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KMS Luder
Dodge Dakota
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1/26/2003
08:10:25
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 Subject: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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I know you get this question all the time from kids, but I'm one of the few older guys who's serious about this.
I'm considering getting a '96 Dakota Sport from a friend for next to nothing. It's the 2.5 4 banger, which, in all honesty, has no balls whatsoever. Poor little thing.
The only reason I'd get it would be to tow my other car to races and shows. So I need a little extra UMPH. And as long as I'm going through the effort... why not go all out?
I'd like to yank all the electronic crap that goes with it, and shoe horn in something more respectable, *cough* V8 *cough* preferabley something I can bolt up my leftover 750 holly to that I have laying here gathering dust. Cutting up fender wells? Not a problem. Hacking up the frame? I'd rather not. You guys are the experts, what am I looking at here?
The motor will be mildly built while out, just generic stuff like a cam, and some headwork. I might do some higher compression pistons. Depends on what size motor and what kind of power it's going to put out origionally.
Anyway, what are my options as far as motors go? Is there an FAQ thread somewhere that you can point me to where this has already been discussed? And are there companies that make mount kits for this type of thing?
Also, is there any V8 that will hook with this tranny to make things easier in the beggining? I'll be upgrading to a different trans later, but right now I want to keep it as cost efficient as I can just to have something with some nuts to use as a tow vehicle.
Again, I know you get asked a million times, but any help would be greatly appreciated.
-Todd
www.import-enthusiasts.com
www.gumball3000.com
Car #185
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Red96SportDak
Dodge Dakota
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1/26/2003
09:48:18
|  RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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You shouldnt have to worry about hacking any fender wells as these engine bays were designed for small block magnum V8's. Now if you were to use a newer magnum V8 the frame will have exisitng holes for the motor mounts to bolt right up but since you are talking about running a carb i'm thinking your looking at an older motor to drop in and therefore some minor mods would be needed to get it to bolt in because the mounts themselves were moved on the newer engine blocks. Regarding the transmission you didnt mention whether it was an auto or stick but typically Dodge offered one tranny for the 4 and 6 cylinders and a heavier duty one for the V8's meaning i wouldnt waste my time with the tranny thats in it right now especially if your planning to tow with it.
Hope this helps and i'm sure if i forgot something there will be more replies coming to point that out.
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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1/26/2003
12:15:22
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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you may want to consider how high the engine is going to be with that 750 on top, you may end up geeting a scoop put on to cover the hole ,if needed
but then that just sounds better dosent it
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DakotaDan
*GenIII*
1/26/2003
13:16:37
|  RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Just get a Mopar (380 HP)crate engine strip all the computer stuff and go with a carb hehehe.......
Dan
Next Time You Think You're Perfect
~~~~~Try Walking On Water~~~~~
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KMS Luder
Dodge Dakota
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1/26/2003
14:11:26
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Nothing against the Magnum V8's, I have a lot of respect for them. But I have a feeling that I can do a lot more with a carb'd motor right off the bat. Would anyone make a kit to drop in something else? 360? Um... small block 383 stroker with a blower? :)
Oh, and I'm not concerned about hood height. If it doesn't fit, I buy a cowl induction or run a scoop or a bubble. Wah... the price we pay to boil the tires in 3rd. :)
I also just thought that wiring, etc would be easier if I just yanked it all and went carb'd. Maybe I'm wrong?
If I DID decide to go out and buy a magnum, could you give me an idea of what kind of costs I'm looking at, and how easy they "plug" up to the existing equipment? Maybe someone on here has already done it and I could talk with them a little?
I did forget to mention what trans was in it, that was my fault. The tranny is a 5 spd. And you are correct, it will barely tow itself out of it's own way, much less anything else. I was just curious if the trans would bolt up to another motor while I worked on getting the install right before I started messing with the tranny. Kinda get where I'm going? I'd like to tackle one obsticle at a time.
Thanks for the quick replies guys, you've been helpful so far.
-Todd
www.import-enthusiasts.com
www.gumball3000.com
Car #185
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chris
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2003
17:30:18
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Message:
try summit racing ,the used to have a magizine/catalog on newsstands
if not no better place than you mopar dealer
M assivly
O ver
P owered
A nd
R espected
nuff said
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Cerecke
GenIII
1/26/2003
18:25:37
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Message:
No way a 4 cylinder tranny will handle the torque of a V8 and it definately wont hold up to a V8 hauling anything of substantial weight. A magnum motor has nothing to do with it being fuel injected, you can buy a magnum crate engine thats designed to run a carb (manifold and cam are already setup for a carb) You can get the 300 HP magnum ready to roll (minus carb and exhaust) for a little under 3 grand, while youre at it, look into getting a new tranny, possibly a 518RH so you have no computer stuff to deal with, either that or a 727, but that doesnt have overdrive, and if youre looking at running on the highway a lot, you might want OD, but if you want to save some cash, you can pick up a 3 speed for cheap.
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KMS Luder
Dodge Dakota
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1/26/2003
21:26:18
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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I've done some research, and managed to find several 360's and 5spd trannys from a late model Ram for under $1300-1500 used. I love living in the South. Will I have trouble with bolting up stuff like A/C, P/S, and the electronics? Has anyone done this swap here that I can talk to?
Now I'll start my search for a cam and some other little bolt on goodies just for fun while it's out. Guess I won't be using my 750 on this project. :(
I'm just curious now about the driveshaft back? Should I worry about the rearend? Or just try and toss in the 5.9 and tranny and go about my business? Er... that is, I'm assuming the driveshaft is the same length?
Sorry for all the questions, I like to have things planned out BEFORE I get ass deep in a project.
Thanks again guys,
-Todd
www.import-enthusiasts.com
www.gumball3000.com
Car #185
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Cerecke
GenIII
1/26/2003
22:06:24
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Message:
i wouldnt recommend the ram 5 speed/ 360 combo.....first of all the tranny wont fit without cutting the firewall. secondly and most importantly, the first gear in the ram 5 speed is 4.XX making it about worthless in your truck, not to mention the thing is a heavy SOB get an auto.
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KMS Luder
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2003
00:13:02
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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an AUTO? No offense, but... no auto's.
It was mentioned earlier that the V6 and V8 tranny's from the Kota's were the same. Would it be possible to use a tranny from one of these in combo with the 360? As far as "firewall" modification, what are we talking about here? A little bit of notching or are we talking about hacking it up? I have no issues beating out some room, or taking an inch or two with an air saw then welding up the difference... but if we're talking about MAJOR fitment issues, then, maybe a 318 is more my style?
My theory is here:
as long as I'm DOING something... I might as well do what I can. Why skimp when it all boils down to a little extra work?
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Cerecke
GenIII
1/27/2003
13:35:20
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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you still have the extra weight of the nv4500 tranny to contend with.....unless you can build up an nv3500 to handle the torque of the 360, I would recommend staying with an auto...lets comprimise here, put an auto with a full manual valve body.....autos can be built up that will handle the torture and punishment of anything you throw at it.......look at pro stock cars in the NHRA. Ive never done the ram 5 spd. swap, Id recommend going to a junk yard and look at both an nv3500 and nv4500 this will show you the size difference.
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KMS Luder
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2003
15:16:29
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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You'll have to excuse me for not being up to date on codes yet. I'm still used to *gasp* Hondas.
The only reason I'm getting this Dak is to tow my car to shows/races etc and have a decent daily driver that still has a little balls under it. I've pretty much built a Prelude beyond what any car should be built for the street. It's been built for the Gumball3000 cross country race. Basically, a Cannonball run. 600 HP on a T-66 turbo. Although, after I'm done, I'm getting out of the import scene, it's been flooded with idiots for far too long now.
I fully realize that autos can be made fast... and that some of the fastest drag cars in the world run modded all out auto's. I just like to play with my little 5 spd, and I enjoy driving standards. A little childish, yes, but I'm not at a place in my life that I want to say that I own an automatic yet. :) Can you blame me?
OK, from what I'm gathering, the nv3500 is the standard 5spd trans that bolts up with the daks that have a 318.... the nv4500 is a Ram 5spd. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, the concern is not that the nv3500 will bolt up, but whether or not it will HOLD the extra power. What can be done to beef up this tranny? What's it's weak spot? I've seen some decently quick daks with a 318, so I'm not quite sure where a mild 360 compared to a full out 318 will cause extra trouble on internals of a trans.
Thanks,
Todd
www.import-enthusiasts.com
www.gumball3000.com
Car #185
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cerecke
GenIII
1/27/2003
21:05:44
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Message:
im not a manual tranny expert by any means, but i know that the nv3500 wasnt meant to handle the torque of a 360....which is a lot more than that of a 318. That is why the rams had the heavier in all senses of the word tranny, the nv4500. man, and if I wouldve know all you were pulling was a ricer, id recommend you keep the 4 banger.......it only weighs a few pounds!!!!!!!j/k
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old dude
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2003
21:45:32
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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Message:
Why play around with a V8 crate when you can
plug in a V10 viper engine?
http://members.rogers.com/evilc.rt/viperdak.jpg
(Hey, if they can put it into a motorcycle...)
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KMS Luder
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2003
22:51:24
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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V8 crate? No... I'm getting a junkyard motor. LOL
I'll start up another thread about the tranny issue, since it seems to be a seperate problem.
No one has answered yet about whether or not the electronics, A/C, P/S etc will bolt up to a 318 or a 360 in this truck. ?
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cerecke
GenIII
1/27/2003
23:06:14
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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I believe that a junk yard motor comes with the main mounting brackets included, so the ps pump, ac and everything else should mount up fine.....you might want to do a little research with the electronics.....even though your 96 should be obdII, i KNOW that you will need a V8 computer....your fuel system might need to be upgraded as well, but then again, if you go carbed, a lot of the headaches will be eliviated.
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beatdagutz64
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2005
15:30:18
| RE: 4cyl to V8 swap, search didn't help much
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I was just wondering how much this would all cost roughly? I'm thinking about doing the same thing to my dakota
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