| From | Message |
jeremy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/21/2003
23:50:40
|
 Subject: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Steve, have you ever heard of SFR?
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
 
8/22/2003
11:33:33
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeremy,
Honestly, I have never analyzed this product. I have never used it, nor have I ever seen a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) where someone else used it. They make extraordinary claims and I have emailed the company asking about their base stock, ... and I will ask around to see what my business associates know. For now it is a complete mystery. I will get back to you with additional information when available.
Here is a website (not mine) with information.
Superior Friction Reduction
Disclaimer: By including the above link, I neither endorse nor discredit the product. This link is provided for information purposes only. Please consult an expert before using any additives. Most are snake oil.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
jeremy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/22/2003
15:17:28
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
i ask, because my step father used to be a dealer of the stuff. He owns his own concrete business with about 10 vehicles in the fleet, and though he hasn't been a dealer for at least 8 years, he still uses it in everything he owns. Work trucks, personal trucks, snowmachines, motorcycles, chainsaws, you name it. The stuff is amazing, and the thing is that when he was doing demos synthetics wern't really available to the public so I'm not sure if it would make that much of a difference with these new oils. The demo process is absolutley awesome, i'll have to explain it some time.
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/23/2003
14:24:35
|  Amsoil AMSOIL AMSoil = American Synthetic Oil
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeremy,
I know nothing of this product and since they appear not to provide much technical data, I'd be somewhat aprehensive of using it until some basic questions are answered. One, why do you need that or any other after market friction modifier in your oil? Is it that your Step Father feels the oil in use aren't cutting it?
Those are the real issues that need to be asked when looking to add in additives in an already balanced oil. Although I'm sure it'd be nice to know what kind of chemistry they use since they appear to not use any standard one. (see below ... and let me know if you can make any sense of it)...
----------
This shows what they call technical data and how it actually says nothing to support their info supplied with their contact info for sales. Read this and show me the technical data provided. (hint ... there is no technical data):
American Society for Testing and Materials ASTM KA24E Nissan Valve Train Wear Test
Key Points, Summary and Analysis
This ASTM test method measures the ability of crankcase oils to prevent cam shaft and rocker arm follower wear encountered during stop and go driving conditions and extended engine idling.
This new qualifying test, that will be used to qualify the next generation of engine oils documents a candidate oils ability to reduce primary metal wear of cam components and prevent scuffing of rocker arm pads.
The ASTM KA24E demonstrates an oils performance under severe service. Some of these conditions are short 10-mile trips, cold weather starts, and extended idling and pulling trailers. It's easy to see how most of us drive under severe conditions and how the KA24E simulates this common and demanding mode of operation for an engine.
Summary and Analysis
The primary test results confirm SFR 100's ability to further reduce wear in the modern passenger car engine that are using the most current generation motor oils. The results of the test indicate that when SJ rated Pennzoil 10W30 engine oil was treated at 5% by volume with SFR 100, the average camshaft lobe wear was reduced by an overall 14%.
The wear reduction with SFR 100 was even higher on the exhaust lobes, at 30% over the industry standard API SJ rated oil. These tests clearly show that SFR 100 reduces wear on the leading and trailing edge of cam lobes where the most heat, boundary layer lubricating and extreme pressure conditions exist.
Additional testing and analysis was performed at Cleveland Technical Center that revealed much larger wear reductions in hard metal debris when compared to the reference, untreated engine oil. Particle counts and analytical ferrography were performed and the SFR 100 treated engine oil generated and circulated up to 44.7% less abrasive particles, depending upon the ISO class examined.
This entire certified testing document, is available, as is the CRC L-38 Wear Test, from our Support Material Price List. Please also call out technical section with your questions.
American Petroleum Institute (API) CRC L-38 Engine Oil Test
Key Points, Summary and Analysis
CRC L-38 is the standard American Petroleum Institute (API) engine oil qualifying test used for the approval of all lubrication engine oils that carry the API approval signage.
This qualifying test uses the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) Method D 5119-95. This test assures a high degree of oil compatibility with the formulated lubricant and the additive systems it uses (i.e. SFR 100, Comprez1000) are examples.
The test predicts a high confidence level in the lack of bearing corrosive wear.
The L-38 Test demonstrates high temperature protection against engine and oil deterioration. It further evaluates the viscosity stability of multi-viscosity oils, under high temperature such as those in heavy-duty service conditions. These test conditions, bench duplicate, taxi, towing and stop and go city-driving conditions.
Contamination control and how well the engine oil keeps an engine clean and free from sludge and varnish is measured under conditions of very high fuel dilution. Again severe or heavy duty driving conditions.
Actual wear of critical engine components is measured and compared to the engine manufacturer standards.
Summary and Analysis
SFR 100 was added, by the testing body, to an API licensed, retail engine oil of the newest performance level that being, API SJ, at the suggested treat rate of 5% by volume.
SFR 100 showed a significant improvement of 37% in power section wear over untreated oil and fully 45% better that the API SJ oils standard passing performance. This is the reduction of corrosive wear.
SFR 100 does not produce deposits in the form of sludge and varnish. In fact, SFR received and almost perfect score when rated for the amount of piston and ring deposits. This fully exhibits our keep-clean technology and complete technical balance under severe operating and test conditions.
----------
Bottom Line: They call this information technical data but it actually says nothing. I'd be somewhat aprehensive of using it until some basic questions are answered by the company ... and so far what they provided me with is mush.
Sorry.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/23/2003
15:12:37
|  RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Holy Sh!t ..... $29.00 per qt. !!
Dr. D
|
jeremy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/23/2003
16:43:32
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
haha, you should be sorry. There's really only one way to find out, and your right, that says basically nothing, but anything in print is basically nothing. I'm not sure how the sell or advertise their product these days. When my step father was a dealer, he showed it at state fairs and stuff. (much like amsoil) Personally I always found it hard to respect a product that sells from a fair booth. But the SFR demo's like the demos for amsoil will make a believer in either product. Why does he use it? Why did most of us switch from dyno to synthetic? Other than the obvious long term benefits, it's sipmly more efficient. Like I said, i'm sure the difference would be less noticable, (if at all) with today's sythetic oils. I wasn't aware it was so freaking expensive lol.
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/23/2003
17:41:06
|  Amsoil AMSOIL AMSoil = American Synthetic Oil
IP: Logged
Message:
the SFR MSDS says:
synth diesel engine oil fortifier:
hydrocracked hydroisomerized group 3
magnesium sulfonate
gasoline engine synth oil fortifier:
PAO-1 decene homopolymer
phosphate ester
gasoline engine nonsynth petroleum oil fortifier:
Hydrotreated Light Naphthenic Oil
dispersant additive in severly hydrotreated
Get me some UOA's from your Step Father and then we can make a judgement!
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
JohnQ
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/23/2003
17:44:19
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
What are the chances that all his success with this additive isn't actually his success with good maintenance practices? Many who use this sort of thing will give the additive credit but often more than not, it actually is due to proper maintenance done instead. Proving how well an additive performed is almost near impossible in this sort of case.
|
salsahh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
12:14:00
|  RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Take any statement from a Amsoil rep with a Grain of salt. Amsoil is a MLM company that marks up their oil very heavily and complains about every compeitor out there. With Amsoil's outrageous claims about theirs vs other motor oil's I'm suprised they haven't been brought to court yet but I'm sure its coming soon. Fact is there are many Amsoil reps that don't disagree with every statement about additives alot sell additives with their oil. SFR is no exception. Amsoil defintely has a point when it comes to certain additives that lied cheated for business. SFR is not one of those companies. 4 ball tests are bench tests you can discredit those all you want but TEOS and KA24E tests are VERY expensive and benchmarks for sequence testing.(API approved)
ADDITIVES are bad??? HAHA whos kidding who if they're so bad why does AMSOIL use them. reply Well its a well finely balanced mixture of base oil and ADDITIVES. What additives are bad but if i buy Amsoil then they're finely balanced (whatever that means) and thats ok. To me thats like trying to sell ice to a eskimo. If additives were so bad why does Amsoil sell fuel additives and engine cleaners????
Amsoil has ONE thing PAO base stocks that is the only pat on the back they deserve. Ask them what additives are in their oil and where they get them. Problably from the same suppliers as SFR. And @ 29 dollars a quart for SFR which is PURE ADDITIVES which is the most EXPENSIVE part to making the oil this is the best analogy i can give you
AMSOIL=10 percent additives 90%PAO base. SFR=90%additive 10%base stock which is only used as a carrier.
Amsoil you put a quart in. SFR you put OUNCES in.
SFR is NOT like others out there and should not be classified as another additve or snake oil. SFR balances out the different needed additives(whoops i said balanced) Unlike slick 50 and Prolong. IN MUCH HIGHER QUANITIES.
This might upset the balance of Amsoil? When diluted at 30% NOT LIKELY.
|
Salsahh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
12:41:59
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
There is nothing wrong with using additives and using a high quality motor oil like amsoil. Although they may not like it ADDITIVES are here to stay wether its sold as a engine treatment or in motoroil ADDITIVES will not go away. I often times ask my self what would happen if all Additives were taking out of all oils what would happen After researching API and STLE books I'm convinced that without additives a Maintenance technician would make more money then the marketers of oil, engineers, and even more than a high paid athelete becuase all mechanical equipment would FAIL. The Only thing that allows oil to become classified as a higher grade oil is 90% additives and 10% base stocks. The only advances oil has made in the last 50 years have been the move from petroleum to synthetic. And EVEN the BIG BOYS know how to cheat that Castrol fought and Won the GROUP III be called a SYNTHETIC oil. GROUP III is not a TRUE synthetic Like PAO but the government recognizes it as so AND so does walmart MOBIL1 4$ a quart supertech oil 2.50$ a quart is MOBIL1 have that much markup?? NO supertech is a GROUPIII.
Here's one thats puzzling me SEMI-SYNTHETIC How many times have you heard DON'T mix petro and synth. or how about this ONCE you've switched never go back to a petro oil. SO who, what, where, and why did this come out. I'm not stupid I can read between the lines. It goes the same with additives and any other product. The big boys can lie or manipulate the truth to sway the masses to follow.
Look to all AMSOIL users and DEALERS. I'm Not looking to fight with you about anything. ADDITIVES are not the problem the big Oil companies are your problem. And all I ask is that don't kick the cat. ADDITIVES is a respectful Industry that keeps everyone happy. I cannot vouch for the ones that have done everyone wrong (Duralube, Prolong, slick 50) but I know and believe firmly there are a few out there like SFR for example that are trying to do things correctly and honestly. You're trying to do the same you know some things that most do not know about oil and such expose the weaknesses and the problems not spreading false rumours about this and that
Thank You
|
Roger
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
13:25:32
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey Salsahh. Since you're quite clearly a representative for SFR, I'll accept your advice and take any advice from a SFR representative with a grain of salt.
|
peedee
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
15:01:54
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Sick-em' Roger. Geesh! Why the heck is salsahh picking on Steve for those posts. I don't know if anyone could be more unbiased and fair as he was in this string. He gave the advice of "caution" to a person that wanted and opinion of an additive and Steve wrote: Honestly, I have never analyzed this product. I have never used it, nor have I ever seen a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) where someone else used it. They make extraordinary claims and I have emailed the company asking about their base stock, ... and I will ask around to see what my business associates know. For now it is a complete mystery. I will get back to you with additional information when available.
Here is a website (not mine) with information."
WOuld you have rathered he said "yeah Jeremy, go ahead and use it, it is probably good stuff, probably even better than Amsoil"
So salsaaaaaahhhhh the next time you change your oil why don't you change your attitude also...
|
salsahh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
17:56:06
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm not picking on anyone. I'm sorry you guys misinterpreted what I was trying to say. Roger it doesn't matter if i'm the president of the united states all I was trying to say is listen to what he has to say but do your OWN research and experience things for yourself.
I apologize if maybe I came across with a attitude and I even apologize for sounding like i attacked him. Fact of the matter is I've been to a lot of forums and Oil discusions and the first thing someone has to say is DON'T use additives I'M sick of it.
Every single one categorizes ADDITIVES as this life threatening illness to their engine because a handful of rotten people spoiled the fruit.
Does that mean all of them are bad? Of course not
Unbiased? Call it what you want but I guarentee you that Steve will defend his points til the bitter end that additives are bad and oil has enough already when they really don't.
I even endorsed AMSOIL "There is nothing wrong with using additives and using a high quality motor oil like amsoil."
Its a win win situation AMSOIL cannot survive without additives as the same ADDITIVES can't survive without oil.
STEVE if you read this if it sounded like I'm attacking you I apologize.
P.S. Just do me one favor don't categorize additives as a unnecessary or useless tool cause its just as needed as oil.
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/11/2004
17:58:21
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
..... thanks Roger and peedee.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
salsahh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
18:01:18
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Bottom Line: They call this information technical data but it actually says nothing. I'd be somewhat aprehensive of using it until some basic questions are answered by the company ... and so far what they provided me with is mush.
What questions are you looking for?
What is MUSH?
What technical data are you looking for as credible evidence to a good product?
Help me Help you.
|
salsahh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
18:03:00
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks roger and peedee for setting me straight
|
Freddy2x
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
19:45:21
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Additives in motor oil are detergents, seal conditioners, etc.
Aftermarket additives are snake oil.
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/11/2004
19:55:27
|  Amsoil www.american-synthetic-oil.com Amzoil
IP: Logged
Message:
salsahh,
I don't negotiate (or debate) with terrorists!
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
Justi
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
21:40:17
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
Steve I'd have to say I'm very disappointed. The Salsa man called you on several points and then offered to answer your questions. Here is a stage for you to back up what you frequently post and you turn away. I received my catalog from you a month or so ago and am heavily considering the switch so I was happy to see this as a chance to have some questions answered. Don't reply to him if you choose not to but people like me teetering on the edge of whether to switch you Amsoil or not are left no choice but to question the legitimacy of your claims. Help me out man, show me WHY I should switch to Amsoil, and please start by answering this guys questions and asking your own. You said several questions needed asked before an opinion could be formed, well ask them..
|
smoke
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
22:52:50
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
I have seen alot of different oils in all the big performance magazines. Mostly Mobil 1, red line, royal purple, and castrol. I have never seen a write up on amsoil. Never. If you do a google search on amsoil it only brings up amsoil run test. Or a test run by someone else for amsoil. I use Mobil 1 and royal purple. If you go to any synthetic after using dyno oil you will see a difference in the performance of your oil. Most people who use synthetic use Mobil 1. It's readily available and has a very good rep. I really don't trust amsoil because i never hear about them from an unbiased party. Everytime a distributor of amsoil posts he writes a fricken novel. Mobil 1 is just as good as amsoil. If amsoil could possibly be better the difference is so minute that it's not worth talking about. Amsoil does make one good point. THEY SAY THEIR OIL IS SO GOOD THAT YOU CAN HAVE EXTENDED DRAIN INTERVALS. tHE FACT IS THAT ALL SYNTHETICS CAN GO UNCHANGRD FOR UP TO 10000 MILES. Nobody i know does that even with synthetic. I change mine at 3000 to 5000 and have never had any issues. AMSOIL GUY! Get over yourself!
SMOKE
|
Scott
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
8/11/2004
23:24:05
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
IP: Logged
Message:
I may be out of my league here, but I will apply my two cents anyway.
I have used Amsoil for quite awhile, and I will agree that it is a decent oil. I have also used Castrol for a number of years. I recently traveled to Butte, Montana for Evel Kneivel days and had a chance to speak with a SFR rep.
He showed me a fantastic test that displays bearing scarring and wear when used with plain oils. After adding a tiny bit of the SFR stuff, the machine showed very little (if any) wearing of the bearings. I was so impressed, I bought a quart of it and have recently "topped" off my Castrol GTX with it. The results have been phenominal! The way I see it, the proof is in the pudding...Results are the only things that matter. If a regular oil alone could produce the increased horsepower that I can feel, and lower my operating temperatures that I can see, I would probably buy it in a minute! I am very impressed with the SFR products, and for those of you who are questioning their testing and all the other stuff, I found quite a bit on thir web-site: www.sfrcorp.com
Good Luck!
Scott Bronson
Charlotte, NC
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
