
06:47:28
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
Actually red dak, The 3 ply's on BFG sidewalls are for puncture resistance. May be differrent on Semi tires.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Jet Power
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
6/19/2001
14:58:44
| RE: BFG vs. Michelin (Tire Quest.)
IP: Logged
Message:
No he is right The ply is for load rating. A ply is a fabric made of either polyester on nylon that is very stiff. It attaches to the bead and supports the sidewall and tire. It is for load rating. Now the tire will be harder to puncture because of the ply there. But like i said before if the load rating is the same it most likly means that the sidewall will be just as hard to penetrate.
Sorry to all if i offended you and your brand of tires. I really like the subject and think high of goodyear. And i just heard this morning that the michelins and BFGs are twice as likly to fail on the explorer as the firestones and goodyears were about the same as firestone. (Yes even goodyears.) So i guess the problem is not the tires but the truck. So i am sorry SAVATRUCK you were right the problem is definitly ford. Can you imagine if they have to replace all the explorers. That could heart them big time. Its there best selling vehicle. So sorry to all but its back to talking about dodge.
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