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kerleyfries
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2003
19:03:15
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 Subject: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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i love dodge and all, but what were they thinking of when they made the 5.9?? ill tell what they were thinking of..... they were thinking of a power plant, something that could really be a crowd pleaser, something that with small modifications would fly. boy were they wrong.
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todd
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2003
20:02:41
|  RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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they didnt make the hemi from the 4.7 ?
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2003
21:19:43
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Todd, what exactly are you saying?
TexasTodd
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/18/2003
21:44:01
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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TexasTodd. They both lost me somewhere LOL!
The 5.9 was engineered YEARS ago and was one of Chryslers best (small block) engines if you ask me.
I have personally had little mods in a 360 (5.9) that turned over 300 HP and 6000+ RPM's on stock bottom end. Of course that had diff cam, intake, 4 barrel carberated, etc.
I have a friends that run moderately built and seriously built 360's as well. They turn out some numbers as well.
My hillbilly friend has a 360 he's been working slowly on for like 6 years now. He is just now going to put it together. It's been professionally machined for racing. 2.02 stainless steel valves, 3 angle valve seats, ported, balanced bottom end with hyber-netics (whatever spelled) pistons, etc etc etc. Carberated of course. It's supposed to run 425 HP all motor. Built for 400 HP Boost (N20, blower, etc) and is garenteed 8000 RPM's easy with reliablity.
So for $3000 he's got 425 HP all motor. A few more for a 671 or whatever blower and he's got near 800 HP. Not bad!
360's can be built and built well! But that's not on our fuel injected, emmision controlled Dak's of course. It's going in his 3100 Lb Plymouth Duster. Should run 10's I'm sure even w/o the blower.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold AIr Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT to compensate for home brew intake
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FastD
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
03:19:29
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Don't get dragged into this flame fest..they are just trying to start a arguement thread just let it die! Besides everybody on here knows the 5.9 kills the 4.7.....j/k...I think they are both great engines! But, lets be honest, the new Hemi is problably the new big boy on the block. Cheers!
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
11:59:07
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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I agree... the 360 is and was a great engine. Problem is it's time (my opinion) has passed. Not to say that builing one up is a bad idea, just that it's a littled outdated to be put in brand new trucks. Hopefully the 4.7 and 5.7 hemi will get some attention and get some aftermarket parts made( like the hemi won't get attention). I went with the 4.7 on my truck for the "new" technology and savings on gas..........then i threw on a supercharger..... hahaha saving lots of gas now!!!!!!!!!!!! I hopoe they put the hemi in the dak... i've heard people on here say they have plans on it but i haven't heard anything concrete yet..... that would be worth trading mine in for......
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DAKX01
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
14:08:49
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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I got the 4.7 because i didn't feel like spending six thousand dollars more for only 15 more hp and like 30 more lbs of torque or whatever. I figured, i could get a better gas, lighter, cheaper, and take only three thousand of that six thousand that i didn't spend and put it into the truck and make it faster than an r/t. So you guys do the math, what makes more sense............... ok then, thats what i thought.
Paul
2003 clubcab, 4.7L 5spd. limited slip, leather wrap stearing wheel, and the sport plus package.
Flowmaster, coldair intake, and plenty more stuff i can add with that three thousand bucks.
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todd
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
15:07:01
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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the 5.7 and the 5.9 is the same block
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blackrtaz
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
16:22:59
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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DIE! POST DIE! WHO CARES THEY ARE BOTH MOPARS... ONES OLD, ONES NEW...GIVE IT UP THEY ARE NOT COMPARABLE!
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
17:00:17
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Actually, when they made the 360 they were thinking of a replacement for the 340 that could pass emissions testing. Some of the misinformation in this post is just amazing. First todd thinks the hemi came from the 4.7 and the next day we are supposed to believe his claim that the 5.7 & 5.9 share the same block ? 425 horse in a 3100 lb car good for tens ? Don't bet the farm on it, you'd be lucky to see 12's. And if you're building a 360 over 500 horse you'd better have a special race block, the stock blocks just won't take the kind of power GraphiteDak is talking about without coming apart. If you really want honesty, the new hemi isn't going to be "the new big boy on the block" unless it is put into lighter vehicles. When I see an RT go by my 4.7 I know it isn't stock (of course, neither am I). See you in the funny pages ! Ported 68mm TB, K&N drop in,Leach flash, HO cams
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graphitedak
GenIII
9/19/2003
17:59:24
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Razoe said about the 5.9 : "Not to say that builing one (5.9) up is a bad idea, just that it's a littled outdated to be put in brand new trucks."
That's the best response to this arguement I have heard so far!
And who says a 5.9 can't do over 500 HP? People do it with the weaker built Chevy 350 all the time and even Ford 302. Hell.
This engine, which he has and I've seen several times my self is toally built and machined for race, i.e. 1/4 mile. I may have threw in the est. 1/4 mile times in a hurry and be off, given what he runs for induction and traction modifications on his 3100 Lb car that would just do nice 1/4 mile burn outs as is (seen another friend with near 400 HP 360 do 1/4 mile burnout at Firebird raceway because he had no traction modifications on his Dodge Demon! The guy had all motor, but stock differential (open diff even!) and no slicks. He was just in a hurry to get some et's on his ride.
The 425 HP engine my friend had machined is garenteed (maybe not literally, but by design) to hold together and turn those numbers. All his parts including torque converter, harmonic balancer, etc have been temporarily put together and balanced by machinest. It wasn't a "guess" by design either. It's a known design and build up to put out those numbers.
I've run a 360 at 6K RPM's in a older RAM. Was slightly modded when I bought it to drop in to replace my 318. (.030 over, mild cam, intake, 4 barrel) I got a good deal on the block from someone who wrecked their car. My gears sucked in my truck. Had 273:1 final ratio and buried the 100 MPH speedo in 2nd gear when shifting to red line. 1st gear did 70 MPH on 904 tranny (which wouldn't hold up. Wonder why with 2.73:1 gears and over 300 HP). I got talked out of the truck before I got to change the final ratio or to the 727 tranny I had planned.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold AIr Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT to compensate for home brew intake
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slow r/t man
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
20:31:11
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Kowalski
you hit the nail on the head, sum of this information so far off its not even funny. And why does everyone villify this motor? Try pulling a trailer up a grade at 60 in a 4.7 and then try it with a 5.9 which motor is "better" now? btw I have a Duster with a 360 4.30 gears and a 3500 stall converter. It runs 12.39
3300 lbs. on pump gas. I estimate about 400 hp. the motor is VERY BASIC home ported 1989 360 heads, 292-509 cam, KB 9.5-1 pistons, RPM intake,
Holley 750, garage sale headers, MP ignition kit
I have less than 3000$ in the entire motor. It has been together for about 3 years. Please tell me how terrible these motors are again.
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2003
22:24:47
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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The 360 block's origins date back to 1955. It had a glorious history, but its time finally came. I was a little disappointed D-C chose not to make the 5.7 Hemi a 2 cammer. Some of the 5.7 Ram drivers I've talked to feel cheated by the "drive by wire" throttle response. Rear wheel horsepower of a 4.7 manual is within 5hp of a 5.9 auto. Torque is still a rush, a concept that escapes most Ricers until they get a second mortgage.
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dave wardell
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2003
00:32:17
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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I have been debating between the 4.7 and the 5.9 in a Dakota. I've heard through a dealer in my area that there has been some problems with the 4.7 - piston troubles. This kinda scares me away from this motor. At least the 5.9 is an engine that has a good rep. for durability. I am also to understsnd that this truck with the 5.9 also comes with the heavy duty auto. tranny and the 9.25 diff.In my mind that's a pretty good combo.Does the 4.7 come with the same trans. and diff. as the 5.9. I don't think so. My apologies to all I may have offended. I've never owned a Dodge, and I want the best value and bang for the buck. Thanks for listening.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/20/2003
01:17:41
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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I have the 4.7 4X4 QC.
9.25 diff. 5 speed auto. Same as in the full size truck as a matter of fact.
Pulls two quads (one a heavy polaris) on a trailer and one more quad in the bed and a family of four at 70+ MPH up every damn hill from Phoenix to Flagstaff or Phoenix to the rim (7000 ft alt)!
I probably passed some 5.9's on the way up there.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold AIr Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 180 T-Stat.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/20/2003
01:20:15
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Never heard anyone say anything about problems with the pistons on the 4.7
In fact some guy on here (Duner) runs 11's with a turbo-charged 4.7 on stock internals. I'm sure he'd let us know of any piston failure LOL!
From what I do hear, the 4.7's bottom end is practically designed for racing.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold AIr Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 180 T-Stat.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2003
07:08:27
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Hey Dave, think again. My 4.7 came with the same 9.25 differential that came with the 5.9 trucks. While the transmission is not the same, neither is it the weaker tranny that comes with the six. It is more efficient than the older model behind the 5.9 (less power loss). I tow and plow with mine with no problems. Did that dealer also warn you about potential belly pan problems with the 5.9, or is he just trying to move his gas guzzling 5.9 stock ? Like blocks, pistons are only reliable up to a certain power level. Every make or motor has an Achiles heel somewhere, bump the power up high enough and you'll find it. Good luck with whatever you choose, but please make an infomed decision.
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youngb
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2003
11:45:28
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Race block for over 500 hp in a 360 magnum??? Check out www.gsmotorsports.com guess you have to tell Scott Q to get a new block. These blocks will easily take a lot more than 500 and be reliable too.
Barry
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kerleyfries
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2003
13:48:36
|  RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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finally we have some intelligent people writing on the forums of dodgedakotas.com. im glad to see that people have been doing their research on these motors. this pleases me. all i want is to weave all the stupid people of this board that are so pig headed and racist of the new motors. new motors that are old technology. jealousy gets the best of everyone. its human nature. the truth hurts sometimes just to realize that you bought the wrong truck. i would be mad too if i spent lots of my hard earned money and was unhappy.
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todd
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2003
17:32:23
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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they only made 200 2000 dodge dakotas q.c 4x4
with the 5.9 motor.
they will be worth a lot of money one day.
it took me 6 months to get mine in.
2000 was the first year they made the truck.
and they got a late start in production.
it was hard to get a qc with a 5.9 that year.
look it up if you want.
todd,
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/20/2003
19:46:01
| RE: 4.7l vs 5.9 again
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Another point for the fool who said you couldn't get over 500 HP on a 5.9 block.
Not only have I seen people run 500+ HP on stock 5.9 blocks (stock blocks, not pistons and other internals) but I have also seen a slant six bult to the hilt that ran low 11's in a Dodge Duster.
He did not have any major suspension mods either.
You should have heard that thing run. Not your typical slant six sound. It sounded WICKED as hell!
So if they can push a slant six to run low 11's in a Duster, I think my friend with the 425+ HP 360 (5.9) should do at least that if not better after suspension mods and a blower!
I've had 302 Ford engines that put your R/T engines to shame!
In fact. The 302 has the exact same piston ring set as the 360 LOL. I've built both motors, pre-fuel injected ones. They used the same ring set.
The 302 is a 4 inch bore just like the 360 and Chevy 350. But it has only a 3 inch stroke. That's why they do high revs so well.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold AIr Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 180 T-Stat.
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