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Dakup
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
14:56:21
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 Subject: Frontend crunch
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I have an 02 Dakota Sport(21,000 miles) and sometimes on a hard turn when braking I hear a crunching sound coming from the front end. Like doing a U-turn or pulling into a parking spot I had it in about a year ago for this and the dealer said the had lubed some parts to fix it. But of course now the problem is back and as usual the dealer says they cannot re-produce it. Does this sound like a ball joint problem and steering linkages?
Any thoughts?
Do the ball joints have zerk fittings on the Dakota?
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Modain
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2004
19:22:23
|  RE: Frontend crunch
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My vote: Ball joints!!!
1) Put your truck on level ground.
2) Place a floor jack underneath the lower control arm (one side at a time).
3) Raise it to where the tire has lifted off the ground about an inch.
4) Grab opposite sides of the tire and start shaking/wobbling it. Side-to-side and top-to-bottom.
5) Repeat for the other side.
If you get any movement beyond the wheel bearing and spindle play the (upper) ball joints are bad. This requires a change of the upper control arm if Dodge parts are used, because the ball joints are riveted to the upper control arm.
Since you are within the warranty limits this is what you should push your dealer to do. The noise and problem will not get any better as time passes.
After mine was fixed at 35K miles I was amazed at how quite my truck's front end was when going in and out of driveways (especailly turning through them), and going over rough roads or speed bumps.
Join the rest of us with out ball joint "war stories"...
=========================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7l, 5-speed, 3.92LSD, loads 'o fun (and new ball joints!)...
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Dakup
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2004
11:14:08
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Thanks for the repsonse Modain. Did you have the same sort of crunching noises that I described before the dealer fixed it?
How did you get them to end up fixing it? The dealer that I take it to always says they cannot recreate it. The noise doesn't happen all the time but it has certainly not gone away.
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Tech
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2004
13:49:27
| RE: Frontend crunch
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That's not the proper way to check the balljoints. They can be worn and show no visible movement, at least none you can detect. To do the job properly you need a dial indicator.
There's plenty of possible causes from sway bar bushings to end links to shock bushings to loose (worn) shocks to tie rod ends to steering rack to the intermediate shaft. Many shade tree mechanics point to the ball joints and blame them because they're a percieved weak point.
If you're not happy with the dealer that can't or won't fix it, take it to another dealer.
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Modain
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2004
13:36:29
|  RE: Frontend crunch
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Dakup,
I didn't have a "crunching" sound I experienced that alerted me to front-end suspension component problems. But I did notice a very loud "clunk" sound when 1) turning full left and rolling over uneven surfaces, 2) going over speed bumps faster than a crawl, 3) driving straight at freeway speeds over rough spots in the road. I also had a situation where the steering wheel was now riding a little to the left of center.
When I would do a slow full left (u-turn) I would get a loud "pop" and when I straightened out the steering wheel it would return to center for a while.
It started very small before the truck hit 12,000 miles. I asked the dealer to look into this and they lubed the steering stop (or something like that) and said the problem was fixed. No, it wasn't.
Progressively the noises got worse and the occurrences more frequent. I then performed my inspection I told you about and found the upper right ball joint to have (I would estimate) at least 1/8" play. Not good. And the sound was consistent with what I heard inside the cab. (No dial indicator needed here.) The left side didn't exhibit the same symptom. (Maybe I didn't relieve the load when I lifted it off the ground?) (Maybe this was the one that needed a dial indicator.)
I took it to the dealer and explained in detail the noises and how to reproduce them. Whether they actually verified those or just decided it was ball joint time, I don't know. But I got a call three hours later stating they were replacing the upper control arms. When I got the truck back, guess what? No more funky front-end noise. As it should be...
How are your driving habits? This hasn't been established. But I would make the guess that being a new and pricey vehicle you are not abusing the suspension by hitting rocks, potholes, etc. at steel crushing speeds.
Tech,
If you're intending to insult savvy vehicle owners for diagnosing what the service departments won't readily recognize (most times) in a timely fashion, there's no need for that.
It's no secret that the ball joints have serious problems. And it's not the fault of anyone working in a DCX dealership. They were desinged and built that way. The Dakota and Durango share the same front-end suspension and we are all very aware of the heat being turned on DCX by the news media. It just hasn't been pointed at the Dakota (yet).
So when someone complains of front-end noises on a very low mileage vehicle it is not out of line to suggest or insist it is the ball-joints.
=========================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7l, 5-speed, 3.92LSD, loads 'o fun (and new ball joints!)...
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Tech
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2004
04:46:23
| RE: Frontend crunch
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I wasn't trying to insult anyone but with all due respect I do this for a living and what you are doing is called "jumping to cause". His problem might very well be ball joints but it could also be any number of other things. The method you described for checking the ball joints is wrong.
Guess how many times a day I deal with "savvy vehicle owners" who thought they would save a few bucks by fixing their vehicle themselves and in so doing have replaced every part they could only to find none are the problem. At least once a day.
Sometimes so called "savvy vehicle owners" are the biggest PITA in the universe. To make it simple, I don't tell you how to do your job...
Yes the ball joints are a known issue but they aren't the only wear item that goes clunk when it dies and it has been blown up in the media. No insult, no flames just stating facts.
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for tech
Dodge Dakota
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1/24/2004
08:40:50
| RE: Frontend crunch
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modain is nothing more then a knowitall that gets his exercise by jumping to conclusions. Most techs I have gone to know their stuff and do a good job, the few, and very few at that, that do a poor or incompetent job usually are not employed for very long. your way of checking ball joints is the right way, the "grab and shake methode" usually will show not only problems with ball joints, but tie rod, "A" arm, wheel bearing, swaybar, and even loose lug nuts, for him to say that is the way to check for them is at best, foolish. It could contrary to what he said in his first response, be the lower ball joints instead of the upper, I for one would not go to him as in my case he would have wasted both my time and money replacing my upper joints when it was in fact the lowers that were bad.
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Dakup
Dodge Dakota
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1/26/2004
09:18:22
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Tech,
Are there any ball joint/suspension/steering part recalls on the 2002 Dakota. I think I will get another dealer to look at the problem but I want to have a little more ammunition before I go in.
Thanks
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Modain
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2004
20:44:15
|  RE: Frontend crunch
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for tech
You are most certainly incorrect. Are you trying to initiate a flame war? Are you trolling? I thought the intention of this website was for Dakota enthusiasts to trade information, knowledge, experiences, help, and other valuable contributions to the folks who choose to spend their time here. There are plenty of other website destinations we can better spend our time at without subjecting ourselves to your (and other's) "know-it-all" rantings.
Looking at my original post I did make the mistake of concluding that any excessive movement had to be the upper ball joint. My bad. It could be the lower. That's where using one's eyes and some smarts will help isolate the problem area.
I don't know why you or anyone else feel the need to make yourselves appear better than the ones being bashed based on a few paragraphs of typed words. Outside of this information you know nothing about me. If you base your opinion on that minimal amount of information that is your choice. I could make mine as easily about you if you would like me to do likewise.
Have a good evening, grow up, get along with others. Pick any two.
-Modain
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Tech
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
16:14:55
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Dear Mr. Savvy,
I find that those who tell other to "Have a good evening, grow up, get along with others. Pick any two." have serious mental issues and need the help of a psychiatrist. Also, you need to take your own advice.
I am better than you because I know what the hell I am talking about and you don't. You're just one of those know-it-all jerks that I encounter every day who likes to pass along his "knowledge" to others because he believes he is truly being helpful.
You're not. You are an ignoramous of monumental proportions and you still don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm trying to inform this person and help them cover all the bases and you're trying to make him spend money that he may not need to.
You are a danger to others who use this board because your lack of knowledge about how to diagnose faulty ball joints could lead to an amateur reaching the conclusion that their ball joints are not faulty when they actually are. The consequences of that could be deadly.
People like you should be bound and gagged. It seems to me that you are the one trying to initiate a flame war as it took you 8 days to respond to my last post. Get it through your thick skull that you are not a mechanic, have never ben a mechanic and you never will be a mechanic. You're a know nothing wannabe.
I'm a real mechanic and you're not. Now do shut up.
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dakup
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2004
11:35:19
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Can I get my questioned answered tech? Do you know of any ball joint recalls on a 2002 2wd dakota sport?
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Tech
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2004
05:01:52
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Sorry for the outburst. Typing on a k/b makes it easy to forget your talking to other humans. While I do disagree with Modain that's no excuse for be to belittle or berate them. Sorry for being a childish dick. My bad.
The balljoint situation for Dodge Durango's is currently being investigated by the NHTSA. They will decide when and if a recall for balljoint failures in Durango's is warranted. So far Dakota's are not involved in the investigation.
So the answer is no.
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modain
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2004
08:40:11
|  RE: Frontend crunch
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tech
It's too bad you couldn't spare the other folks who read this forum from your admitted childish outbursts before you took up your cause to publicly castigate me because I am "not a mechanic, have never ben a mechanic and you never will be a mechanic. You're a know nothing wannabe" and that you are "better than you because I know what the hell I am talking about and you don't". There are other accusations you included, but that should be enough for the purpose of this discussion.
You really went far out on a thin limb by making such statements. Do you treat your coworkers that you disagree with in the same manner? Do you treat your friends this way? How about the paying customer that doesn't feel you understand his vehicle's issue?
Check out these posts. They offer the same (and more) method for determining if ball joints are a source of someone's front-end problems. Did you blast into them with your tirade? Do they need to be "be bound and gagged" to satisfy your psychiatric diagnosis?
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/10493.html
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/15320.html
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/12837.html
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/14815.html
I am finished. You have your opinion of me, and that probably won't change. You have supplied enough information for me to form an opinion of you. It may not be correct, but this opinion I hold of you probably won't be changed either.
Dakup
I am sorry your quest for help was turned into a p!ss!ng contest. That's not why you came to this forum for help. I appologize to you and the other readers for what has happened.
I hope you have been able to equip yourself with enough knowledge to know what you are needing done to your truck, and to hold the 36/36,000 warranty and DCX dealership liable to give you a correctly working truck.
Good luck.
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Dakup
Dodge Dakota
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2/05/2004
15:09:36
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Modain,
Thanks for the links the other posts. In this one
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/12837.html
they were taking about a rack and pinion problem with crunching and grinding noise. If it isn't ball joints do you guys think it may be that or something else? Sway bar or something else in the frontend.
I can get it to happen mostly when I am pulling into a parking spot and braking while turning. Then once I am in the spot with the brake on I can turn hard left or right and hear the noise.
I am getting sick of having the dealer tell me they can't recreate it.
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modain
Dodge Dakota
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2/05/2004
16:05:26
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Just have the balljoints replaced. I'm sa sa sa sa sa savvy!!!!
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Modain
Dodge Dakota
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2/05/2004
23:26:53
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Ignore the last post. It was an imposter who is a je je je je je jerk!!!!
If the (insert noun here) at the dealership's service department can't recreate your problem then you need to take someone for a test drive. I would suggest a technician in addition to a service writer. That way, when they realize there is a problem the poor person fixing it doesn't to rely on the half-baked problem description that is put into the repair order by the service writer.
You know what conditions are needed to make the problem occur. Make it happen. When it happens, look at them with a real puzzled look and ask, "is that supposed to sound like that?".
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Dakup
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2004
01:22:06
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Dah. Geez, your posts get more stupid and more useless every time. I never could have figured that out for myself. Dah.
Now shut up and let a grown up reply. Thank you.
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Dakup
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2004
11:07:08
| RE: Frontend crunch
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I guess someone if using my name as an imposter as well. Thanks for the tip on the dealer. I will definitely take the service writer for a ride.
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Modain
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2004
20:59:40
| RE: Frontend crunch
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I knew you didn't offer that reply based on everything you had posted before. It was probably the same bogus modain poster who is too chicken to post with his/her own identity.
Good luck.
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chicken
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2004
21:17:12
| RE: Frontend crunch
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I may be a chicken but you are still a know nothing , spend money needlessly, let them get killed due to you being wrong, idiot.
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Modain
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2004
01:00:08
| RE: Frontend crunch
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Message:
Shut up arsehole.
I'm sa sa sa sa sa sa sa sa sa savvy.
Get it?
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