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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2004
23:42:08
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 Subject: 2 10's under the back seat
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alright, i saw a post on hear about 4 months ago where this guy put two 10s or 12s under the back seat of his dak. well, i have decided to take on this project. today i ripped out the entire back of my truck and i started to buid the wood frame for the box. i plan on putting 2 10 inch kicker comp vr's in it. (any info on these speakers would be appreciated) i will keep posting my progress. lata
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
00:56:30
|  RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Slim, that guy would probably be me as I put 2 RF 10's under the back seat of my CC in October. I built 1/2" MDF/fiberglass enclosures for the corners of the truck under the back seat. They roughly measured out to be .70 cu ft with a water test and packing peanut test, hard to get an accurate measurement with the odd shaped box.
The boxes tuck up under the plastic side panels and slide against the side and back sheetmetal to maximize the space, allowing the jack and other goodies to be stowed between the boxes and under the seat. If you want, I can take the car seat out and shoot you some pics this weekend.
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
01:55:42
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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could you put those pics up for me, i would be interested, i am thinking of doing the same thing, thanks
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
11:39:19
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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www.kicker.com read the tech manuals (PDFs) that will give all the info you need on the subs. Depth and air space are the critical issues.
- John
http://www.blueoceanpress.com/~storage/truck/index.html
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
12:54:42
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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DSW, i would appreciate it if you emailed me some pics. slimsjh@aol.com the way i have the box set up i think i have about 1.2 cu ft per sub.they are sealed.
does the fiberglass box have a good sound to it? i never really heaerd one. somebody told me that you have to fill the box with some kind of fiber-fill stuff. i dontr know.??????
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
13:52:59
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Sealed boxes should have fiberfill in them whether it's a glass box or all MDF, use about 1# per 1 cu ft. You might have to play with the amount of fiberfill to get the best sound. I put in 1 1/2, 1 pound bags split between the 2 boxes and called it good. The subs sound good in the .70 cuft boxes, but not as good as when they were in the .8 cuft enclosures of my old car. I had to sacrifice some air space to cram the sub boxes in the truck. Needed the extra storage and space instead of housing the subs in thier optimal air space, .7 cuft is their minimum air volume.
Only thing critical about building a glass box is the glass needs to be thick enough not to flex, at all. I used about 6-8 layers on the flat areas and 3-4 layers on the curved sections. When your building the box push hard on the glass, if it flexes add more layers of glass. You have to put the next layer of glass on within 2 hours of the last layer because the resin excretes a waxy film past 2 hours. Past 2 hours the new resin won't bond to the previous layer properly unless you sand the waxy film off. Just start in the morning and you won't have problems with the wax layer. Making it air tight is also critical, but if your putting on this much glass you shouldnt have air leaks.
Slim and Greg, I'll email you some pics as I don't know how to post the pics to this site and don't want to waste the time to figure it out. If you know an easy way to post pics let me know.
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
20:57:39
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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alright DWS, i tryed to start fiberglassing today. well, i had problems to say the least. i dont think that i put in enough hardener. so i took it all out and i well get someone who knows what they are doing to help me. i have the frame built just need to fiberglass now.
what does the fiberfill do for the sub?
thanks for the tips, i hope this thing sounds good.
slim
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
21:32:09
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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OOPs, forgot to mention that the box shouldn't be the first thing you try to fiberglass, try making an ash tray or something like you made in shop class.
Mixing the resin and hardner is the hardest part of glassing, too huch hardner and it's going to kick realy fast, too little and it's going to take for ever for it to kick. If it turned into gooey mess like Jello realy fast, you put in too much hardener. I learned the hard way, as it was kicking too fast on my first couple of layers of glass. My problem was that I was using a measuring cup and not getting all the thick resin out of the cup, throwing off the ratio of resin to hardener. If I mixed a 4 oz batch, about 1 oz of resin was left in the cup. Use a spatula to get it all out and mix the hardener in. Your wife, girlfriend of mom is going to be pissed that you are using the spatula because it's going to be ruined when your done with it.
Do a search here and on the web for glass bottom sub box or fiberglass sub box. I mentioned some of the gotchas a couple of months ago on another post, and learned a lot from some websites. Best thing to do is put on one layer and let it set for about an hour to harden realy good, then remove it from the truck and work on a bench. Much easier to work on a bench than hunched and contorted in the truck.
Pointers,
-Use plastic to protect the truck and foil to line what your going to glass over.
-Precut the glass mat or fabric before mixing resin.
-Mix resin and hardener accurately
-Mat is stronger than fabric, but fabric goes over contours better, mat for flat surfaces, fabric for curves.
-Get; rags, 2-3 mixing bowls, 1 gal lacquer thinner, spatula, 2-3 2" chip brushes, measuring cup, plastic, foil, 2-3 qts of resin, 4-5 yds of glass fabiric and/or glass mat,
-mix a 4-5 oz batch of resin and see if this is enough to cover a layer of glass without waste.
-Get the air bubbles and air pockets out from underneath the glass layers by stimpling or dabbing with the end of the brush.
-Clean the spatula and brush in a bowl with lacquer thinner and keep the brush in the thinner.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
21:41:04
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Fiberfill helps deaden noise in the box and makes the sub think it's in a larger box than it's in, since the sound waves have to travel around the fibers of the fill material. Way back when, we used to use fiberglass insulation to fill sub boxes, the crap is realy itchy but still works the same.
I make it habit to add some fiberfill behind the mids and to subs boxes. If in doubt, install the sub without it and see how it sounds, then add the fiberfill, you'll see what it does for the sound.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2004
00:58:41
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Just figured out how to post some pics, have the box pics up in a day or two.
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2004
14:08:15
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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i am about to go and tryout my fiberglassing again. im going to make sure that i do everything right this time. ill post tonight to let ya know how it went. cant wait to see the pics.
DSW, should i bolt the box right to the floor or should i put a layer of something between the box and the metal of the floor?
slim
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2004
17:24:49
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Hey Slim, I went to Home Depot and picked up an assortment of brackets and braces that are used for connecting lumber together, structural braces. They were alot stronger than the cheapie L brackets and also cheaper, about $.25 ea. You can kind of see one of the brackets in the first pic I posted, look for the screws at the top of the pic, just painted them black and no one knows the difference. I used 2 of the 2"x2" L brackets and a 4"x2" L bracket to mount each box and 2 of the 4x2's to connect the filler panel to the boxes.
Before securing the boxes I put down a layer of 1" batting between the box and truck body so the glass enclosure wouldn't make any funky noises ratteling against the truck body. The batting is like the fiberfill, except it's in sheet/roll form, pick it up at a fabric or upholstery store. Once the boxes were screwed down the batting compressed from 1" to less than 1/16" and didn't affect the fit of the boxes.
I posted the pics on another thread, Fiberglass CC Sub Box pics, check them out. If you want to see some more detailed pics of the boxes let me know and I'll get some close-ups posted.
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2004
21:31:38
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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i didnt get to start the fiberglassing today, but i did go buy all the resin, hardener, and glass that i will need to glass it. i also went buy a 800 watt cyclone amp. now i just need to get my subs.
hey DSW, if you know as much about wiring as you do about building a box please answer my other post "sub wiring question".
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MoJo
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2004
22:33:27
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Just dropped off my truck today for fiberglass mold under my back seat..(CC) fits 2 12"s and amp.. 2000W system and www.stealthboxes.com this guy is good im sticking a new logo for him on my truck when its done.. (im his little expiriment truck {proto})
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2004
17:22:20
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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well, i just finished my 3rd layer of fiberglass and i am waiting for that to dry so i can put another layer on. it is coming along really well. i am taking pictures as i work so i can post them on here if the box comes out looking the way i want it to.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2004
17:53:17
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Excellent Slim, Glad to see you got the glassing under way. I could feel where the weak spots were when I had 3-4 layers on, mainly the flat spots. Here's a tip, cut 2 peices of the glass mat/cloth in these areas and stick this down as one layer, saved some time since I had 2 peices stuck down in 1 application of the resin. Just have to make sure both peices of glass are saturated through realy good so it bonds to the last setup layer.
Interested in how it's going, Email me some pics.
fishrdan@earthlink.net
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2004
21:00:16
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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DSW, i got 4 layers done and i think i am stoping, i felt all over the thing and i cant find any weak spots. plus it will be bolted to the floor so i think that it is plenty sturdy enough. i will post pics and email you once its all done.
oh yea, i lined one chamber with a garbage bag, filled it with water and then pored the water in a bucket, if i did my calculations right i have .93 cubic feet. the subs specs say .8-3 cu ft. so that should be enough space if i put fiberffill in the box too right?
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2004
22:24:02
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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.93 cuft for a 10" sub spec'd at .8 to 3 cu ft is going to be good. You need to subtract the sub displacement from the air volume also. Your at .93 and lets say your subs air displacement is .06 cu ft, so your going to net out at around .87 cu ft. I don't think your going to have problems sticking any 10" sub into that air volume.
When I calculated the water volume I filled a 1 gallon jug to the proper weight for an accurate gallon using a scale and marked water level on the jug. Then filled the bag lined sub box about 5-7 times with this water jug to figure out the air volume. I also filled the sub box with packing peanuts and dumped this into a cardboard box and calculated the volume of peanuts in the cardboard box, both came out a little over .7 cu ft.
By weak spots I mean areas that flex, flip the box upside down and put a yard stick across the bottom of the box. Push realy hard on the flat areas and use the yardstick as a reference to see if the box bottom is flexing. If the fiberglass flexes it's going to throw off the woofer and make it sound bad to some degree. I think my boxes are smaller than the ones your building and I have 8 layers of glass in some spots to stop the flexing.
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2004
21:53:02
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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i just ordered my subs saturday, two kicker cvr 10s (2 ohm) i cant wait to hear how they sound. i cant find any weak spots on the box with four heavy layers. i even used your yardstick test and no flexing. i even stood on it and didnt feel any flexing.
if the seats hit the subs when they are down will it mess up the subs? they will be off when the seats are down, can this ruin them or affect their sound?
slim
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2004
00:00:51
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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Hey Slim, great to hear the box doesn't flex, you must have used the realy thick cloth. I would have been scared to stand on mine at 4 glass layers. I only put on enough resin to stick the glass.
Plus, I weigh 210 and could probably exert a little more force on a box, by standing on it, than a guy named Slim. LOL
You don't want the seats resting on the subs, even when off, it could distort the foam/rubber surround. I have seen a couple of people put 3/4" or 1" high sticks mounted on the box next to the woofer, keeps the seat off the sub and allows the sound to escape. Just make sure that the carpet of the seat isn't going to rest, or get pushed into the surround of the sub. If you have space you could recess the subs into the box. Mine are mounted 1" below the top of the box, even though it doesn't look like it. Try the stick thing or recessing the subs then you can leave the seats down all the time.
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slim
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2004
12:43:56
| RE: 2 10's under the back seat
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well, i weigh 250, the slim was given to me as a joke cause i am not. and it just stuck. i wont know if i have enough room to recess them till i get my subs in, that will be net week probably. that is what i want to do and i think i will have enough room.
ok, i want to do something but i dont think i can. i want to have alot of options on how the subs run, i would like to be able to run both, one at a time, or none at all, whenever the situation calls for it like if i have one person in the back. is there any way i can do this? like maybe use swithes or something. if i cant do this its fine but i would like to do it. throw me some suggestions.
slim
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