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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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10/03/2003
17:01:22
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 Subject: RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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MT, The gentleman who conducted the air filter test does have some knowledge, cut and paste;
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and am currently pursuing a master's in engineering management. I have been around the automobile all my life, and will be obtaining certification as an ASE certified mechanic this fall (for fun). My father worked in the automotive test industry my entire adolescent life. I've also spent much of my life at the race track, either racing as an amateur or with my father who was a crew chief for a stock car racer many years. He also was a crew chief at the 24 hours of Daytona and LeMans twice. I regret not being able to go to LeMans to this day. I'm a certified gage calibration technician, certified quality assurance inspector, certified as a refrigerant worker by the EPA, and work in the Navy as a mechanic in nuclear propulsion. I like to think I know a few things about machines including automobiles, but there is always something to learn.
I choose to conduct this test because of the conflicting information I see in advertisements and have read on the internet. Everyone claims that their filter flows the best, and removes the most dirt. If you think about it, flow and filtration ability are actually linked. A solid piece of metal would prevent any particles from entering the engine, but it wouldn't flow any air at all. On the other hand, the screen used on a window screen will flow well, but won't filter well at all. So if you think about it, the best flowing and best filtering is really contradictory in claim. I wanted to find out which filter really does filter the best, and which one really does flow the best. I have used almost every brand and type of air filter over the years including K&N. I had not used a foam filter until conducting this test. I have used every manner of off the shelf fiberous or paper filter.
And I don`t believe he is a saleman or anything. I also don`t believe a well maintained K&N will disolve your motor. I find it amazing after researching this subject that you can find dozens and dozens of people that swear by K&N`s and dozens and dozens that are dead set against them. In the end it`s what you feel comfortable with.
I also run Amsoil and will be posting my oil analysis results on bobistheoilguy`s site if anyone is interested. That site talks about, among other things, silicon and air filters. I didn`t realize how important good filtration is. My "kool shot" air intake slipped off the TB in a rainstorm for about 15-20 miles and I figured no big deal. After reading the site through a bit I pulled the oil immediately and sent in a sample, waiting for results. Series 2000 0-30 9,987 miles. Dreading what the SI numbers will be. After that I checked the Amsoil TS29 air filter and wasn`t happy with the seal. Put the stock paper filter back in. I`m up in the air about it`s replacement. The new Amsoil filters seal better but the Baldwin paper filter looks good too. Man, nothings easy!
03 qc 4.7 auto 4x4 19k
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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10/03/2003
17:48:08
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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I checked my 4.7 air box with K&N drop-in yesterday, and as usual, the bottom of the filter was dirty, the top looked like it was just cleaned (6K mi.). I swabbed the top of the air box lid with a clean white rag; no dirt/dust at all. No worries about K&N from me.
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Todd
Dodge Dakota
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10/03/2003
21:31:25
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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wesb:
I don't mind re-oiling my K&N filter. Just as most of the preventive maintance and normal up keep take a little effort, the cleaning and re-oiling doesn't require that much time. Just schedule the time and anyone should be able to accomplish the task required.
As to extra horsepower and etc., I don't worry about those things. As long as I get where I want to go (mostly remote mountain and dersert locations) safely, the "getting there" is more important then the speed I go down the road.
So far I have explored the mojave desert, Serria Nevada mountians, the black and cerbat mountians of Arizona and my Dakota Quadcab 4X4 has never failed me.
I hope most of us can make the same claim.
Enjoy your truck.
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David M.
Dodge Dakota
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10/03/2003
22:01:40
|  RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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Long Time User Of K&N. Have a FIPK on my 3.9. Works great, the only thing i find annoying is the whisle i hear with it on, otherwise it seems like more HP toward the higher RPM's. I also like the option of cleaning it insead of buying a new paper filter. I would like to get some hard facts from the dyno (now that i think of it) of the FIPK compared to the paper filter ( or the drop in compared to the FIPK). Anyways i recommend K&N to all my friends and family as it is the last filter ever to buy and one of the first steps to add cheap HP to thier car or truck.
93 3.9 4x4, FIPK, More additions to come!
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dohh
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2003
09:03:54
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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k&n = 50 plus dollars
paper filter = 5 dollars
no filter = free
k&n only gives feeling of more horsepower like the stick on antenna for my cell phone
Hey do you k&n guys want to buy any stick on cell phone antennas or stick magnetic wave protectors.
I also got $ 5 aluminum laser spoiler you put in your radiator.
Now how about the "clapper" now that really works.
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Saturday
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2003
12:13:51
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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jeremiah2360? What are your qualifications?
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Saturday
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2003
12:35:18
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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Jeramiah, My question is real. I am confused as to what you posted. You seem to have copied and pasted the "testers" bio and intermingled it with yours. I am not clear as to where you stand re: K&N? You only post other peoples opinions and have none of your own. Not to flame you but i am confused.
Kyle
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2003
00:05:15
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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I don`t know. lol I really don`t, there seems to be no difinitive answers on this one. Believe me I`m no expert and only have other more experienced people to depend on. I only posted on this thread to share what I have learned.
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2003
00:08:12
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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PS; I guess I should of used quotation marks, sorry:)
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dohh
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2003
09:09:22
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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Oops ! Paper filters for many models are more than $5. Dohh !
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sUNdAK
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2003
09:10:25
| RE: K&N Filters - (any downside?)
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In other words. Jeremiah -- all u did was "cut-and-paste" someone elses words.
Therefore -- you are just another copy and paster -- without knowledge, education, or your own opinions.
Did I cover everything (without flaming you?).
Yes, you should use "quotation marks" anytime you steal someone else's words and clain them as your own.
I love the following (and I use quotations)
Kyle asked --
"What are your qualifications? I am confused as to what you posted. You seem to have copied and pasted the "testers" bio and intermingled it with yours. I am not clear as to where you stand re: K&N? You only post other peoples opinions and have none of your own. Not to flame you but i am confused."
And your answer was---
" I don`t know. lol I really don`t, there seems to be no difinitive answers on this one."
Again, after reading all the posts I think MThomlinson had it right in an earlier post -- and was most accurate when he stated --
" I visited that filter test site (and I've seen it posted other places besides that website). It is a non-scientific, non-standardized "flow" test performed by an individual (novice) and was not published as fact. It was posted for discussion purposes only. As to their "dirt amount verification". How much of what we see is dirt and how much how much is oil? How was he able to seal the filters to prevent contamination? Did the lighting "fool our eyes"?
I don't know what this test proves (if anything at all)!?!? All I see is discolored paper. No microscopic analysis of whether it is dirt or oil, and what size the dirt particles are? Dirt? Oil? Lighting? Etc.? Looks are deceiving and not always what they appear to be. Automotive air filters are not manufactured nor are they intended to clean the air. They are designed to filter out dirt in the 10+ micron size. Also it seems to me that some of the filters in the test were cleaned and re-oiled. I wonder why the that was done? Is it possible that the results using new filters would have been different? Would the test give us the same results if they were tested new out of the box? It would appear to this observer that he is biased from the get go. Maybe he is an air filter salesman of some sort?
Heck, you or I could perform a non-scientific, non-standardized "flow" test in our backyards. What would it prove? It is about as scientific as a beer taste test. Honestly, I would prefer the beer tasting.
This test needs to be filtered itself.... and thrown away."
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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