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T.W.Cox
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2002
22:27:55
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 Subject: RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Just installed a pair of PowerStop cross-drilled rotors and 9-1-1 pads. The drilled rotors are better for my basic commuter driving than the slotted ones, according to everyone I asked.
The problem is solved for now, and hopefully for good. Installation was a breeze, and no special tools were needed. (...unless you consider a torque-wrench a special tool. And that was just to get the lug nuts tightened to factory spec.)
If you are looking for a good supplier, call Ralph at Olympic parts. (800)370-0041 (And no, I'm not connected with Olympic, just pleased with the service and price.)
...and if anyone has information on a class-action suit, I'm saving the original parts and receipt for the new ones as exhibits A and B.
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Hans
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2002
22:01:08
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Very interesting thread. My experience has been with warped rear drums, not rotors. My dads 91 model warped the drums, though at admittedly high mileage. My 98 has also warped the rear drums, though I continue to live with it for now, since I'm planning a refresh at 60K miles for all those wear items.
One point I didn't see mentioned was how to tell the difference between warped drums in the rear and rotors in the front. Either will cause the brake pedal to pulse, but warped rotors will also cause the steering wheel to vibrate.
As for overtightening the lugs causing the problem, I doubt it. All of the pulling force is transmitted into the axle flange for the rear, and the thin diaphram protion of the drum is sandwitched between the flange and the wheel. I do not believe you could cause any damage this way. The fronts could be another story, but then again the hub of the rotor is massive. Think about an accident, you usually see wheels broken, and even rotors, but very rarely does a hub break.
As for longevity, I own a 74 Ply Satellite and a 79 Lil Red Express Truck. The Satellite has ~120K and the Red Truck has ~190K. Neither of these vehicles every warped a drum or rotor, and both have spent the last 10 years with me making the occasional runs at the track. If a 105 Mph haul down to make the first turn isn't abusive, then I don't know what is.
The entire problem is an engineering design flaw, likely encouraged by the desire for lower emissions, higher gas mileage and reduced cost. (Being the skeptical engineer, I like to think the last item was the biggest driver and some engineer posted the warning but was ignored.) Lighter thinner drums and rotors take less material to make and ship, they also reduce the inertial forces that have to be overcome for acceleration and stoping. Add it all up and it's a win win for the factory - pitty the consumer.
Just for completenes, semi-metalic pads were used for their ability to resist brake fade in repeated or long braking events. With asbestos type (which are not available, though an organic repalcement is)the pads got hot and lost their abitliy to grip the drum/rotor. Semi-metalics transfer heat from the pad to brake drum/rotor surface. I have never seen it written, but it makes sense that a semi-metalic equiped vehicle would have higher drum and rotor temps.
As for my old cars, I run organic pads, and that may be why I've never had a problem. I don't do this to prevent warpage problems, but to prevent rotor and drum wear. Semi-metalics are hard on them, and with an older car why wear out hard parts. Besides, they were shipped with asbestos pads so an organic replacement is factory equivelant. The Dakota came with non-metalics so that is what I will replace with. Besides, the hard parts are readily available.
I noted my wait for 60K miles. At this time I plan on refreshing all four corners with aftermaket brakes, drums, rotors? and shocks. Also the obligitory fluids, belts and hoses change. I only have 3K to go, but with a reduced commute it will be the fall before I start on it. I was actually cruising the site looking for parts tips.
Beyond the brake issue, my Dakota has been easy to keep. Lost a fuel sending unit at 20K and no problems till the brakes at about 45K. Hope the best for all others.
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Hans
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2002
22:05:24
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Pardon my mind fart - The dakota comes with semi-metalic pads.
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LONE
Dodge Dakota
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2/17/2002
10:10:30
|  RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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HANS, YOU CAN CHECK THE REAR BRAKES FOR WARP BY GOING SLOW AND APPLING THE PARKING BRAKE SLOWLY, THIS WILL TELL U THE WHOLE STORY, BETWEEN FRONT AND REAR WARPAGE. PS PARKING BRAKE ONLY OPERATE THE SHOES NOT THE PADS.......THERE IS ANOTHER WAY IF THAT WON'T CONVINCE YOU......GOOD LUCK
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DAWG
Dodge Dakota
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2/17/2002
10:13:55
|  RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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THAT LONE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT.
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SCOTT
Dodge Dakota
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2/20/2002
16:55:00
|  RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I own a 2000 DAKOTA 4X4 EXT. CAB with just over
11,000 miles. I had a bad vibration problem when
I applied my brakes. I just got home from the dealer where I bought my truck. They wanted to
turn both the front rotors and the back drums for
a cost of $220.00 plus sales tax. There is no way
I am willing to do this. In all my years of driving I have never had any problems with warped
rotors or drums and my driving style has not changed. Dodge ruined a great looking truck with
worthless junk for brakes. I am through with Dodge
and I am looking at another brand of truck to replace my Dakota.
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Pam
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2002
13:48:41
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Dodge isn't the only product they make with this problem. I am experiencing same issue with my 2000 Wrangler. Rotors were warped at 3434 miles and turned down 1/4 inch. Now at barely 12,000 miles they are wrapped again. Turning down won't solve problem. Daimler-Chrysler trying to be cooperative (so I think), but they are having problems with their dealers who don't want to accept this under an existing problem. Been told they know they have a problem, which is probably why they no longer cover rotors as part of the braking system under their 36/36000 warranty. I am frustrated. Glad vehicle is paid off. I am going to unload it.
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Bill
Dodge Dakota
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4/26/2002
01:17:57
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Where is the RAM 2500 websight? I have the same warped drums on my truck. It has been back to the dealership 11 times for the same problem. Dodge concedes that they can't fix it now and I have to spend $8000 to get the truck replaced. After a repair the problem returns in less than 300 miles. My Advice to EVERY Dodge owner out there. If you have a problem with your vehicle check the lemon law in your state. Follow the law to the letter as quickly as possible. Return the vehicle to the dealership the required amount of times for repair and get paperwork that the repair was done every time. Return it the required number of times in the same day if you can. Don't let it drag out. Time & miles will cost you money. Then cram the lemon law down their throat and force them to give you a new vehicle. Then go through the same crap again with the new you get. If everyone will do it Dodge will either go away or start correcting their problems. Good luck to all!
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David Lore
Dodge Dakota
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5/06/2002
18:01:22
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I guess I'm in the same boat with everyone else here. I bought my 2001 club cab 11/09/00. Had the inspection completed a year later and they were good enough to pass. By December of 2001 I just started noticing the problem but I rarely drive it more than once a week now. They deteriorated so fast after I first noticed I was astonished. After calling the dealer I find that I am on my own as well. I know this is a safety issue and though I rarely drive it I am going to find after market rotors to replace them once. If anyone know for sure if Power Slots rotors will work please let me know. I have already contacted them to find out because their web page does not list the 2001 Dakota. Good luck to everyone fighting this battle.
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Walt
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2002
20:13:34
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I have had the rotors replaced 3 times in the first 20000 miles at no cost to me. Now at 28000 they need it again but the dealer will not cover it. Does any one know what aftermarket rotor will work best?
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David
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2002
20:20:32
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I talked to Powerslots and they assured me that the 8738PSL and 8738PSR will fit my 2001 4X4 Dakota. They just haven't updated their web page. I should receive them and have them installed by next weekend. I'll post a reply if they don't work.
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Harry
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2002
09:46:29
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I just purchased a '93' Dakota with the same warping problem as everyone else. However when I looked on NHTSA's website I could only find 2 complaints about the brake problem and as far as I can tell, NHTSA is not even began to investigate the problem yet.
If you expect Dodge to recall this problem they are going to have to be pushed by some bigger entity like "NHTSA". Believe me, I work for one of the worlds largest companies and this company will not spend money unless it is forced to by some other entity with power.
The way I see it is you have a choice - You can keep shelling out the $$$ every 15,000 miles to fix Dodge's problem for them or you can take about 2 minutes to go to NHTSA's website and fill out a complaint to get this problem under investigation like it should have been several years ago.
Which do you choose?
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DOONANMAN
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2002
01:02:16
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I bought a 2000 4x4 ext. cab dakota with 13,000 miles that had this same problem. The Dodge dealer that I go to would not fix the problem due to it being out of the 12/12 warranty. I am a master tech at a BMW dealership and could not believe that it was not covered with 13,000 miles! Any way, I machined the front rotors which temporarly fixed the problem, but the more material you take off the rotor to make it true again, the quicker they warp! Needless to say I still have the violent shaking when stopping. I decided to try and deal with it till I can dump the truck. It is not only unsafe, it is down right embarrassing to pull up anywhere. I would be totally embarrassed if I were with the Dodge engineering department and let these truck brakes remain unfixed. It is to the point where I can not stand it anymore. Hate to beat the dead horse, but where do I sign up for that suit? Oh yeah I almost forgot, for the Mr. smarty pants who blames this problem on the torqe wrench, I happen to have six of them and use them every day! Doesn't matter how you torqe a warped rotor, it's still warped!
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DRUNKACE
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2002
01:16:06
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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SO.....
Dodge went with cheap rotors and/or
torque the wheels right(which I've never seen done correctly at any shop) and don't set your e-brake too hard( I'd agree with that if they were hot).
I've done a lot of brake jobs and can indead say that some rotors are made more precise than others. Seen 'em warped right out of the box. U can also see that some are unbalanced too.
I think the first big extreme heat magnifies this.
Standard duty ones are hit and miss(regardless of price----sometimes it is the shelf life that screws them up if they are not laying flat on their sides. Don't be afraid to return bad rotors and try another brand......or pay for performance drilled rotors, u know those were made right.
I'm still open to learning more about what makes them go bad.....
Any more thoughts?
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Kenny J. Joh
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
02:29:56
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I'm absolutely astounded! The Dodge deallership I have been going to for each of the four times my 2000 Dodge Dakota has been their for worped rotors in 37,000mi., has come to the conclusion that i'm driving w/my foot on the brake, and they havent seen this problem w/any other dodges that have come in. (Give me a f*%$#@! brake.) Better yet, give my truck a decent set of brake's....
Thak's to this sight, I will be sending a report to NHTSA, I will allso make this sight known to the dealler. Hew look's like the dumb A$# know?
Thank's..
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Kim Durham
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2003
11:26:01
|  RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I had a 1999 Dakota and the brakes warped on it 3 times before I finally sold it. Then to be a dumbA$#% I went out and bought a 2002, thinking surely the problem had been corrected. Wrong! At 18,000 miles I've got warpage. I'll let the dealer deal with it until I get tired of hearing there crap then I'm going to try the slotted rotors with Raybestos "BruteForce" brake pads. If that fails, I'm buying a FORD!!!
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lennie
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2003
16:07:04
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Yep, I have the same problem with my front brake rotors. I found this site shopping for new rotors after the dealer told me bumper to bumper warranty doesn't cover rotors. What a burn dodge hasn't addressed this issue because it's the second truck from dodge I've owned with rotor problems. However, I wanted to note that my problem didn't start until I had my tires rotated. Maybe the mechanics are hosing up our rotors by not properly mounting the new tires.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2003
17:16:29
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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2000 Wrangler. Brakes pull vehicle and steering to the left. Dealership replaced everything but the brake lines. Unusual tread wear on tires and vibrating under the brake peddal shortly followed again. Jeep now out of warranty. Dealership wont work on it any more. I haven't been able to diagnose the problem myself. but I know it's not the rotors. I thought maybe it could be some sort of proportioning valve which determines the braking pressure to each brake. I am however not a mechanic. Any advice or help would be great. I don't know where to start.
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bobin
Dodge Dakota
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3/24/2003
20:10:08
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Have had 2 Dakotas 2WD-1992 and 4WD-1996, V6 and V8, At 20k to 30k the rotors are warped. The last time I replaced them (with the best pads) I noted a very very sleight throb on the way home. My thought was that they were broken in wrong. It used to be that you made hard stops to break them in, not any more, one dealer told me it should be normal stops. Has anyone checked this out?
Another related factor is the pad material. My investigation indicates that there are 3 levels of brake pads; the best semi-metalic, the next lower grade semi-metalic and organic. They generate heat levels based on their stopping ability which is related to cost and the amount of semi-metalic material in the pads. Excessive heat is related to rotor warp. On my web searches on other vehicles they imply that organic pads seldom relate to rotor warp.
My next change will be with the medium pads. Anyone know other wise? (I have found only one parts store that handles all three grades.)
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PissedHoosier
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2003
17:02:36
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Just got back from the dealer in Bloomington, IN (never go to them again). They said rotors were warped and needed turning. Before I had gone in for service checked www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov for problems. The rotor issue was listed twice for the 2002 Dakota (more for 2001) so I was aware of the issue before hand. The dealer said warranty would not cover repair since it was after 12 month 12K miles(now right at 12 months-18k miles). Called Chrysler and they said they were not aware of a problem with rotors. It appears that I must be blind and deaf, by looking at this forum. If anything is to be done about this we nead to unite! The Chrysler number is 800-992-1997.
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PissedHoosier
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2003
18:37:06
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I am going to start contacting my Senators and State representative. This is the only way anything will be resolved. It appears obvious by looking at NHTSA web page they are aware of the issue, yet nothing has been done!
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PissedHoosier
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2003
18:37:15
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I am going to start contacting my Senators and State representative. This is the only way anything will be resolved. It appears obvious by looking at NHTSA web page they are aware of the issue, yet nothing has been done!
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OBXGirl
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2003
09:23:33
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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At 20k I had rotor warpage on my 02 dak. Been through this once before on my 99 dak. I just installed the PowerStop cross-drilled rotors with the 911 Extreme Performance pads for a total parts cost of $250. Installed them myself in under an hour. I hope this works for a long time or atleast longer than the OEM parts!
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Jen
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2003
10:06:35
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Nice to see I am not the only one who claims to have a problem. I purchased a 2000 Dodge Dakota, RT new for my son. This truck has 40K miles and this is the fifth round of replacement rotors at 350.00 each time. The dealers that we have had the truck serviced at claim the following reasons for our problem;
1st time - 6500 miles son drives to hard and hit the brakes hard.
2nd time - 14836 miles Sears over trouqued the wheels when they installed the new tires.
3rd time - 21850 miles Son back to driving to hard.
4th time - 32678 miles - bad rotation over troquing of brakes and or excessive heat from hard hitting while going thru mud puddles.
5th time (current) - waiting to hear, since, we purchased the last set of tires from the dealer and let them do all of the rotations/service on wheels.Noting truck originally came with Goodyear, bought Tracers (Bad for this truck) now we are in Michelins (great tires)
We purchased the extended warranty for this vechile to cover bumper to bumber to 60k miles. Not once were the rotors covered due to our error.
Is there any help or do we sell this truck and buy a ford or chevy.
Pardon the spelling errors.
Thanks for reading.
Jen.
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pacbob
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2003
13:04:39
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I have a 2001 Dakota Quad Cab 4X4. I have filed a complaint with NHTSA, 10018747. My rotors warped at around 15K and were resurfaced. At that time the dealer gave me the same BS about not knowing how to drive and riding the brakes. I have only been driving for >30 years and never had this problem before. Now at about 29K they are warped again. I am going the aftermarket route as I am sure that I will not get any satisfaction from Dodge. In July 2002 I filed a complaint with Chrysler as well. I got a response but no help. Everyone must call, write, and file complaints with NHTSA and maybe something will get done.
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bobin
Dodge Dakota
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6/05/2003
17:55:06
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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This is the response from Bendix/ Honeywell on the warped brake episode:
Robert,
I have attached an article that I wrote explaining what is happening to your truck and step your can take to alleviate
the problem. The friction material choice has little to do with how hot your brakes run, it is more a function of rotor
design and quality. You should always use rotors that are the same as OE in design and thickness. Bendix premium rotors
are exactly(sometimes the same as) OE rotors. Many offshore rotors do not mimic OE fin design and thickness. If you
really want to get you brakes running cooler, try using a heavy duty slotted and drilled rotor. We do not produce on for
Dakotas but I am sure that other manufacturers do. They are however, very expensive (90-135$) each. If you have any
other questions about your brakes, feel free to call me at 248-362-7186 between 8am and 430pm est.
Thanks you for using Bendix products,
Jay M Buckley
Bendix Answerman <>
Pedal Pulsation-How and Why it Happens
We have all experienced the feeling of applying the brakes at 50mph only to fell the brake pedal “dancing” under your foot. Most mechanics have also experienced a “pulsation” related comeback after performing a first class brake job on their customer’s car. Why did it happen? What are the causes?
In order to explain this we first must learn a few definitions.
RTV-This stands for Rotor Thickness Variation. Thickness variation on a new rotor should be practically undetectable. To measure for RTV, mark a rotor at 15 different but equally spaced intervals. Measure rotor thickness at these intervals and record. There should be no more than .001 variation on a new (or resurfaced) rotor.
Lateral Runout-Lateral runout is measured using a dial indicator mounted on the spindle or adjacent area with the pointer resting in the middle of the rotor surface. The rotor should be held on by at least three lug nuts torqued to specifications. While turning the rotor, note runout. It should not be more than .002
Rotor Indexing-This is the practice of marking the lug stud and rotor before rotor removal in order to return it to its previous position. This can be very important because the vehicle manufacturer may have installed the rotor in a certain position from the factory to minimize runout. It is not necessary when you are replacing a rotor.
Brake Align-Brake Align is a new company to the undercar business that has come up with a quick and easy way for technicians to correct runout-using shims between the wheel hub and rotor.
Non-Directional Finish-This is the practice of using sandpaper or other power tools to put a non-directional swirl type finish on all rotors, new or reground. It s now recommended by all vehicle manufacturers and helps to properly break in friction and rotor surfaces.
To properly install a rotor during your brake job, the following steps should be adhered to in order to insure a trouble free installation.
Index the rotor if you are going to reuse it, returning the rotor to its original position helps to insure minimal runout. Machine the rotor in a brake lathe and finish with a non-directional finish. Complete this with a wash in hot soap and water, drying with paper towels. Brake Cleaner does not remove all the metal particles from the rotor, shop air and rags usually contain oil that can contaminate rotor surfaces and friction material.
Proper cleaning of hubs and inside the rotor hat. It is extremely important to remove all traces of rust and corrosion from inside the rotor hat and the hub surface that the rotor rides on. Many techs use a wire wheel on a drill for this. This method does not do a good enough job in cleaning around the wheel studs. Kent-Moore makes a tool especially for this J-42450A. The 3M company also makes a special scotchbrite pad that is made to clean around the studs.
Checking the endplay of the hub bearing. Front wheel drive hub bearings should have .002 or less endplay. More than that will result in eventual RTV.
Proper tightening of lug nuts. You must follow this procedure to make sure you do not induce runout while installing the wheels. Do not lubricate the lug studs. All vehicle manufacturers say that you should never lubricate the studs. False torque readings will result. Hand tighten all lug nuts in a star pattern. Tighten to one half of maximum specified torque value. Tighten to the full torque spec as specified by the vehicle manufacturer. You can induce lateral runout by using an impact wrench to tighten lug nuts. This runout will lead to RTV and pedal pulsation.
Checking installed runout. If the installed runout is above specs, try moving the rotor one lug at a time to see if it can be corrected. You can also use the “Brake Align” shim system to accomplish this. As a last resort (the one recommended by all manufacturers) is to machine the rotor with an on car brake lathe. This will match the rotor to the hub and done properly, with result in no runout.
Why runout causes pedal pulsation 1-4000miles down the road. When a rotor is installed with over spec runout, it may not be felt in the brake pedal immediately. Over time, the high spot on the rotor wipes the friction material every time it goes around. This can cause friction material to be deposited on the rotor making the high spot even higher. When it gets high enough, pedal pulsation and an unhappy customer is the result.
Many technicians will say that this is not the way I have performed rotor service in the past. Brake systems and rotors are much different that they used to be. Rotors are much lighter and most do not have integral hubs. Sealed roller bearings have replaced tapered bearings. Performing your rotor servicing as outlined above insures a quality brake job as well as a satisfied customer.
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Freestyle
Dodge Dakota
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7/24/2003
01:41:39
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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Throw me in the Mix of Dak Owners With Warped Brake Drums.
2000 QC 5.9 4x4
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PissedHoosier
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2003
07:18:37
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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FYI I talked to a person at the NHTSA about a month ago. He stated that a few years ago they tried to take action against the auto manufacturers for the warped rotor issue. They had no success. My guess is the auto companies sicked their lawyers on them and they gave up. So much for the government protecting the consumer? He also stated management would not pursue this issue again. What do we do now? I think I am going to put sign in my back window. Dodge Dakota Rotors $uck!
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Ron Garske
Dodge Dakota
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8/05/2003
20:35:25
| RE: Report those Warped Brake Drums
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I "Had" a 97 clubcab that at 13000 mile rotors warped (out of warrenty) bought new ones and pads
and again at 15000 miles both rotors& drums so I replaced rotors with drilled & slotted and their matching pads from J C Whitney, I sold the truck with 90000 miles on it and no more problems
HOPE THIS WILL HELP YOU GUYS....I JUST BOUGHT A 03 DURANGO 4.7 HOPE THIS WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN
THANKS, RON
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