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JPMontgomey
Dodge Dakota
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10/01/2003
07:07:03
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 Subject: Redline w Esters Bad?
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If esters in oil cause seals to swell, what conteracts this when using Redline? I was going to ask this in the other Red Line thread going around but I am lazy. Does anyone know of a single case where seals were ruined by Red Line or another ester based oil?
Is this a theoretical danger (played up by Mobil 1 on their website)??? I know of no examples where this has ever happened. I hate Mobil 1 for posting nonsense like this. I guess they are like McDonalds and realize the little guys (Redline, RP, AMSOIL) are making real inroads and beating down their bottom line. I feel Redline and RP and AMSOIL are superior and I think Mobil 1 is feeling the heat. Especially in our class where we are performance driven with our trucks.
I've been running Redline with no leakage problems.
Comments?!?!
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
 
10/01/2003
08:54:40
|  Redline Amsoil Royal Purple Esters
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JP,
I think the Mobil1 comments need clarification. Additives? PAOs tend to leach plasticizer out of seals making them less elastic and they can experience slight shrinkage. Esters counteract this in synthetic oils expanding them slightly.
Additives are added to ALL synthetic base oils and ALL dino oils to create a fine balance so that there is no seal damage or leakage.
You are correct. The Mobil1 warning is a theoretical danger --- NO TRUTH --- that is played up by Mobil1 on their website. For the record, Mobil1 also incorporates esters into their formulas. I would not be concerned. Motul (respected) is a heavy user of Esters and in some cases 100% ester based.
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Without going into a lot of Tribology debate ... I hope this answers your question. Royal Purple, Redline and Amsoil all use similar (but also very different) additives packages. Amsoil has been in the synthetic motor oil industry for 30 years. Amsoil was the first to develop synthetic oils for passenger vehicle use and the first to offer superior oils for extended drains. Even Redline issued a press release stating that some (but not Redline) synthetic oils ARE IN FACT capable of going 25k miles between changes. Too bad they did not mention Amsoil by name.
One of the benefits of synthetic oils is that they have a superior detergent package over dino oils. The detergents in synthetic oils help to clean and remove deposits. The detergents are compatible with all seal materials and will not harm mechanical components.
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Bottom Line: (from one of my favorite songs): "Don't Worry ... Be Happy!"
Anyone interested iun receiving a FREE Amsoil Catalog can click the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Max
Dodge Dakota
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10/01/2003
10:19:48
| RE: Redline w Esters Bad?
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Steven,
What are the list of additives possible for components of engine oil?
What are their benefits / hazards?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/01/2003
12:27:31
| Amsoil Additives = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Max,
Here's a list of the functions additives are needed for:
Detergents: Similar to household detergents, except that they work in oil not water. They neutralize impurities in the oil to prevent deposit formation on engine parts. Available in different strengths, they can either prevent further deposits from forming or clean up deposits that have already formed.
Dispersants: These molecules bond to contaminants in the oil to keep them from clumping together. Contaminants are then kept suspended in the oil until they can be removed by a filter or oil change.
Antiwear/Extreme Pressure Agents: These agents bond to metal surfaces to create a strong lubricant film between moving metal parts. This film can withstand extreme heat and mechanical pressure to keep metal parts separated, protecting them from scoring and seizing.
Friction Modifiers: In effect, they make oil more slippery by reducing the friction between moving parts. This both reduces wear and improves fuel efficiency.
Antioxidants: Even highly-refined base oils contain some organic compounds that can decompose in the presence of heat. This destroys an oil's ability to lubricate and results in severe engine deposits. Antioxidants retard this process.
Rust/Corrosion Inhibitors: Prevent the corrosion and rusting of metal parts in contact with the lubricant by neutralizing the effects of water and acid that inevitably contaminate oil during engine operation.
Pour Point Depressants: Allow oil to remain more fluid at lower ambient temperatures. Oil can then reach engine parts more quickly during cold-cranking when the potential for engine wear is great.
Antifoam Agents: Retard the formation of foam in oil that can result from the mechanical action of the engine. Foam reduces an oil's ability to lubricate effectively.
Seal Conditioners: Swell the elastomeric engine seals to prevent fluid leakage.
Metal Deactivators: An inactive film on metal surfaces that reduces the tendency of the metal to react with the oil in ways that increase the rate of oil oxidation.
Viscosity Modifiers: Temperature affects viscosity grade, making an oil either thicker or thinner. This hurts its ability to protect engine parts at temperature extremes. Viscosity modifiers are flow control agents that allow the oil structure to adapt to temperature changes, maintain its grade, and retain its lubricating effectiveness. This is what makes multigrade oils possible.
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Interested in a FREE Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil Catalog click below:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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EyeTrip
R/T
10/01/2003
12:37:20
| RE: Redline w Esters Bad?
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Message:
Long Live Mobil 1 !!!!! HAHAHAHA
Powerdyne 6#, M1, 24# FMS, MP Headers, Transgo shit kit, MSD/BTM ignition, MAP tweak, relocated IAT, MP PCM,
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Huh?
Dodge Dakota
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10/01/2003
13:11:07
| RE: Redline w Esters Bad?
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Message:
Royal Purple, Redline and Amsoil all use similar (but also very different) additives packages.
similar, but also very different???
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/01/2003
13:53:17
| RE: Redline w Esters Bad?
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Message:
First ...
To EyeTrip,
What are you trying to accomplish? We all know that you are the "Mobil1 Lover" and the Amsoil Flamer. Now that you understand that everyone knows your identy, what is the purpose of your posts? I answered J.P and Max's questions without saying anything negative about redline.
P.S. What is EXXON/Mobil paying you to be their sponsor? Would you like to see my monthly Amsoil commission check? I would show you but I'm afraid that you might choke on it and I'm certainly not going to give you mouth-to-mouth.
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To Huh?,
Regarding your comment: "Royal Purple, Redline and Amsoil all use similar (but also very different) additives packages. similar, but also very different???"
Similar ... YES!
Base Oils + Detergents, Dispersants, Antiwear/Extreme Pressure Agents, Friction Modifiers, Antioxidants, Rust/Corrosion Inhibitors, Pour Point Depressants, Antifoam Agents
Different ... YES!
There is an optimal amount of moly/boron/zinc/phosphorous/calcium, etc., ... and the type/form/percentage of each is critical to each particular oils optimum performance.
Each manufacturer sets it's own parameters within certain minimum specifications (as outlined by SAE - which ONLY sets minimum's by the way) to hit a certain price vs. quality target. Amsoil Synthetic Oils EXCEED those SAE minimum requirements. A company that simply MEETS the minimum may have a less robust additive package to "save on production costs" during manufacturing & blending. For this reason you will find them priced cheaper in the marketplace.
You always get what you pay for!
For instance ... If you simply wanted four wheels and an engine you could have bought an Isuzu rather than a Dodge Dakota.
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/01/2003
14:29:54
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Message:
My Bad,
Upon review I meant to say API and not SAE.
I was filling out an order form for 25 cases of Amsoil SAE oil at the same time I was typing the above response.
API = (American Petroleum Institute)An API license indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the MINIMUM (repeat MINIMUM) performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical, chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy, emissions, etc.
Sorry for the confusion.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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10/02/2003
20:32:46
|  RE: Redline w Esters Bad?
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Ohh No .... It's EyeDrip again ?!?!?!?!?!?
Dr. D
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Peter
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2003
15:51:54
| RE: Redline w Esters Bad?
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Message:
Hey Steven,
Touche' (I'm not French, but I think this is correct spelling)
And thanks for the information.
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