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JKBarger
Dodge Dakota
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9/25/2002
18:26:31
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 Subject: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Hey guys and gals, has anyone heard about a "drain back" issue with the 5-45RFE auto trans for the 4.7 dakotas? I was told that a drain back problem is when to much of the trans fluid in the tourque converter drains back into the trans pan. They said that the way to check if the trans has a "drain back" problem is by getting the trans to normal operating temp by driving it and then checking the fluid level on the dipstick with the truck running and in park. You then let the truck set and cool off over night and check the fluid level. If the level rose over an inch on the dipstick then you have a "drain back" problem.
I hapen to have a 2001 extended cab dakota with the 4.7 and 5-45RFE auto trans. After the truck sits for at least an hour after being driven the next time I would start it and put in drive the truck would just sit there and not move. It felt as if the truck was in nutral. If I let it set there idleing it would gradualy begin to grab hold and move. If I would rev up the engin then it would grab hold sooner but still gradually not all at once.
I took it into the dealer because thankfully it's still under waranty. They told me after having it for a day that Dodge's Tech Support said that they have seen this on a few 5-4RFE auto transmissions. On all the past "Drain Back" problems they had just thrown alot of parts all at once a the problem trans and they weren't sure what was the primary cause of the problem. Well they decided my truck was going to be the test vehicle to finally get to the cause of the problem. They have gone through the transmission replacing everything one thing at a time from the seals to the pump to the torque converter to the solonoid pack to just about everything else. Needlss to say I've been with out my truck for a while. The Dodge service director for the east coast has decided to replace the trans with a new one and send mine back to the lab for a complete analisys.
Oh well, just thought you all would like to here about this and it may help out diagnose a similar problem on yall's 5-45RFE auto transmissions.
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Silver02QC
Dodge Dakota
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9/28/2002
16:45:34
|  RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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What happened when you were at complete stop and let up on the brake? Did you just sit there and gradually start moving? I have an 02 QC with the 4.7 / 5-45RFE combo and experience this this type of behavior at the stop light. If I accelerate, the truck starts moving. Is this similar to what yours did or is it normal for this truck?
Let me clarify this one. I don't expect the truck to take off when the brake is let up, but it creeps when the brake is let up.
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william
Dodge Dakota
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9/28/2002
20:40:42
|  RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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same with mine. i have a 2002 and sometimes it doesn't even feel as the truck is running. iam taking mine in to the dealer to see whats up.
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jkbarger
Dodge Dakota
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9/30/2002
11:35:27
|  RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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TO answer your questions mine acts fine after it has had a change to warm up slightly. I have had no problem with the trans from a stop light or shifting. I have found out that mine was due to the transmission fluid draining back to the pan from the tourque converter. With my ignorance of the internal configuration of this transmission taken into consideration, mine sounds like a valve was not closing to keep the fluid in the tourque converter. Your problem sounds like a problem where a valve is not opening to allow fluid to flow too the torque converter. I know there is an internal solonoid pack that is controled by the transmission controller that allows fluid to flow to and from the required areas of the transmission. If the controller or the solonoid pack is malfunctioning then the transmission will not work properly. Both of those are easy fixes where the transmission doesn't need to be pulled. However the bad news for us with the 5-45RFE transmission is that no dodge technicians are alowed to work on the transmission with out the direction of Dodge's tech support because the transmission is so new. That means alot of try this and try that taking alot of time. Some dealers will not even work on this transmission telling you that "They can't find a problem with it". I've been through that with mine. It got to the point that the director of service for the shop that my truck is at has told the regional director of service for Dodge to put a new transmission in the truck and take mine to figure out what's wrong. I'm suppose to get my truck back tomorrow HOPEFULLY. I'll be getting an extension to my waranty for the new transmission they just put in. I've heard that Dodge is having alot of problems with their auto transmissions and I don't want to be out in the cold in another 10,000 miles.
GOOD LUCK!
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BigBlue QC
GenIII
10/02/2002
13:02:21
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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I don't know if this will make a difference in diagnosing the "drain back" problem but I believe the trans dipstick says to check the fluid at operating temp and in NEUTRAL. Hope you all fix your problem.
2002 QC 4x4 Sport Plus, 4.7L, auto, Patriot Blue, Tire & Handling group,
Heavy Duty Service group, Leer cap w/out windows, Mopar Step bars and roof rack, Rhino liner in bed and on step bars, Pace Edwards Power Tailgate lock
3.55 rear, 4-wheel anti-lock brakes, all possible fluids are AMSOIL
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J-R-M
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2002
00:49:08
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Alright as far as the drain back goes, it is suppost to drain back 1/2 of the torque converter. It's called "Gravity" and every car truck with a automatic does it at one time or another. That's the main reason the books and every mechanic including me checks the Tranny Fluid on a level surface with the vehicle running at idle and at operating temp some in Neutral like our Dakotas and some in Park like Chevy.
Another thing even if it did drain back over night or even in a couple of hrs, 2 sec after start up the main pump on the Tranny plus the fluid that is already in the torque converter would fill back up in seconds.
The part about not wanting to go after you put it in gear. There can be 2 problems
1. Low pump presser due to a defective main pump or internal valve body leak.
2. Slipping clutches & or Bands.
That's my educated guess............
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DW
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2002
21:00:37
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Have the same problem with a 2000 Dak Spt, 4.7, auto. It doesn't drain back all the time, maybe 1 out of 3 days. Symptom, parked over night, start truck and it takes 5-10 seconds before the truck starts to inch forward. Within 10 feet it's good to go and does not have the problem for another 2-3 days. Never had an auto trans do this before, hop in my V-8 S-10 (700R4) fire it up, pop er in gear and off we go.
Anyone figure out the fix to this problem yet?
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mdandl
GenIII
10/08/2002
11:58:05
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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There is a check valve on cooler line to prevent convertor drain back , if its bad it will cause this
shift to netural after starting in morning it will fill convertor back faster , it only takes a few seconds
mike b
1997 Dakota Sport RC V6, Magenta, Dynomax Ultra Flow, K&N, APC Clear Corners, NR White Face Gauges, Mopar Boards, rails, Line-X, and Others to come
2000 Dakota Sport RC V6, Dynomax Ultra Flow, K&N, ARE Cover, Soon to be PLUM CRAZY
NEW TOY 1987 Dakota RC LB V6
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QUADMAN
GenIII
10/09/2002
21:43:34
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Mine has done this since new also. If I get in it after an overnight sitting and crank it then shift immediately to go it just revs and creeps slowly but after about 10 feet it goes on.
OPINIONS ARE LIKE....WELL, YOU KNOW THE REST!!
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parts manager
Dodge Dakota
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10/16/2002
15:59:00
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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545rfe one of the biggest pieces of crap out there nothing compared to the 904/727 Rebuild needed before every trip (RFE)
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Jack
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2002
10:08:47
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Are yall sure that it is the 5-45rfe and not a 45rfe tranny? I thought I heard the 5-45 will be available starting in 2003 models! The 5-45 has 2 overdrives and 2 second gears where the 45 has 1 overdrive and 2 second gear ratios.
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jkbarger
Dodge Dakota
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11/03/2002
13:39:27
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Well it's been about a month since I got my truck back from the shop ater a new trans was installed. I had 45RFE before they replaced it with 5-45RFE. I have no problems with drain back any more and with the new 5-45RFE with the two over drive gears I'm getting better MPG. About 2MPG more than before. I'm happy again.
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duane
Dodge Dakota
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11/04/2002
19:03:17
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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go to your local dodge dealer and order a drainback valve and install in your cooler line pressure side simple
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dctech
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
23:43:40
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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Between the input shaft and the input clutch hub there is a torque converter drainback valve. This is the cause of your problems. I was at tech training and our instructor informed us of this customer complaint stating they have had a lot of these drainback valves sticking. Take it to your local Chrysler dealer, even if out of warranty, complain and they will help you out, I know ours does. If they refuse to help you out ask to talk to the regional service representative. Hope i helped.
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alan
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
03:40:41
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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I have a 2002 4.7 with 45rfe tranny. It does a couple bad things. 1) it can indicate reverse on the console with shift lever in reverse but truck is in neutral. 2) hellacious ticking grinding noise in reverse sometimes and if I shift into drive and back to reverse the noise goes away.Anyone have any ideas? I am not getting anywhere with the dealer as they cannot duplicate.
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Len
Dodge Dakota
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5/03/2003
20:45:36
|  RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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I have an '02 Liberty with this 545RFE tranny and it IS a piece of junk. Slowing to a stop you can feel a hard drop into first gear almost every time. Same when starting from stop. It will seemingly go from neutral into gear again with a hard drop. ANY IDEAS?
lmcnabb01@juno.com
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Jeff W
DakotaEnthusiast
5/04/2003
21:45:46
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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One disturbing trend I'm noticing here.
You guys should be letting your trucks idle longer than a few seconds before you pop it in gear & take off. Give it time to circulate oil thru the engine before you drive it! 30 seconds is plenty, then drive it easy until it gets up to temp.
If you were doing this you probably would have never even noticed the tranny problem.
'02 Sport 4.7 auto, Gibson exhaust, homebrew K&N cold air, 275/60 BFG Radial T/A's, Infinity CD w/Pioneer & Infinity spkrs & Kenwood powered sub.
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David Vaughan
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2003
23:24:55
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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as too all transmissions having drain back that is not true once the torque converter is filled above the level of the converter hub there is a vacuum created by the weight of the fluid and air must be able to enter into the void that would be created by the dropping fluid level. With excessive bushing to hub clearance or pump gear wear air can enter from the air space in the main case via the vent.
most transmissions have an anti drainback check valve to keep the fluid from being able to gravity feed back through the cooler lines.
the 45rfe has avery sophistocated pressure regulation system using a pressure reguralator solenoid and a pressure transducer creating a feedback loop to create the exact pressure that the computer desires for the conditions that it senses.
I have heard of many problems with this system causing improper pressure regulation at low rpm.
hence possible slow fill or slow engagement.
also teh 45rfe has a 3 gear scavange type pump rarly used in todays automatics the only other one I have seen is the 4T80E (northstar v8 front wheel drive trans)
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allan
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2003
08:40:55
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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This is in response to the e-mail from alan about the ticking noise heard in reverse. I have had that happen to me a few times and I assumed that it was because I didn't have the lever in the indent properly and it was slightly in Park. The ticking noise was the Park pin clicking across its recesses as the truck rolled back.
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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9/29/2003
17:31:32
| Another defective Auto?
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This is just what Dodge kneeds right now. Another faulty automatic. They finaly got rid of the week,out of date, piece of Sh!t auto " 46RE" and replaced it with a hi-tech, upto date with that is now having problems?? When is the transmission department going to finaly get it right?
I owned a Dodge Dakota with 45REF (4speed)and never experienced this problem before. Is this only in 5 speed autos'? I assume that a deffernt torque converter is used in the 5speed?
I've thought about swapping a 545REF on my 94 dakota. Could it work. My current transmission dosn't have a back drain problem, But it does like to hang around in second.
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Nic
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2004
12:32:30
| RE: 5-45RFE auto trans drain back problem.
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I agree with letting the engine warm up and then running it. Here's a selfish question. I'm coming up on my warranty and I was wondering if there are any concerns I need to look at that I might be overlooking. So far, everything I've mentioned to the dealer has been "classified" as normal wear. I guess I'm looking for lessons learned or more importantly, I don't want to say, "Damn it, why didn't someone tell me this before my warranty expired." Thanks.
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