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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2002
18:16:35
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 Subject: RE: Kicker L7's
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joe
since you seem to have a problem with them you might want to look at your install. i know several people running a similar setup as you and their not having any problems with their vc's. have you considered building a different box, getting 15's, changing your port, adjusting your gains on your amp and head unit differently, etc?
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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2002
18:21:22
| RE: Kicker L7's
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joe
when you say you could see the amp pulling power from other devices after a couple hours, what exactly do you mean, what devices, headlights? just take a voltmeter and measure how much your voltage drops and this will tell you whether or not you need a better electrical system....btw, i'd get an extra battery dedicated to your stereo before i'd get a cap.
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rd
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2002
23:36:18
|  RE: Kicker L7's
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First of all if you know anything about a cars electrical system you would know to upgrade it in the following order for car audio components.
1. Battery and Vehicle Ground Wire Upgrade(4 or 0 gauge should be used)
2. Add a capacitor to the system.
3. Replace the factory battery with a deep cycle car audio battery.
4. Upgrade your alternator to a higher output alternator.
5. Add a second battery to power just the sytem.
( This involves new wiring and proper isolation circuitry to prevent battery drain.)
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BIGTYMER
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2002
19:54:44
| RE: Kicker L7's
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holtsch, they are quad coil 18's. He's got a pair of visonik v900xd's bridged on each coil. He was thinking of changing them out for the new extreme 2's. If you know dbdrag you may know him. His name is paul neslon and he's the record holder for extreme 1-2.
rd, I beg to differ.
1)battery and wiring
2)second battery
3)alternator
4)more batteries
A .5 or 1 farad capacitor is worthless.
I'm not understanding why your accessories would be getting drained after a couple hours... unless your amp has a high power/high current setup it won't change the amount of current it draws from the first second you turn it on and even in this case it only takes an amp a few seconds to change.
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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2002
23:33:02
| RE: Kicker L7's
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BIGTYMER
thats what i didn't understand when i read his msg. i agree w/you about the cap's also
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tekmon
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2002
22:26:35
|  RE: Kicker L7's
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Ok, Looking and Listening.. Currently have (4) 10" Kicker Comps, in the old Honda Trunk Box wedged in the back of the new '98 Dak-SLT CC.. gotta upgrade.
All the talk about the L7's... Can I fit (2) 12" L7's tucked neatly under the back seats without giving up the seats ?
Just how much room is under there, if I yant the plastic, loose the jack, and dynamat.. ?
Would like to leave the stock look.. hide the goods, but still set off the alarms at the show and in the pk-lots..
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Chantz
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
10:08:17
|  RE: Kicker L7's
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Okay guys! It seems like alot of you know alot about audio systems and problems you may encounter. In reply to those of you blowing your L7 voice coils...I'd have to say you must have a bad install. These subs must be run straight from each coil to an amp source. Wiring the coils in parallel to get lower OHM's severely puts unbelievable strain on the coils, making them very, very hot!!! Second, check to see which models you have. If you have a dual 4OHM model, they must be run in 8,4, or 2OHM "STEREO" mode, not through a Class D mono amp. Only the 2OHM DVC model can handle the extra current. Third, if your running a vented box, you MUST have a subsonic filter cutting off at 35Hz. Without it, your subs will fire mad levels of damaging and highly distorting frequencies. That's why L7's are ignorantly known to put out dirty bass in vented boxes. Fourth, these subs will not perform well at all in a sealed enclosure. L7's are designed to BREATHE, and must be allowed to push large amounts of air through the coils. You guys cramming these subs in tight areas without any ventilation are doing a great disservice to the voil coils. They get very HOT!!! The bigger the port, as per Kicker guidlines, the bigger the boom. I have engineered a box and am running one 10" L7 only, and my car can be heard for blocks away and can rattle windows over half a football field away. Do you research before dumping your money in a speaker that you think you can just wire up and drill punishing levels of audio into it without suffering the consequences!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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nofearspy121
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
11:55:00
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Chantz you seem like you know what your talking about about.
What do you think would be the best set up using kicker to run 2 12" L7's?
what model amps and subs?
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92Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
16:06:16
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Are you retarted Chantz?
Out of all the things you said, you did not get one thing correct.
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Chantz
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
00:34:10
| RE: Kicker L7's
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For the idiot named 92Dakota...I guess the shoe fit you as well when I wrote regarding inexperienced wannabes. How's that for correcting myself, huh??? Anyway, for nofearspy21, the best amp I would use to run 2 12" L7's would be a 1500 watt Rockford Fosgate, preferrable a BD1500.1. Keep in mind that this amp, although rated at 1500 RMS watts, will actually push about 1900 true US watts, so don't try to crank power to your subs right off the bat. Allow the L7's to break in as you gradually increase power over a week or two to see where your performance "MAX's OUT". As far as setup...the bigger the box, the deeper the bass, but you start to lose that kicking "PUNCH" heard in music like House music. Get the white paper from Kicker.com and use that as a guide.
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nofearspy121
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
09:39:56
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Sorry I should of been more clear..
I need to use a kicker amp also.
I was thinking using the 2ohm model subs and the 1200.1 d amp. But I don't know how to wire them to get 1 ohm.
And you said "These subs must be run straight from each coil to an amp source. Wiring the coils in parallel to get lower OHM's severely puts unbelievable strain on the coils, making them very, very hot!!! "
now Im confused again lol
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Chantz
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
10:03:25
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Ok, good question. If you already have the Kicker amp, that's fine. If you want to run two 12" L7 subs at 1 OHM, then you might want to run two 4OHM speakers in parallel. Basically, take 10 gauge speaker wire, divide into two and run a parallel wire from each connection from one coil to the other coil on each speaker. The wire will be approx. 8" long. Negative to negative, positive to positive. Then, run wire from the second coil to the connection of the other speaker in parallel. Positive to positive, negative to negative. Treat the coils on each speaker as a separate speaker (2 speakers within each sub). By the time your done, you have two 4OHM subs wired down to 2OHMS, then wired again in paralell knocking them further down to 1OHM. Run at MONO. This configuration will put more strain on you speakers, so please make sure you have a professionally designed enclosure to ensure the proper pressures will be present in the rear of the cone. Lower pressure means your box is too "loose" and causes unnecessary and excessive cone travel, making the coils work harder. Remember another thing, the shorter the wiring you can use, the greater the current. Hence, the lower the OHM simply means less current resistance, allowing more power to pass through!!!
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92Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
17:57:55
| RE: Kicker L7's
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"Wiring the coils in parallel to get lower OHM's severely puts unbelievable strain on the coils, making them very, very hot!!!"
The coils can be wired up any way. It does not make them hotter. The only way is if they are wired up in parallel and the amp you are using puts out more power at lower ohms, then yes, the coils will get hotter as a result of more power.
"If you have a dual 4OHM model, they must be run in 8,4, or 2OHM "STEREO" mode, not through a Class D mono amp. Only the 2OHM DVC model can handle the extra current."
A class D mono amp is the best choice. WTF are you talking about - "handle the extra current"? "In stereo mode only" The speaker knows no difference whether or not the amp is in stereo or mono mode.
"Third, if your running a vented box, you MUST have a subsonic filter cutting off at 35Hz."
35 hertz?? How about somewhere around 20-25 hertz? Cut it off at 35 hertz and you are getting rid of any low bass that would have existed.
"Fourth, these subs will not perform well at all in a sealed enclosure. L7's are designed to BREATHE, and must be allowed to push large amounts of air through the coils."
Kicker recommends sealed boxes as well as ported. Yes, ported will get louder. Yet many people prefer sealed for other reasons. Kicker 12" subs can go in as small as a .88 cubic foot enclosure with no problem.
"How's that for correcting myself, huh???"
Oh yeah, you're big stuff now
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Chantz
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
22:43:21
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Okay, idiot. If you don't know the difference between stereo and mono mode, then you need to keep your day job (hopefully not as an audio technician)! Running speakers at lowers Ohms automatically absorbs more power, Dummy, which in turn, pulls more power from the amp source. More power = More heat. Running in stereo as opposed to mono, means running each speaker to separate channels vs. running both speakers to one channel, hence MONO. If speakers are run in mono, then the resistance is divided, resulting in higher current = LOWER OHMS. Yes, Class D Circuitry is better suited for running lower Ohm stable, meaning amps will remain cooler under stress, but by no means is it any better for your speakers, only better for you amp. You can put a 1/4 Ohm stable MMats amp to run your subs and yes,,,it will hit harder, but apart from winning SPL and DB contests in 10 minutes, how long do you think your subs will last after using them at that power for a week while you jam to the latest CD??? It's like using an 800 HP twin turbo car w/ nitrous injection for everyday use. Competition does not equal greater performance for extended periods of time. Alot of these guys don't even know what a capacitor reservoir is, nevertheless a voltage regulator. Class D is only good for serious audiophiles. It's power is not be reckoned with. Most of these poor guys just want the best sound possible. What they don't know is how much more money they need to invest to safeguard their investment. It's like buying a $3000 computer, but not putting a $50 surge protector on it, which may one day save the life of that whole PC. Oh, and by the way, if you can hear decibels below a 32Hz. frequency, you need to call Guiness and sign up next to Superman and Lassie for extraordinary hearing powers. All Hz. below that are only good for winning first place and the nearest sound off contest, not enjoyable at all while sitting in the driver's seat...Trust me!!!!!!!! Subsonic filters prevent the sub from performing excursion below a certain frequency, meaning the cone doesn't have to do the extra traveling because your stupid ass can't hear it anyway, allowing the cone to flex back to position (occuring in a nanosecond) and thus avoiding what's called "sound discoloration"!Lastly, put an L7 in the largest recommended sealed box and then in the smallest recommended vented box. If you don't get atleast 200% the bass out of the vented box, I'll drive up to wherever you are to physically apologize to you!!! The difference I guarantee you is that GREAT. By the way, when you said that speakers don't know the difference as to how they are connected, tell that to the guys that keep sending Kicker their subs with melted coils!!!!!
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92Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
23:31:18
| RE: Kicker L7's
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"Running speakers at lowers Ohms automatically absorbs more power, Dummy, which in turn, pulls more power from the amp source. More power = More heat."
Isn't that exactly what I corrected you with...
My previous statement...The coils can be wired up any way. It does not make them hotter. The only way is if they are wired up in parallel and the amp you are using puts out more power at lower ohms, then yes, the coils will get hotter as a result of more power.
Note the similarities
"If speakers are run in mono, then the resistance is divided, resulting in higher current = LOWER OHMS."
So, now that you have amplifier headroom, you have to turn it up to full volume? If you have a class D amp, you buy it accordingly. For example you have two 4 ohm subs, wired in parallel. You may buy a Class A/B amp that puts out 200 watts per channel at 4 ohms, wiring each sub to a channel. This amp may draw 55 amps at full power.
So, you can go with a 400 watt mono amp that puts this power out at 2 ohms. Wire the subs in parallel, GET THE SAME POWER TO THE SUBS, and get the amp cheaper most likely, plus it will most likely draw less than 35-40 amps thanks to the efficiency of D class amps.
Class D is not only for serious audiophiles. It is the wave of the future for powering subs if people would realize it. I am trying to help these guys out on here too, but with good info.
Under 32 hertz...
1) "Not able to be heard"
2) "Only used for Sound-offs"
Both INCORRECT.
The human hearing spectrum ranges from 20-20,000 hertz. Download a tone generator off the Internet and see for yourself. Bass from 20-35 hertz is where it sounds good.
Cars in sound-offs rarely use bass under 32 hertz. The majority of cars in sound-offs play sudden, high power test tone burps around 45-55 hertz according to the car. This is where the highest SPL is made since the sub is moving back and forth quicker, pushing more air.
The subsonic filter needs to be set at 22-25 hertz because of what I already stated.
Yes, the ported box WILL get much louder. Approximately 3db louder or twice as loud. But many of the guys on here are looking to put boxes under their seats and other small areas. Kicker's smallest recommended ported box is over twice the size of the smallest recommended sealed box.
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Chantz
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
08:55:19
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Listen. This test of wit is no longer geared toward the main topic at hand. I'll admit, you're no dummy, but refuse to do further research. Class A/B amps are not only more flexible, but are much cheaper than a real Class D amp. You can get a cheap Class D amp, such as Audiobahn or even cheaper like Legacy, Boss or Pyramid...but it doesn't mean it's a better amp. You are correct about the amperage, that's why I mentioned people's ignorance about voltage regulators. Okay, most guys want to cram the damn sub in a little 2" crack between their seats and favorite beverage holder...that's when you have to give up on conventionality and start burning brain cells by getting creative, (ie.,deathboxes and such). I guess we have to agree that people have to come to terms with compromising SOMETHING in return for the "cramming". Compromising mostly sound and performance that is!!! So you want to fuse a 15" speaker into a space that only allows 3/4 of cubic foot air volume. Well, consultants like us ought to let this guy know that he should go with a 10" or even 8" isobaric design that will fit right in and in turn bang twice as loud, for pleasure sake (only an analogy)!!! Not everybody has a technician on their cellular speeddial list, but they count on us to get advice. Final closing arguement........(which by the way, I don't enjoy insulting people with my same goals and degree of insight)...Kicker L7 speakers are by all means a breakthrough design that can benefit the guy who doesn't have five thousand dollars to invest in a competition setup. For the price and performance, I don't think there is a speaker out there that gives better band for the buck. My experience...Only ONE 10" L7 has hit harder than TWO 12" single voice coil speakers...AND...you just don't get that from any 10" sub. It's like pulling teeth!!!
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92Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
16:23:27
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Alright bro, sorry for the arguing. I just want people to take the best route.
When I think of Class D amps, I think of the JBL Powervalve series. Unbelievable performance for an awesome price (on the Internet).
I have yet to find a class A/B amp that puts out 1400 watts RMS power for $275. I am heavily price oriented (as long as its true power) since I am not rich by any means.
Pyramid, Boss, etc is a joke. Audiobahn is just a chromed joke.
Kicker L7's are a definite breakthrough. The square actually has a purpose of increasing the SD. I have read that each size is equivalent to the next size up in round subs.
Are they the best for the money...very debatable.
So many companies...
I am about to install a 15" Cerwin Vega in a ported box soon, so I am curious to see how it stacks up. I have an extended cab and would rather have bass than backseat passengers.
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chantz
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
19:12:12
| RE: Kicker L7's
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Hah, Man, I can't believe you just wrote that! I was just preaching to some guy how PHAT my JBL BP600.1 is. Is have given me nothing but hardcore, bass pumpin' performance without a flinch. Although sometimes it zeros out when it senses a frequency it doesn't like, I love the 4-guage wire hookups and my amp NEVER gets hot. Another thing I like alot is how JBL didn't waste time adding "MAX" wattage to the unit description. It's a 600 watt amp that pushes out 600 true watts. No beating around the bush, no overexaggeration of power, no glorification of features. Just pure power! Best of all, at $399 retail, I got mine at Ubid.com for $110. You know, I was getting a weird error with mine when I first got it, it would make a horrible crackling sound when it warmed up. I did some tests and found that the amp had gotten sandwiched between one of my speaker boxes and the padding on my trunk lid. I removed the bottom (really the back) plate off and the error disappeared. Anyway, I'm glad we're on the same page!!!
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Jared
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2003
21:41:55
| RE: Kicker L7's
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I don't really know too much about this stuff. I have a '97 Explorer XLT and I was thinking about getting 1 10" SoloBaric L7 with a Kicker KX300.2 or KX400.2 amp. Would they be alright together? And should I build my own box or should I just buy one?
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2003
23:34:01
| RE: Kicker L7's
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im lookin to get 2 12" kicker l7s. im thinkin bout gettin a 600 watt class d amp mono amp for each of them. is this a good choice? how to i hook them up? and shuld i go with a ported or seald box?
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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
07:32:13
| RE: Kicker L7's
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i'd save some money and get L5's if your only gonna give them 600 wrms a piece
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
16:02:09
| RE: Kicker L7's
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well id pay the xtra to get stronger amps for for l7's, wat kind of amps do u suggest i get?
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
16:20:02
| RE: Kicker L7's
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o yea forgot to mention that i want kicker amps also
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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
19:50:45
| RE: Kicker L7's
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if you want to go w/kicker then i really don't know. Only other option would be the 1200.1 The L7's would handle this but you'll have to be careful w/the gains. How much are you wanting to spend is the more important question? I'm not sure about the 600's but you can get the 1200's for 439 from sounddomain....they are an authorized kicker dealer too if your concerned about the warranty so you'll get the full warranty in your name. Just search the net and find them for 439 and sounddomain will pricematch. Have you upgraded your electrical system yet? I'd have at least one yellow/red top for each 1200. Other than that your stock electrical system should be fine. If it dims just have your alt rewound or get a larger one. I'm pretty sure kicker is coming out w/new amps next year so you may just want to wait till then if your dead set on kicker amps. Their supposed to be quite a bit larger (more power) because their going to need a lot larger amps to power the new X series.
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2003
15:15:18
| RE: Kicker L7's
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im lookin to spend 2,500 dollars on my system, money is no problem
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2003
15:22:43
| RE: Kicker L7's
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if i werent to get kicker amps, which amps would be a perfect fit to the 12" l7s?
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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2003
17:25:33
| RE: Kicker L7's
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There's a lot of amps to choose from. Are your subs going to be in a sealed or ported box? Do you want a subsonic filter, built in fan, etc? It just depends what all you want your amp to have. Depending on whether you get the d2 or d4 subs you could look at the orion xtr2400. i had the 275g4 and it was a really good amp, it got very hot sometimes though. Let me know if you have d2 or d4 subs and tell me if you want/need something on your amp like a built in fan, filter, etc. and then i'll give you a list of a few that I like. Don't buy what I like though, you should buy whatever you like, if you like kicker amps then buy kicker amps. My next amps are probably going to be kicker. I'm going to send in 2 old 12" L7's and get 2 new 15"s next year. Are the L7's supposed to get redesigned again next year? I haven't heard but it seem slike every 2 years kicker will upgrade their current subs or come out w/new subs
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2003
18:32:14
| RE: Kicker L7's
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im new to car audio, i jus got my liscense a couple months ago, all i no is that i want to kicker l7s and i want my system to be LOUD. i jus need to no what amp wuld go best with the kickers. my box is going to be ported. i went to the kicker site and it told me that i have to have a subsonic filter for a ported box, i dotn no wat a subsonic filter is. so any information u can give me ill appreciate it
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dakota03
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2003
18:37:01
| RE: Kicker L7's
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also i was doin sum research and i read alot about OHMs, wat exactly are they?
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holtsch
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2003
21:48:13
| RE: Kicker L7's
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ohm's are basically resistors. you will need to know what ohm's your subs are in order to get the most power out of your amp. For example, if you got the kicker kx1200.1, it puts out most power at 1 ohm, so you would want to get 2 d4 subs. if you got an orion xtrpro 2400 which puts out the most power at 2 ohm's then you would want to get 2 d2's. What size boxes are you going to put them in? Kicker recommends a subsonic filter in ported boxes just to protect themselves. If you don't have a subsonic filter and you play your subs below their tuning frequency you will blow them, a subsonic filter will help protect your subs from seeing any signals below their tuning freq. Even if you do have a subsonic filter you can still blow your subs. If I were you I would get 2 d4's because you'll have more of a selection of amps to choose from. I'll give you a list of some amps most people like and you can take a look at them. kicker kx1200's, Rockford Fosgate Power 1500bd, concept 2400d (mixed feelings on this, old ones had problems, the new ones are fixed though), orion xtrpro 2400d, orion hcca 275g4, mmats d1400.1, 1400.2, dhcx 2000.1, dhv3000.2, zapco 9.0, digital designs dd9501, jbl1200.1. most of the ones i listed are kinda pricey. if you want some cheaper ones or would like more info about the amps i listed let me know. Also do you want just one or two amps for your subs, this will limit the number of amps as well
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