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General Dakota Board
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marco
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
23:22:46
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 Subject: RE: Mr. Amsoil
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my brain hurts i think im trying to learn too much too quick,lol
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/16/2004
08:32:12
|  Amsoil Dealer Amzoil Dealer Ams Oil Dealer
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Well, I'm back in the office this morning.
Only one follow-up comment and it is for "dkota_rt".
dkota_rt,
If you want to call Amsoil "A-- Oil", please feel free to do so. I suppose that is simply a reflection of where you use our Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oils, Gear Lubes, Transmission Fluids, etc.
P.S. Shhhhhhh ... that's not where they are supposed to go!
__________________________________________________
You can request a FREE Amsoil Catalog and find the real purposes of all our lubrication products by clicking below:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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ChaChing
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
14:34:48
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Good one Steve!!!
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salsahh
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2004
13:25:41
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Jets, airplanes and additives well you must not have been a aviation mechanic for very long or you would have heard of ZMAX or the technical term Linkite a aviation lubricant. How about xcell plus that thinks they have FAA clearance?
I haven't gone anywhere and not one has asked NOR answered with any intelligence to any of my points. Your completely stuck on if i Work for them or Not WHY?? What does that have to do with what we're talking about.
Can you not handle the truth so you resort to discrediting someone or putting them down to make yourself and others feel better.
200,000 mile warranty whats your question? Is it outrageous NO.
Why haven't the others jumped in and offered it as well? You must be JOKING THEY HAVE PENNSOIL claims 300,000 miles if you join their program. Prolong also has 150,000 or 200,000 mile warranty.
I rather have a warranty than a false promise from amsoil, redline, or any others implying that you can extend oil changes and lengthen your engine life.
Mobil one claims 200,000 miles with "virtually no wear" but I don't see them giving out warranties
Whats OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS? I want to know the only outrageous claims are some of these posts.
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salsahh
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2004
13:33:14
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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You think i'm out to attack MR. Amsoil I'm NOT!
Its pretty obvious there are a few hardcore users of Amsoil I can't change that nor am i saying its a bad thing. The one thing that YOU people can't get past is the fact that ADDITIVES ARE NECESSARY. The only reaction is SNAKE OIL hey if its slick and gets the job done WHO CARES??
I don't understand why doesn't anyone want to get into it and discuss it you think i'm attacking someone and your ready to defend them without understanding or wanting to even look at the circumstances.
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Whoopie
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2004
14:52:22
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Additives ???? (More Is Not Necessarily Better)
Though some additives may not contain anything harmful to your engine, and even some things that could be beneficial, most experts still recommend that you avoid their use. The reason for this is that your oil, as purchased from one of the major oil companies, already contains a very extensive additive package.
This package is made up of numerous, specific additive components, blended to achieve a specific formula that will meet the requirements of your engine. Usually, at least several of these additives will be synergistic. That is, they react mutually, in groups of two or more, to create an effect that none of them could attain individually. Changing or adding to this formula can upset the balance and negate the protective effect the formula was meant to achieve, even if you are only adding more of something that was already included in the initial package.
If it helps, try to think of your oil like a cake recipe. Just because the original recipe calls for two eggs (which makes for a very moist and tasty cake), do you think adding four more eggs is going to make the cake better? Of course not. You're going to upset the carefully calculated balance of ingredients and magnify the effect the eggs have on the recipe to the point that it ruins the entire cake. Adding more of a specific additive already contained in your oil is likely to produce similar results.
This information should also be taken into account when adding to the oil already in your bike or when mixing oils for any reason, such as synthetic with petroleum. In these cases, always make sure the oils you are putting together have the same rating (SA, SE, SC, etc.). This tells you their additive packages are basically the same, or at least compatible, and are less likely to upset the balance or counteract each other.
The best that can be said of those that have not proved to be harmful is that they haven't been proved to offer any real benefits, either. In some cases, introducing an additive with a compatible package of components to your oil in the right proportion and at the right time can conceivably extend the life of your oil. However, in every case we have studied it proves out that it would actually have been cheaper to simply change the engine oil instead.
In addition, recent new evidence has come to light that makes using almost any additive a game of Russian Roulette. Since the additive distributors do not list the ingredients contained within their products, you never know for sure just what you are putting in your engine.
Recent tests have shown that even some of the most inoffensive additives contain products which, though harmless in their initial state, convert to hydrofluoric acid when exposed to the temperatures inside a firing cylinder. This acid is formed as part of the exhaust gases, and though it is instantly expelled from your engine and seems to do it no harm, the gases collect inside your exhaust system and eat away at your mufflers from the inside out.
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salsahh
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2004
18:23:51
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Is there any truth to this??
Looks like marketing companies posting B.S. again Spectro Oil is behind this one. Spectro oil is supposedly the great motorcycle oil that made up a story that has no credible evidence.
It mentions acids being made and eating your tailpipe from inside out. Salt seems to eat the entire car from the inside out but no one seems to be on a mission to take salt out of the earth.
(In addition, recent new evidence has come to light that makes using almost any additive a game of Russian Roulette. Since the additive distributors do not list the ingredients contained within their products, you never know for sure just what you are putting in your engine. )
Yeah sure they're going to purposely put something in that bottle to try and blow up your engine. If the oil companies don't make money than the OEM's will for sure in fact screw oil lets have all our new dodges running on russian roulette oil so we can sell more cars NO BRAINER nor did the person who wrote this this is a falesy
This information should also be taken into account when adding to the oil already in your bike or when mixing oils for any reason, such as synthetic with petroleum. In these cases, always make sure the oils you are putting together have the same rating (SA, SE, SC, etc.). This tells you their additive packages are basically the same, or at least compatible, and are less likely to upset the balance or counteract each other.
This is insane 8% of the american public is ALL that even KNOW what the API donut means not to mention that sa and se oil are like as ancient as the dinosaurs that make oil.
Once again the balance subject comes up WHAT IS IT? what is the balance I get the idea that this person makes up about cooking but this is entirely different we're not talking about doubling anything I truly would like to see if ANY AFTERMARKET ADDITIVE REACTS WITH ANY OIL. That remains to be seen.
I'm sorry everyone had to read a rumour and opinion about additives this article has next to NO FACTUAL data whatsoever.
Perhaps what i say is more extreme than these articles but at least its a different way of looking at things than copying and pasting from the internet by the way most of this info was brought to you by www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2004
20:33:57
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Hey Salsahh,
Why don't you call a Tribologist and ask him or her about
the use of oil additives, oil treatments and so called "metal
conditioners".
Dr. D
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dkota_rt
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2004
21:05:36
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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AMSOIL Sponsor
Good call Mr. A$$ Oil. That's exactly where I use it. Thank's for licking my A$$ oil from where I use it. Everyone know's it's useless marketing B.S. for use on anything else. Mr. A$$ Oil will take care of you, but don't use this sh*t on your car.
"If you want to call Amsoil "A-- Oil", please feel free to do so. I suppose that is simply a reflection of where you use our Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oils, Gear Lubes, Transmission Fluids, etc."
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salsahh
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2004
01:27:05
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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DR. D Who do you think formulates the aftermarket additives? Tribologists I know lots of them they are smart people and none of them are as close minded about additives as you may think they are. STLE look them up and their members they have many engineers that are working on additives.
Dakota what are you babbling about I don't get it? Is this funny? or do you not like Amsoil. I'm puzzled fill me in.
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dkota_rt
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2004
03:48:33
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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salsahh,
What's wrong boy............................. are you Sta Sta Sta Stupid???
"Dakota what are you babbling about I don't get it? Is this funny? or do you not like Amsoil. I'm puzzled fill me in."
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/18/2004
06:13:08
|  Amsoil Dealer Amzoil Dealer Ams Oil Dealer Amsoil
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General Discussion
Amsoil has been in the oil industry for 32 years. Due to Amsoil's superior synthetic composition and advanced performance additives, AMSOIL performs much longer than do conventional petroleum and other synthetic motor oils. Yes, Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oils contain additives, ... but they are the correct additives in the correct amounts, with the proper balance, etc. No aftermarket additives are necessary and should be avoided! An aftermarket oil additive will not improve and may actually harm the performance of AMSOIL motor oils.
An earlier post stated it best,
Though some additives may not contain anything harmful to your engine, and even some things that could be beneficial, most experts still recommend that you avoid their use. The reason for this is that your oil, as purchased from one of the major oil companies, already contains a very extensive additive package.
This package is made up of numerous, specific additive components, blended to achieve a specific formula that will meet the requirements of your engine. Usually, at least several of these additives will be synergistic. That is, they react mutually, in groups of two or more, to create an effect that none of them could attain individually. Changing or adding to this formula can upset the balance and negate the protective effect the formula was meant to achieve, even if you are only adding more of something that was already included in the initial package."
Most synthetic motor oil and lubricants have good typical specs, but the performance from the use of better base oils and additives can not be easily demonstrated with a test or a chart ... or debated in a FORUM.
These attributes of AMSOIL show up by controlling acids in the oil, eliminating corrosion in the engine, maintaining viscosity throughout the drain interval, helping improve performance in the areas of fuel economy and cold weather starting , keeping contaminants in suspension until they get to the oil filter for removal ... or the oil is drained, and generally keeping the engine cleaner and deposit free. These benefits are not easily demonstrated with a test or a chart.
These attributes are only noticeable in actual use and performing UOA's.
__________________________________________________
Additives -- Extreme Pressure and AntiWear
First of all, extreme pressure (EP) additives are not typically used in motor oil. EP additives are used in gear lubes and some greases. This is because they contain sulfur or chlorine compounds that become active under engine operating conditions. In this activated state they react with the water found in by-products of combustion, and form acids which are corrosive to engine components such as bearings.
Engine oils typically use antiwear (AW) additives to prevent metal-to-metal contact within an engine. These are commonly zinc and phosphorus compounds (zinc dithiophosphate or ZDP). These additives are different from EP additives because they activate or bond with metal surfaces at lower temperatures and pressures and do not form corrosive acids. EP additives are intended to withstand higher pressures and temperatures than found in engines. AW additives offer more than enough protection for all engine conditions without any of the harmful side effects of EP additives. Therefore, No aftermarket additives are necessary and should be avoided! An aftermarket oil additive will not improve and may actually harm the performance of AMSOIL motor oils.
__________________________________________________
Amsoil's Additives
AMSOIL INC. has always used higher quality and a higher level of additives including zinc and phosphorus than most motor oils on the market.
Quantity of AW additives alone, however, will not make one lubricant perform better than a competitive lubricant. It's the combination of blended synthetic basestocks with a perfectly balanced package of the highest quality additives that allows AMSOIL to consistently outperform the competition in all aspects, including wear protection.
*** NOTE: Perfectly balanced means that using an aftermarket oil additive will not improve and may actually harm the performance of AMSOIL motor oils. ***
AMSOIL products offer better wear protection than competitive synthetics and much better protection than conventional oils.
__________________________________________________
Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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salsahh
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2004
10:47:11
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Once again we're answered with NO DATA just a bunch of hype an no reasonable or logical answers.
First of all your wrong about EP's and with a high TBN tell me how can they become corrosive especially if the additive as a corrosion inhibitor. Some of the clowns out there you may get away with this like prolong and duralube. But i assure you sfr is far more complex then this simple article puts it to be. Further more you didn't even mention lead, copper, flourine, or boron or moly which we know is a harder metal.
STP a aftermarket additive invented ZDDP and this only confirms that Amsoil agrees with aftermarket additive companies cause they're using it in their formula and at a much higher concentration
Perfectly balanced means that using an aftermarket oil additive will not improve and may actually harm the performance of AMSOIL motor oils.
I don't know how to simplify this any better but this is a outright lie. as they've said they do not know what is in aftermarket additives so how can they make an OUTRAGEOUS claim like that for all amsoil knows the aftermarket additive could contain high levels of all additives that are found in oil.
What about friction modifiers?
Oxidation improvers?
and the kicker i've had many reps agree that over time even amsoil will develop deposits and sludge. so what about the detergents?
I have no doubt this could not be solve in a forum on the internet but i do believe it is wrong to copy and paste others opinions that are not proven.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/18/2004
11:13:45
| Amsoil Dealer Amzoil Dealer Ams Oil Dealer Amsoil
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Additives
AMSOIL includes a number of additives in its oils to improve their protective qualities. AMSOIL chemists and engineers are able to add many beneficial features to reduce wear, oxidation, evaporation, deposits and many other problems, resulting in a top quality product. AMSOIL purchases only the very highest quality additives available.
Some of the additives are:
Detergents: Keep high temperature engine parts, such as pistons and rings, clean and free from deposits.
Dispersants: Suspend and disperse materials that could form varnishes, sludge, etc., clogging the engine.
Anti-wear: Gives added film strength to prevent wear of heavily loaded surfaces (like the crankshaft's rod and main bearings).
Friction Modifiers: Reduce friction losses throughout the engine for more power and better fuel mileage.
Corrosion Inhibitors: Fight the rust and wear caused by acids and moisture. They protect vital steel or iron parts from rust, and corrosion of other metals.
Oxidation Inhibitors: Oxygen can combine with oil (even the best ones) at high engine temperatures to form damaging materials. These additives reduce thickening of the oil, and sludge formation.
Foam Inhibitors: The spinning of the crankshaft and the rods introduces great air turbulence in the crankcase, causing oil to form bubbles (foam). These additives limit bubble growth and break them up quickly. This keeps foam levels low, allowing the oil pump to circulate oil, not oil and air, through the engine.
Viscosity Index (VI) Improver: A VI Improver adds to oil's natural tendency to fight viscosity change with temperature variations. Because of the way AMSOIL is constructed (that's right, CONSTRUCTED) many of our oils DO NOT NEED VI IMPROVERS! It is already built into the Synthetic Base Stock!
Pour Point Depressant: This additive improves a winter oil's ability to flow at very low temperatures. This is not really needed in AMSOIL because the inherent ability of synthetic base stocks to flow in cold conditions (remember, in many instances as low as 76 degrees below zero!).
AMSOIL purchases only the highest quality additives available. Amsoil's combination of synthetic basestocks, blended with a perfectly balanced package of the highest quality additives allows AMSOIL to consistently outperform the competition in all aspects, including wear protection.
*** NOTE: Perfectly balanced means that using an aftermarket oil additive will not improve and may actually harm the performance of AMSOIL motor oils. ***
AMSOIL products offer better wear protection than competitive synthetics and much better protection than conventional oils.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
8/18/2004
11:21:19
| Amsoil Dealer Amzoil Dealer -- PowerSports Rally
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FYI Everyone ...
-- I am an EVENT SPONSOR at the PowerSports Rally, ...
------ MY BOOTH IS -- AMSOIL -- BOOTH # 91. ------
SEPTEMBER 17 - 19th 2004 - Lake George, New York
The Northeast’s Premier ATV & Snowmobile Expo and Rally.
ATVers and Snowmobilers, in the Northeast U.S., GET READY!
Picture this: Miles of perfect mountain trails, lots of riding events, thousands of ATVs, great food, plus a huge ATV/Snowmobile expo, all in a beautiful location: Lake George, N.Y. It's coming September 17-19
Stop by and see us !!! Mention DodgeDakotas.com and get a FREE GIFT.
__________________________________________________
Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Roger
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2004
12:22:14
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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"I don't understand why doesn't anyone want to get into it and discuss it you think i'm attacking someone and your ready to defend them without understanding or wanting to even look at the circumstances" -Salsaa
I haven't read anything in your posts besides putting down Amsoil and making "claims" that SFR is appropriate. Where is your proof? What is in SFR? Steve has included the ingredients to Amsoil and hasn't even commented directly to you and yet you continue to knock Amsoil. IT'S NOT EVEN AN ADDITIVE. IT'S AN OIL. Why are you comparing your additive to an oil? This post is now irrelevent.
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Phucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2004
17:10:37
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Bla Bla Bla........
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Nice
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2004
17:42:22
| RE: Mr. Amsoil
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Hey phucker, that's the sound you make when you have a bunch of my man goo in your mouth. LOL!
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