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craig czeczug
Dodge Dakota
12/27/2001
12:46:15
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 Subject: rotors
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Message:
Are there any official recalls for the front rotors? The dealer told me they are warped after only 20,000 miles. They said it was normal!
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DaveG
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2002
10:51:54
|  RE: rotors
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You have really touched on a sore subject. You will see a lot of people having the same issue, like me. Here is a kicker. If you would have brought the warped rotors in at 12,000 or less, Dodge would have replaced them. But now, they won't. They classify them as "wairable".
This is my first and last experience with Dodge.
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Andy Vh
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2002
17:14:35
|  RE: rotors
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I noticed my brakes "pulsate", indicating warpped rotors. If it only happended to a few random people, then it could be related to only that person. But, since it happens repeatedly, then it means Dodge didn't properly select the rotors for the braking loads. Usually that means they selected a "lighter duty" rotor, either the wrong material (like grey iron vs. ductile iron) or the rotor is simply undersized and it can't handle the heat load. If the replacement rotors are EXACTLY the same, they will likely warp also. Machining the rotor down also doesn't work because it FURTHER reduces the amount of rotor material to handle the heat load. They'll warp again, even sooner. Chevy Luminas were bad for this. Usually, the best source is aftermarket upgrade replacement rotors, if they are available. My 2 cents.
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rick w
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2002
22:30:48
| RE: rotors
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ditto on the rotors. mine were turned at 16000 by the dealer, after much protest, at their expense. my truck now has 33000 and they need turned again. is there any recall effort. this is obviously a safety issue.
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DaveG
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2002
12:13:56
| RE: rotors
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Message:
I have to agree with you, turning rotors don't fix the problem. Since heat is what causes warping.
If you look in the General board and do a search for "rotor", you find that a number of people have the same problem.
Being realistic, now that the manufactor's are doing major lay-offs, what is the possibiliy of them forking out millions to replace them? As soon as the rotors for my truyck ( '01 4x4) are available aftermarket (PEP BOYS), I'll replace them myself. I refuse to pay 400+ dollars.
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2002
14:09:56
| RE: rotors
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Exactly what I plan to do; replace the "marginal" factory rotors with "quality" aftermarket (Raybestos,Bendix) and be done with it. You have to keep in mind that manufacturers usually go with the least costly choice that meets the minimum specs the engineers develop for the components. I used to be an engineer for heavy trucks, and the buyers and accountants usually have too much say in those choices.
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Brakes
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2002
07:53:40
| RE: rotors
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"....and accountants usually have too much say in those choices"
Exactly what I have been saying all along.
Accountants should do what they went to school for and that is count money, not be involved in product development decisions.
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2002
13:12:33
| RE: rotors
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It's not the rotors, it's the PADS. I had the same issues with my 1996 S-10. If you have the rotors turned and switch to a carbon-metallic pad such as Performance Friction or KVR, they are much gentler to the rotors. I went over 70,000 miles on my S-10 without having the rotors turned, and I drive hard!
Later
Chris
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Lattimer
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2002
20:50:25
| RE: rotors
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I had the exact same issues with my 2000 Dakota. Turned the factory rotors at 15,000, then at 21,000. At 25,000, I put on Raybestos rotors, and they are still good at 50,000 with the factory brake pads. While kawzx7 is probably right about the effect of brake pads on rotors, in this case, the rotors are just plain junk all the way around. I haven't known anyone who hasn't had issues with the dodge rotors.
Shawn
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Neil
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2002
19:47:31
| RE: rotors
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The rotors will also warp if the lugnuts are not torqued EXACTLY correct. I turned mine at 30000, drove for 10000 miles and got a flat 10 hours from home. Took it to a goodyear dealer to repair and even though he used a torque wrench the rotor was warped after 150 miles. I have changed to powerslots and love them. By the way my co-worker has a Tahoe and had the same problem. He had to put powerslots on to get rid of the problem.
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Knobbyman
*GenIII*
1/16/2002
09:11:46
| RE: rotors
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I'm sure that I'm about to have the same problem. I found that I can replace those rotors for just $165 I'm going to get the new rotors & pads and see if the dealer will do the install for me if the old ones are warped.... The OEM pads put out to much brake dust as it is.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
http://www.knobbyman.com
----Speed only breaks stuff faster----
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2002
12:54:27
| RE: rotors
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Lattimer:
Point taken on the rotors, if they're crap, they're crap. I am going at my next turning(in the next month or so, orig. rotors have 13,000, light to mild warping) to use the Performance Friction Carbon-Metallic, and I'll let you guys know. I am still getting used to the truck, since I just got it used, in mint shape from my in-laws.
More truck than my S-10 ever was.
Later!
Chris
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2002
09:02:42
| RE: rotors
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The comment "it's not the rotors, it's the pads" is only partly correct. The REAL problem is heat. Dodge simply did not choose components to take the heat load generated by stopping these Daks. Both the pads and the rotors have to take the heat load. If the pads are able to carry more of the heat load without transferring it to the rotors, that will help. But in most cases, the rotors are simply not designed to take the heat load. Also, brake pad performance can be very dependent on driving style and braking load (city vs. highway driving). Since most all my driving is highway, I have very little warping. All city driving would wrap them much sooner. I had a friend buy "Lifetime" pads from Midas. Poor choice, cause within the year her rotors were GONE! But the pads where still good! The important factor here is balance, the rotors and pads used must "balance" each other. Based on what most people post, it appears the aftermarket rotors are the best alternative for MOSt applications.
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2002
10:47:42
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Andy:
True statement, but only partly correct(your words) as well. I really am gonna tell ya, I don't think Chevy sunk any more money in rotors than Chrysler did. I am gonna try the pads first, I am confident they will "balance" better as you stated.
If we are gonna use your argument, then rotor diameter and swept surface area of the pads also comes into play. But then we're talking bucks. Smaller rotors will get hotter. Cast iron is cast iron, we're not racing F1 here guys.
The Performance Friction pads are gentler to rotors, no question. I would hate to see everyone on the board waste money on brake kit when a simple pad change will fix the issue. Not professing I know all, but there is rational and then there's the deep end..........
Chris
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Knobbyman
*GenIII*
1/23/2002
15:52:29
| RE: rotors
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Message:
I like the deep end... If I have to replace something (sometimes even if I don't) then I'm going to put the best that I can in it's place.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
http://www.knobbyman.com
----Speed only breaks stuff faster----
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JP
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2002
20:34:04
| RE: rotors
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Message:
I have both a '99 Laredo GC and an '01 Dakota. The dealer says the problem with the Jeep (which I had to have rotors turned and pads replaced) is primarily pads generating the heat. I can see the other half that says good rotors could take it. Anyway , the main point is that the dealer indicated that they see a lot more Jeeps than Dakotas. Chrysler is not doing a great job with either product as far as brakes are concerned. I have not decided if I will wait for something bad to happen to change the Dakota pads.......
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2002
21:00:50
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Knobby:
I'm with ya man. I understand as I put the best stuff on my ride as well. Two things people seem to skimp om: tires and brakes. Those are two things which WILL save your life.
When my rotors go after their last turning, I will upgrade them, I was just trying yo bring another alternative rather than just rotors. I swear by the Performance friction products when it come to stopping, but boy do they put out the brake dust!!
Later
Chris
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
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1/24/2002
08:41:29
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Hi Kawzx7. Your comment "but boy do they put out the brake dust!", have you noticed rapid pad wear as well? Maybe that's the "gentler" aspect of the pads you're using. I'm not saying the pads are a bad choice, and in fact since I do mostly highway driving with fewer stops, they may be a good alternative for me. But in heavy stop and go driving, I wonder how they would hold up? Just curious. Thanks for the good feedback.
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/24/2002
14:08:21
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Andy:
Yes, I do think that's big part of it. They also use these types of pads on race cars where pad life is not the issue. I can tell you that I drive 80% highway, and my Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads lasted well over 80,000.
They work better as they get hotter, not to say they don't stop well when cold. After a couple good stops, they will put you through the front window! The brake dust is not heavy heavy, but defintely more so than the stock pads on my Dakota or S-10 ever put out. The service tech at Chevy told me that the pads will outlast the life of the car in most cases, no joke.
What I like about the Performance Friction pads is they mate well to new rotors even when they are "well used" or "broken in". I did have my rotors turned once in that 80,000 miles, but they were not pulsating badly, my driving style(fast with hard braking) will warp rotors, and I am picky when rotors start to even gently pulsate.
An ex-race car mechanic turned me on to them, and I will never use anything else. Best $55 I ever spent. I also have carbon-metallic drum brake shoes on my S-10(no issues, great stopping after 100,000 miles), I gotta find some for my Dak.
I am in the auto biz as I work for a supplier, and these rotors are nothing more than $10-15(believe it, when sold in volume) parts. So if we expected OEMs to put Baer Claw or Powerslots on, forget it. They make their money on replacement parts.
For instance: most aircraft engine manufacturers sell engines at break even or loss(I come from aerospace industry), but make boo-koo bucks on replacement parts!!
Later
Chris
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/24/2002
14:10:49
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Oh yeah, wanna know the markup on Superchargers?? How's 600%+ sound??
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
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1/25/2002
13:29:59
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Thanks Chris for the detailed response. It does sound like a good way to go. I have been aware of Performance Friction pads since the early 90's when I checked them out for Class-8 custom fire trucks (I used to be a chassis/brake engineer for Pierce Mfg). I will probably still replace my rotors anyway (I always like part replacements that improve the vehicle) along with the PF pads.
How about sensitivity? Is the "feel" or responsiveness of the brakes still pretty linear?
Since I do a lot of winter/back road driving with a 4x2 Dak I don't want oversensitive/grabby front brakes.
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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1/25/2002
13:50:55
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Feel is very progressive(you always feel like you have a little bit more left!). You can also modulate the stop much better than with the very hard stock pads.
I can't wait to get these rotors turned and the new pads on(probably March, it's useless in winter for me now)!
I'll tell ya, with these better front pads, it will bring out the weaknesses of your tires, I may have to upgrade the 255/60-15's the truck came with, with a much stiffer sidewall.
Talk to ya later
Chris
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GATOR
Dodge Dakota
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2/18/2002
14:02:33
|  RE: rotors
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I had a 2000 quad and turned the rotors at 15k, replaced them at 24k, turned them agin at 38k, traded the truck at 46k for a 2001. I have the original rotors on the 2001 at 42k with no problems to date. The 2000 calipers must be creating more heat or hanging up. The 2001 also drives straiter and is not effected by road crown like the 2000 was. If anyone has an after market part # for rotors I would be interested.
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Nate
Dodge Dakota
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2/18/2002
15:03:42
| RE: rotors
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Does anyone know where/if you can get aftermarket rotors?
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Dave
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2002
10:11:43
| RE: rotors
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Message:
OK all
I have filed a complaint with the NHTSI about the rotors if we get enough people to complain they will force Dodge to do something about it. So go to thier web site and put in your 2 cents.
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BlackDakRacer
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
09:59:20
| RE: rotors
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What about titanium brake pads?? I was looking at JC whitney at some cross drill rotors and I saw some titanium brake pads, and they suggest that they should be used with those rotors.
~~Eric
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Bill
Dodge Dakota
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3/05/2002
10:42:55
| RE: rotors
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I picked up Raybestos Quiet Pads and Raybestos Rotors from PepBoys and put them on about two weeks ago and these ones seems to be ok so far. Guess I won't know for about 10,000 more miles because that seems to be the point when they start throbbing again. I previously have had my brakes and rotors replaced twice at "Just Brakes" and I thought I'd do it myself this time around to see if they last longer and saved myself about $400 bucks. I've only got 74000 miles and I'm on my 3rd set of rotors and pads now. This sucks! You know what "Just Brakes" never even bled the brake lines because there were no tool marks on the bleeder screw. That made the biggest difference after doing that. What a bunch of retards they are I thought that was common knowledge to do that.
99/5.2L/4x4, K&N FIPK, Gibson Swept Side/ Pro Comp 32/11.5/15
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Jason
Dodge Dakota
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3/07/2002
11:00:31
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Here is something I found. It may or may not help.
Brakes Model: Dakota
Manufacturer Recall Number: 00V193
Units Affected: 40000
Defect: Certain pickup trucks built with 2.5L engines have been built with inadequate clearance between the left front brake tube and the power steering hose.
Consequences: A puncture of the left front brake tube can result in a loss of breaking force at the front wheels, increasing the risk of a crash.
Corrective Action: Dealers will inspect the brake tube and power steering hose for wear. If were is evident, the brake tube and/or power steering hose will be replaced. A power steering standoff bracket will be installed on all vehicles to ensure that adequate clearance between the brake tube and power steering hose is maintained.
Note: Owners who do not recieve the free remedy within a resonable time should contact Dodge at 1-800-992-1997.
Brakes Model: Dakota
Manufacturer Recall Number: 00V198
Units Affected: 437000
Defect: Certain pickup trucks may have been built with inadequate clearance between the rear axle vent hose and the brake hose.
Consequences: Abrasion of the rear brake hose can result in a leak and a loss of braking force at the rear wheels, increasing the risk of a crash.
Corrective Action: Dealers will inspect the rear brake hose for evidence of wear. Worn brake hoses will be replaced. The rear vent hose will be shortened by 3 inches and a clip will be installed to ensure that clearnce between the axle vent line and brake hose is maintained.
Note: Owners who do not recieve the free remedy within a resonable time should contact Chrysler at 1-800-992-1997.
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RICK
Dodge Dakota
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3/25/2002
12:44:52
| RE: rotors
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I HAVE AN 2000 RAM 4 X 4 I JUST REPLACED THE FRONT ROTORS FROM PEP BOYS AND PUT CERAMIC PADS AND HAD THE CALIPERS REBUILT. WHEN THE CALIPERS WERE REBUILT INSTEAD OF THE STOCK POLY CARBONATE PISTONS I HAD THE BUT THE STEEL ONES IN. THE BRAKING POWER IS AWESOME NOW I RECOMMEND IT TO ANYONE. HOPEFULLY IT WILL LAST ME UNTIL THE SRT-10 COMES OUT.......
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Varnuke
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
20:00:48
|  RE: rotors
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2000, extended cab, 4.7, auto, 4x4, LSD, 100,000 miles after 2 years and 3 weeks.
Front rotors replaced and/or turned approximately every 12-15,000 miles by dealer. Back drums replaced once thus far after turning, current back drums pulsating again have already been turned down once. Most recent replacement front rotors started going bad again at about 8,000 miles.
Definitely a major problem with the design of the brake system on these trucks. I blame the government from outlawing asbestos pads which never killed anyone. Other than that, I love the vehicle.
LSD started to sound like a rock grinder at about 80,000 miles on turns. Friction pads going or something. Most miles are open highway driving.
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Gator
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2002
08:07:03
| RE: rotors
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Message:
Sounds like your having the same problems I had on my 00. On the 01 I still have the original brake set up from purchase with 51k miles. Dodge had to have changed something from 00 to 01. I also do a lot of highway mile. Dodge sell an LSD additive and so does GM. Right now I'm having to replace my fuel pump assemble $280 and a drivers side window operator $150 on my 01 Dak QC. On the window operator a $2 piece of plastic failed the rest of the assembly is ok but of course you can't buy the one small piece.
http://www.randysringandpinion.com/ These guy's are very reasonable and good if you do need some Diff. work done. Gator
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