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ram41569
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2002
22:08:13
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 Subject: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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I have a 2001 Quad cab with the Infinity system.I went to change the stock front speakers with Infinity Reference 605c components and the sound level was much lower then the stock speakers.The reason was that the stock speakers are 2 OHM's and the Infinity Reference are 4 OHM's(like almost every other brand quality speaker).There is a company called Sound Stream and they have 2 OHM speakers that look good.With all the talk of upgrading the stockers,nobody ever said anything about the 2 OHM stockers.
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R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2002
11:07:37
|  RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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It only makes a 3dB difference, the difference in sound level is cause you got a beefier speaker that can handle more power. High end speakers usuelly sound better at mid-high volumes then they do with low power. Stockers are very sensitive at low volumes, but they can't handle any high volumes. That is cause they have a small magnet, and a weak cone, not just because there a 2 ohm.
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Nicholas
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2002
20:59:43
|  RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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If you want to replace the Infinity components, I suggest replacing them with the Boston ProS 6 - 1/2" woofers, with the 1" tweeters. I threw them in my dak, and they are amazingly so much better then the Infinity. But the sound quality yalso depends on your deck. I replaced my stock deck with an Eclipse. If you really want to spend some money on an awsome system, you can get the Eclipse 3421 deck for like $300, and the Boston components for $450, easy to install. But you also have to remember, being components, you can balance the sound into the front a little more, because of the seperation between the high and mids. The speakers in the rear are 2 way, meaning that they have a woofer, and a tweeter coming right off of that. That's an all around POS. They sound good, but Components are a hell of alot nicer. You could also throw components in the rear, you'd just have to cut a hole for the tweeters, and find a place in the panel for the corssover. But seriously, if you are considering anything, if its not too late. Go with the Bostons!
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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3/25/2002
04:09:22
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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Can you tell us what stock system you have/had in your truck? I would be very surprised that the stock speakers would measure two ohms, this is usually a sub-woofer type of thing. The speakers in my truck measure approx 4 ohms but I ordered it with the base stereo because I knew I was gonna upgrade. I am wondering if you had stock components and are measuring the tweeter and speaker together, this would give you two 4 ohm speakers run parrallel to give the 2ohm load but usually stock systems that do this use 8ohm speakers so they can get a 4ohm load. In that case, replacing with a 4 ohm speaker and 4 ohm tweeter would be fine but run them in parallel as well to get more volume (Not sure if your Reference cross-over has bi-amp capabillity???). I would also measure the stock speaker again all by itslef out of the vehicle and move the woofer in and out while measuring it, the resistance should change...if not, you may have blown the stock speaker which is giving the lower resistance.
A 3db difference is definately noticeable. R/Truck is right about the sensitivity. Usually the sensitivity of a speaker is measured using 1 watt of power and measured at one meter from the speaker. The stock speakers may produce more sound at this level than other speakers, but will not be capable of playing as loud. If you only had one stock speaker and are now trying to run two much better speakers, you are definitely gonna notice a reduced volume A stock head unit only has a little power to give out. The big thing is that if you are upgrading the speakers you should be upgrading with a better head unit or an amp.
Sound Stream isn't just any company. They have been making tremendous amplifiers and very good subwoofers for a very long time. Their smaller speakers are very well built as well but I prefer others (such as the Bostons).
Also, if you do want to put components in the rear, many systes have a bracket that holds the tweeter in the center of the larger speaker so you can mount in one hole.
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ram41569
Dodge Dakota
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3/27/2002
06:40:21
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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To DodgedobJB,I have the Infinity upgrade from the factory with the factory amp.I have a Kenwood MP3 palyer radio which is hooked up to the factory amp.The factory amp. is running at 2 ohm's,cause the factory speakers are 2 ohm's.I want to stay with the factory amp,cause of space for an amp. is not much in a quad cad.I already made a box with an 8" sub that's behind the rear drivers' side seat with an amp. behind the pass. side seat.I'm going to wait until there are more company's offering 2 ohm speakers.
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ram41569
Dodge Dakota
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3/27/2002
06:40:25
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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To DodgedobJB,I have the Infinity upgrade from the factory with the factory amp.I have a Kenwood MP3 palyer radio which is hooked up to the factory amp.The factory amp. is running at 2 ohm's,cause the factory speakers are 2 ohm's.I want to stay with the factory amp,cause of space for an amp. is not much in a quad cad.I already made a box with an 8" sub that's behind the rear drivers' side seat with an amp. behind the pass. side seat.I'm going to wait until there are more company's offering 2 ohm speakers.
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R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
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3/27/2002
10:49:33
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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You may be waiting a long time.
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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3/27/2002
19:28:21
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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As R/Truck said...you are gonna be waiting a while on those 2ohm speakers. There's not many reasons for manufacturers to make such speakers unless they are subs.
You never specified how you measured the speakers so that you knew they were two ohms? I still find it quite surprising that infinity would make 2ohm speakers...it would require a much better amp to drive them which would cost Infinity a whole lot more cash to make in addition to making a completley seperate speaker line than they sell to the public. There's no benefit from their standpoint.
I checked with Crutchfield and you don't need an adapter to replace the head unit, unlike many other vehicles with Infinity systems that I have upgraded. I'm glad to see Infinity has made it a little easier to upgrade.
Joel
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ram41569
Dodge Dakota
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3/28/2002
21:56:44
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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To DodgedogJB,I checked the speakers with a multi-meter and they were 2 ohm's.Maybe the reason for the 2 ohm's is to get a 3db increase over a 4 ohm speaker.The difference is major when put side by side.The factroy amp. ins't that big so maybe there trying to get the most volume out of it.They do it for sub's,why not start for regular speakers.
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ram41569
Dodge Dakota
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3/28/2002
21:56:48
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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To DodgedogJB,I checked the speakers with a multi-meter and they were 2 ohm's.Maybe the reason for the 2 ohm's is to get a 3db increase over a 4 ohm speaker.The difference is major when put side by side.The factroy amp. ins't that big so maybe there trying to get the most volume out of it.They do it for sub's,why not start for regular speakers.
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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3/28/2002
22:32:30
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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Well if you say they are two ohms I'll believe you. The reason I'm so surprised is that a 2ohm stable amp is much more costly to manufacture becuase they have to be built with better materials. It would be much cheaper to manufacture a 4 0hm amp with the same power output as the 2 ohm stable one. And like I said before, manufacturing a 2 ohm speaker for only OEM applications doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Most auto manufactures buy their speakers from major speaker manufacturers. For example most Acura speakers are made by Pioneer or atleast used to be. The speakers out of my truck read about 5 ohms but if you move it in a little the reading goes to about 4 ohms. That is because the speakers don't always rest at the zero position without power. At the zero position i'm guessing they would read about 4ohms. But I doubt that your stock speakers are that far away from the zero point.
The reason many manufacturers offer 2-0hm subs (as well as 4, 6, and 8 ohm and occaisonally 10ohm) is because subwoofers are often strung together in various configurations to be run off one amp. The different resistance values allow for these configurations and still getting a proper resistance at the amp. Subs often have one, two and sometimes more voice coils as well to help with this.
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chrisheap
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2002
22:52:12
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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If you guys realy want to know the truth about your Infinity Systems Email me. I work for Infinity (their OEM group) If you did not know Infinity, JBL, Karman/Kardon, Mark levinson...... are all owned by the same company Harman International. Harman/Becker Automotive Systems is the sub group that does all the OEM automotive sound systems.
And yes those speaker are 2ohm And It Doesn't cost more to Make an amp 2ohm stable.
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2002
23:15:50
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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Chrischeap...If it doesn't cost more to make a 2ohm stable amp can you tell me why every amp that is two ohm stable costs significantly more than amps that are only 4ohm stable??? I'm guessing because 2ohm amps generate a whole lot more heat requiring better materials and design.
Yeah I had heard that Harmon International had sucked up all those other companies. What work do you do for them? Can you tell me why they chose to go the 2ohm route? More power from a smaller package? I haven't had a chance to look at a Dakota with the Infinity system but I someone told me that each speaker has its own seperate amp? Not sure if thats true but if it is, why that and not one main amp? If there is just one amp do you know where it is in the Dakota?
I'll email this to you as well.
Joel
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chrisheap
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2002
10:48:33
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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DodgedogJB, let me reword that (it was late) It doesn't cost more to make a low powered 2ohm amp. we use what is called a chip amp. a nomal aftermarket amp has several transistors or FET's or something similar, a chip amp is all those in a single package, ie smaller and cheeper. But some of the price you pay for a 2ohm aftermarket is because it sounds more impresive to say that an amp is 2ohm stable.
as far as harmAn sucking up all those campanies that is just the tip of the iceberg. at my calculations by 2043 we will own 87% of the northern hemisphere LOL. But when we do buy a company we tend to keep the quality it had or if it was a failing company we improve them.
and sence you asked I am an electronic tech. by degree but I mainy do installs, box constuction, custom door panel work, build custom grills, fiberglass work, and at the moment about 14 bilion other things, I leave tomarow morning to Japan to do installs in about 5 Toyota Cars under the marklevinson and JBL names. but I will read your Emails.
And if you are interested In my Standard cab Ram I Instaled (the seats still go all the way back and recline all the way)...
xtant1001 on two Kappa perfict 10's
2 xtant 202m's that run frount lows and mids (lows are kappa per. 6.5" mids are 4" metal matrix diaphram drivers)
Eclips 50x4 that run front highs (25mm cmmd tweets) the center channel (4" mmd mid) and mono rear for fill (mono in rear Left-right to remove vocals)
2 6 chanel digital amps with the power outputs removed to drive all amps and work as an 88 pole parametric EQ and DSP
Kenwood 915 headunit w/ 10 disc changer
and an Alumipro 15 farad cap.
Chris
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Nicholas
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2002
11:29:34
|  RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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So does anywhere know where this 2ohm amp is locatated so I can pull it out! I am replacing everything with Boston components, front and rear in my Dak Club, and throwing a couple subs under the seats. The components in the rear as well as the subs will be powered by a JL 500/5, and the front set will be running off of a smaller JL amp. But, I want to pull this stock infinity amp out. So if anyone knows where it is, that would be cool! I appreciate it. Thanks
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2002
20:41:52
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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So you are saying that instead of traditional analog transistors and MosFETs you guys use a digital circuit amp? That would keep heat down and allow a smaller package but from what I know of digital amps there is a fairly low cieling on total power output. I think Pioneer had some digital amps out that were pretty small size wise but also had pretty limited power output even though it was much higher than a typical head unit. Others have digital amps with good power output as you know from your own install. Any idea why Harmon decided to make their speakers 2 0hm for OEM applications but doesn't offer them to aftermarket folks? Seems like an odd decision from a business standpoint.
Also do you know if there is a chip for each speaker or one main one and like Nicholas and I were wondering where are/is they/it?
I have a Material Science and Engineering degree with a Metallurgy specialization. I spend a great deal of time studying electronics theory for my job and do a lot of stereo work as a hobby for myself and friends. I'm a engineer for a micro electronics company that manufacturers MLCC's (multi layer ceramic chip capacitors). Its sure been nice to see the availability of aftermarket equipment increase so much in the last ten years. Used to be an all day project to replace a head unit and speakers. Nice to see that vehicle manufacturers have stopped trying to make it more difficult to replace a stereo system as well. I'd swear that Ford was actually desiging their systems to make it difficult to put anything but Mach systems in their vehicles about 1995-1998.
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chrisheap
Dodge Dakota
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3/31/2002
01:03:26
|  RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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I don't Have time to talk right now But I will email you when I get to Japan. I will explain the why's of 2ohm drivers, and what a digital amp really is.
Chris
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john quinn
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
12:30:29
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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The stock infinity amp is located in the passeger kick panel next to the keyless entry unit.
Good luck getting it out.
It may be easier to just disconnect it and leave it there.
Good luck.
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boomndakota
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
14:28:38
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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Image Dynamics make great speakers,and you can get them with 2 ohm impedance.
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
16:42:34
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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I think the amp is in the passenger kick panel like John Quin said. I have heard that a few times now.
I also realized that there may be away to use the after market Infinities you already have. There used to be a product that would match the impedence of a speaker you hooked it up to. So if you hooked it up to a 4 ohm speaker it would be like having two 2 4 ohms speakers in parrallel so you would get a 2 ohm load. I can't recall what it was called or where I saw it, perhaps Crutchfield??? I have no idea if they actually work or not or if they are still for sale but it might be worth looking into if you want to keep those speakers.
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Aleti 2000 LH
Dodge Dakota
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5/10/2005
04:29:05
| RE: Infinity Upgrade at 2 Ohm's
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Aloha everyone.
I just upgradede my front door mid drivers w/ Image Dynamics CXS62 I have a (2000 LHS w/ Infinity sys.) I purchesed Image Dynamics CXS62 2 OHM load speakers. It is actualy a compoinent set, 2-tweeters, 2 crossovers and 2 6.5" mid bass drivers. It is a noticfull diffrence in sound quality much better base response, I will be changing the tweeters this weekend. I needed to make my own pacer adaptor for the mid bass. but of cource i didn't use the crossover due to that all the chanles are dedicated on the Infinity Sys. Image Dynamics also has a 5.25" set as well with a 2 ohm load. However there not cheap expect to pay in the area of about $300.00 for the set, or $190.00 for just the midbass pair, the mid base speaker can be purchesed seperatly but the are on a factory back order ( 2 months or more). on the other hand if you have at least 3.25" of dept space you may want to consider the Audiobahn brand midbass driver, much less in cost around $125.00 for the pair, but it is a 3 ohm load speaker.
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