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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
19:01:17
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 Subject: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6bynoZEhFj0U87uFz7XOdGj1BOOhQnYzFEE3OK6lS4HGXUETfKLBXiBF16YBDZWoodzHsWNCEPUh8xFWPr2x2SXnrfiMaMR9iTNGhLo2hw*8Q$$
here are pics of my current setup only these don't show my subs covered.
I like this setup but the loss of space is the proble. I appsolutely love these subs in a ported box however and the sound is absolutely amazeing.
KovzR6's post about getting two 12's under the back seat has peaked my interest in designing a box for under the rear seat. according to xtants site my subs in a 1.0cuft sealed box have an x-max of 115.db and in a 2cuft ported box have an x-max of 117.db
I previouslt had an rt enginearing box behind my drivers seet of 1.25 1.5 can't remember which sealed and the ported box absolutely blows it away. Is it the placement? I tried box spraying the inside with dynomat and pillow stuffing and it didn't even come close performance wise.
I have figured out were I can get a total box volume up to 3.43 or around 3.5 under the rear seat. to around 1.75 a sub. can I port this useing a square sub and use port tuning to compensate for the lost voume? ie a shorter port?
which would hit harder 1.0cuft sealed or around 1.70 1.75 ported? spl is my main concern as I beleive the rear seat over the subs will block most if any sound quality issues I have.
bottom line I really want ported and spl but I don't want it to sound like absolute crap as always all healp is appreciated.
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
19:02:08
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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heres a link for my subs
http://www.xtant.com/html/products/X12.cfm
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
19:02:08
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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heres a link for my subs
http://www.xtant.com/html/products/X12.cfm
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Joezzzzzzzzz
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
19:32:50
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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Well ported will most always be louder than sealed , A good ported box can sound just about as good as a sealed box , Basically when you port your subs you are making them more effiecient hence the reason they get louder , It looks like your subs need 2cuft minimum ported and 4 cubes is a pretty big box.. Im goona go work on your box here ina bit on port size and see what I can come up with for ya !
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Joezzzzzzzzz
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
19:46:44
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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Wait , How in the He11 are you going to get 3.75 cuft under the rear seat ?? Thats a huge box man .. my 4 cube box for the back is 16x16x53 !
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
10:20:28
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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53x14x9 it will be a tall box maybe to tall for the back seat. I was going to cut the side pannels around the box. I wish I could get away with porting a box around 3.43 total volume.
what are some ways to get a sealed box louder? are fiberglass boxes generally louder?
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
11:11:14
|  RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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- what are some ways to get a sealed box louder?
More amplifer power. Sealed boxes can really take a pounding.
- are fiberglass boxes generally louder?
Fiberglass boxes are lighter and thinner, thus you can get more air space in a smaller box. A larger (sealed) box would hit deeper but with less overall volume (dBs).
Large sealed boxes are good for SQ not SPL. Ported boxes are best for SPL, but if not tuned correctly they can sound like crap because of tunning frequency of the port & box combination and/or port noise.
- John
http://home.mindspring.com/~jntmoore/truck/home.html
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pelly3s
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
12:00:28
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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a ported box won't always be louder, it all depends on if the sub prefers sealed, or ported. How you tune your box, the size of the box and many other little reasons. The only thing a ported box has is extended bass response with a bump in level at the tuned frequency. The rear seats will block very little noise, the bass frequencies are so long they will wrap right around. If you are going for SPL a ported will allow you to tune to box to the resonant frequency of the truck.
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
12:32:15
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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when I say makeing a sealed box louder I mean dynomating the inside etc. I have plenty of power I have an alpine mrv 1507.
I had to turn my amp down with the ported box but with either setup the subs would top out. I saw were someone put plexiglass over his subs in a cc on the mtx thunderform and stated it got louder would the same applie here?
basically Im looking to find a go between what I have now and practicality.
can I build a box for behind the side panels and connect them via pvc pipe or somthing of that nature? I've never seen this done but I could gain some airspace.
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
19:42:59
|  RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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OK I'll try one at a time again...
> when I say makeing a sealed box louder I mean dynomating the inside etc. I have plenty of power I have an alpine mrv 1507.
Dynomat is for metal not for wood - so I'm not sure what your talking about here. A ported box should be air tight except where the port exits the enclosure.
>I saw were someone put plexiglass over his subs in a cc on the mtx thunderform and stated it got louder would the same applie here?
Huh? If your talking about putting a board over the subs and leaving some SPACE between the board and the subs yes that does work - it's called slot loading. Take a look at most home theather subs as they use this design. They are boxes that fire down at the floor and the gap between the box and floor is what does the "slot loading". Plexi would be a bad choice BTW unless it's some really thick stuff.
>basically Im looking to find a go between what I have now and practicality.
You can't get blood from a stone, and speakers are designed to perform in a certain sized enclosure. Build the wrong box and the speakers will sound less than optimal shall we say. It's always a compromise in one direction or another SQ vs SPL.
>can I build a box for behind the side panels and connect them via pvc pipe or somthing of that nature? I've never seen this done but I could gain some airspace.
Yes in theory it would work, but the PVC pipe would have to be pretty good sized - like 3" or 4" atleast.
Maybe you should get some 10"s instead of trying to cram your 12"s into such a small space. 10"s in the right air space will sound better than 12"s in too small of box you realize.
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
22:12:37
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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all you said was true, when I said dynomat I mean like the spray on stuff I read you should always put some sort of dampening inside a sealed box.
also what about pillow stuffing inside a box?
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rick
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2003
23:19:36
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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ok now im really confused....the only reason you port a box is to tune it for lower hrtz. levels so when you port a box you are actually making the lows lower thus makin it louder ..it all depends on the speaker and size of air space required...and i took measurements of my dak king cab and came up with 1.5 cubic ft....now you could use a 10 inch and thus not such a huge box with a tuneing of it(port)and it would probably sound just as good as a 12 in a huge box...it also depends on your amp power too and speaker impendence too....mtx makes a fiberglass box that fits just like the factory storage tray under your back seat in a dak with 10 subs in it and i got to hear themin a install and i got to tell you, it sounded really good(im not into mtx...) i am a rockford fosgate man by heart ,there amps are freakin awesome and clean and solid power speakers take abuse...but what ever you decide to do just make sure you shop around and check things out first at local shops before goin out and makin a costly mistake....i hope this helps....if you need any info let me know.......later....Rick
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
12:09:09
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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also wouldn't 1/4 or half inch lucite be strong enough? I have some laying around but the stuff is hard to cut.
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
13:49:50
|  RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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Pillow stuffing or egg crate material keeps the sound waves from bouncing around inside the box, it also makes the box seem bigger to the woofer. In general it offsets the amount of air the woofers baskets takes out of the air space. It's good pratice to put some in to "soften" the sound.
1/2" lucite should work, just put screws in every 4 inches or so to keep it from bouncing and leave about a 3" to 4" gap between the subs and lucite.
rick - porting does not lower the Hz of the box/speaker combo - in fact it raises it! But at the ports tunning frequency output volume (dBs) will be very high, thus it gets loud but only in a narrow-band area. Ported boxes sound "boomy" whiile sealed boxes have a deeper, soild bass.
Take a look at the graphs in the technical breifs at www.kicker.com and see how the same speaker performs in various sealed and ported enclosures of difference sizes. You'll learn alot from those charts... even if your not using Kicker subs.
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rick
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2003
21:18:02
| RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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ok jmll....how do you think it gets boomy? by droppiung the hertz level it gets boomy..thus a port to help it tune..by size and width...by sealing it makes it solid hittingalso db levels will increase and decrease in how you tune and build ur box so in a sense your right but in a sense your wrong it all depends on speaker, power tunning modules and box dimensions....and i dont care for kicker to well there ok ..but used them in sound offs and had problems...im now part of rockford fosgate force......never had a better system ....more bang for the buc.....i should have used themin the first place....anyhow i hope some off this helps who ever....later all....rick
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JMII
Dodge Dakota
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3/24/2003
11:31:29
|  RE: knowledgeable. ported vs sealed? help
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"Boomy" to me is stuff ABOVE 60Hz. Ported boxes are rarely ported even one octave lower down at 30Hz! Dropping the Hz makes it sound deeper. Sealed boxes get louder as thier size decreases, however this raises the Hz - so they can get loud & boomy too. However I perfer deep, solid bass with smooth transitions... and ported boxes do not do that very well. The problem with deep bass is that you need a large sealed box and it's not going to be as loud. Oh well... no such thing as a free lunch, so to each his own.
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