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Danny
Dodge Dakota
5/26/2001
22:32:16
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 Subject: Nitrous Question
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Message:
Installed my NX system yesterday, tried it out today. The 50 shot was plain awesome, no timing retard used, and didnt ping. So of course, I went to the 100 shot :). It didnt seem to have as much power as the 50, then BOOM, modified air cleaner explodes. No damage except for the air hat gasket (gone). Oh, and timing was retarded 3 degrees. I've had this happen with carbs when timing was off, so is it a timing issue? Went to the 75 shot, no retard. Ran much better, but again, explosion in the air hat. I'm not sure how much juice to give it??, maybe thats the prob. I have to wait until i shift to 2nd then juice it, or i sit there and spin. I started the juice at 3000 rpm, and held it strait thru until the explosions (about 100mph in a measured .25 mile). Any ideas what the prob is? I'm back to the 50 shot, no retard.
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Blizzard
Gen III
 
5/26/2001
22:38:39
|  RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
If I took a 100 hit of nitrous I'd be retarded too!
hehehe...okay...just a little humor. very little.
Dunno Danny. Never touched the stuff. Good luck!
'01 QC 4x4
5.9L, 3.92 LSD, loaded
www.geocities.com/blizzzzard69
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andrew
Dodge Dakota
5/27/2001
00:02:25
| RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
I dont know if it is the medication or what Blizzard, but I just spent the last minute and a half laughing my ass off. Caught me off gaurd.
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Danny
Dodge Dakota
5/27/2001
22:06:33
| RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
No ideas on what the deal is? 50 shot works fine, but 100 would be nice. Blowing my hood off isnt worth the extra 50hp tho.
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/29/2001
23:54:16
|  RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
hey danny,
did you figure out your nitrous mystery yet? i am asking because i ordered the same kit for my 97 5.2 5 speed. i am a little worried about installing it now. thanks in advance!
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Dan Ingler
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
00:49:16
| RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
Are you running a stock ignition? The MSD Digital 6 has a two stage retard and a two stage rev limiter. That will help you dial in for the 75 or 100 shot.
Dan
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SpeedTweaks
Dakota Enthusiast
5/30/2001
13:01:10
| RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
Danny,
Two things to check right off the bat:
(1) Is the fuel solenoid working properly?
(2) What temp was the bottle at?
As for the timing retard, install one before you destroy the engine with the 100HP shot. We ran the NX 50/75/100 shot on our truck (before the Supercharger) and the 75HP works the best for the street (100HP works best for the track). Make sure you ruin at least one grade higher on the fuel and one range colder ont he plugs as well (and gap them .002-.005" smaller for the nitrous).
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
15:21:06
| RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
just got off of the phone with john stewart(AKA nitrous god) he said that the problem w/ your truck was eather you have platnum plugs in your truck, your plugs are gapped wrong, you dont have a bottle warmer, or that you tried to retard your timing. he said that " YOU MOST DEFINITLY DO NOT NEED TO RETARD YOUR TIMING!!" this goes OLNY for the nitrous express kit! just thought id try to help you out a little. if you would like to call john his number is (713)-898-1795
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
16:44:03
| RE: Nitrous Question
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Message:
I installed a NX kit on my 92 5.2 last week. I have the MSD 6AL (was a gift, would have bought the 6A), copper autolite 3923's gapped at .045, a mopar performance PCM (i know...), and no timing retard. Runs great with 50/75/100 shots. Didnt try anything more, and wont. When you see what even just 50 will do, you will be amazed. Major traction problems tho. Cant hit the juice until 2nd or just spin. Danny, your lucky it wasnt the plate type nitrous kit or that would have been your manifold blowing off. What year is your truck? Guessing 5.2? Call the number on that card you got with the kit. They are a big help.
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
15.118/89.27 (before nitrous)
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Bernd
Gen III
5/30/2001
21:40:35
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
You don't need to retard your timing? YEAH...RIGHT!! I ran the NX kit and got the same answer from John (in person at the Houston Race/Show). It pinged, bucked, and ran like crap under the "juice". After setting my timing retard to -2 degree retard, no mroe problems.
Check your fuel solenoid, connections, and make sure the bottle is at a minimum of 75 degrees temp.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
21:47:33
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
I've used it 4 times, 50, 75, 100, 100...runs great. Not sure how I can prove that one tho, and not sure why anyone, including myself, would lie about it. Maybe a "race cam" Sunday?
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
15.118/89.27 (before nitrous)
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
21:57:31
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
BTW, Bernd, noticed you took "w/Nitrous" off your signature block. You not running it anymore? Guessing 10# boost would be plenty, but if your not, why did you stop using it?
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
15.118/89.27 (before nitrous)
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:11:50
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:12:19
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:12:47
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:13:30
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:14:01
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:14:54
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:15:53
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just wondering bernd, why is it that you recommended to talk to john stewart in other posts now you are telling us that his info is inaccurate? maybe you are confused. or is it that johns info is only good on v-8 dakota's!!! let us all know wanna-be "NITROUS GOD"
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:20:32
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
sorry so many posts i just got a little button happy!!
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:42:26
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Wow, thats alot of posts! Anyway, I think you may be right about the "only on V8" part. The NX kit for the V6 only lists 35, 50, and 75hp shots, and the 50 and 75 shots use the same jets as the 5.2('92-'95) and 5.9 ('93-'00). I would guess that is why the V6 is pinging. Any other NX kits on V8's that can confirm?
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
15.118/89.27 (before nitrous)
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
22:50:20
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Oops, before I get blasted, let me correct. Its the same jets as the 93-95 5.2 50 shot and 96-00 4.7, 5.2, and 5.9 75 shot. More juice per cylinder on V6. Also, there has to be a reason the 100 and 150 shots are not listed for a V6, right?
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
15.118/89.27 (before nitrous)
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Bernd
Gen III
5/31/2001
08:56:32
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
I recommend John since he is the most honest and least expensive (also willing to talk your ear off).
The NX kit for the V6 is 50/75/100. You can also run a 125HP shot on the V6 but does require better fuel and 4 degrees timing retard.
As for the V8 and V6 kits, yes...there is a difference on the jetting but the safety factor behind the timing retard is the same. Anything with 100HP or above, you should pull at least 2 degrees as a safety factor for the daily driver and weekend strip vehicle.
As for the "Nitrous God" comment...no one is a "God" when it comes down it Nitrous or any other modification. It's just personal experience with the NX kit...and not just on a V6 either. (And i'm not the one blowing my airhat off...never have.) ;)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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Bernd
Gen III
5/31/2001
09:05:17
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeff,
I took the nitrous off of the truck since the bottom end doesn't have any "beef up" work done to it...yet. And yes, the 10# boost is more than plenty for now. ;)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
5/31/2001
16:53:17
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey Bernd,
I was saying that there is NOT a difference on jetting. Exactly the same jets for the V6 for 50 and 75 shots. And the V6 kits are 35/50/75, V8 kits are 50/75/100/150 (according to the jetting chart that I got with the kit). Nothing over 75 for V6 listed. NX number is 904-767-7694. If anyone has any questions, they should ask NX direct, not the almighty nitrous king/god/guru/dude. BTW, going to track tonight, will post numbers when I get back.
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
15.118/89.27 (before nitrous)
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
5/31/2001
17:12:13
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
bernd,
you said that john is the most honest one to talk to. why would you say the exact opposit? i think he has a very experienced background dealing with nitrous for over 20 years. i do agree about him talking your ear off though!!
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Bernd
Gen III
5/31/2001
19:53:59
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeff: My NX card came with the jetting for the 50/75/100 shot for the V6.
V6 Jetting: (N20/Fuel)
50HP = 35/20
75HP = 41/24
100HP = 52/33
125HP = 57/36 (Tested at the track with 4 degree retard - no pinging with Super Unleaded)
Quote from John's Website:
"Our nitrous systems are so advanced (technology, engineering and workmanship), that huge amounts of "timing retard" is not required. You may run as much timing as you normally would, if you have the octane required to prevent detonation. WARNING: Retarded timing in an internal combustion engine causes increased cylinder temperatures, engine over-heating and an over rich fuel condition. These actions, singly or together, can cause head gasket failure, spark plug damage, crushed ring lands, bearing damage and other numerous engine horrors!"
This is 100% correct but note the octane comment. Also, massive amounts of retard are not 2-3 degrees...i've seen people running 6-8 degrees and blew their engines. The Dodge timing curves run quickly from 8-10 degrees BTDC to 40-45 degrees BTDC. Under WOT, they can still hit 25-30 degrees BTDC at higher RPM's. As for the higher cylinder pressures with retarded timing, correct but then add the higher cylinder pressure with the nitrous and you get a lot more than with just retarded timing.
"...not the almighty nitrous king/god/guru/dude"...flattery will get you no where. ;)
Kevin: He is the most honest and will tell you the facts straight up. I don't have anything against John, have anything bad to say about him (never have), and have run up my cellphone bill with him several times last year.
As for the timing retard and why...no engine is the same and can ping with the 100HP shot. If you run the proper plugs, 180 t'stat, proper fuel, and proper jetting...you should be fine. But...be prepared because not all pinging can be heard by the human ear. (The Dodge PCM's...especially automatics...try to force Closed Loop from the 3-4 shift...this can bring the timing back up to about 38-40 degrees BTDC at higher rpm...just think what that'll do with nitrous.)
I've run nitrous (and installed the "good old days" nitrous systems) since 1989 and have seen good and bad experiences with them. I also ran a 200HP shot on my old Camaro for a few months before having to sell (divorce ruins your pocket book). I'm no "guru" and anyone who thinks they are is sadly mistaken. There's always room to learn and there's always someone out there with more experience.
Be careful with Nitrous...it's something to be respected and not played around with. (I've had a fuel solenoid stick as well as a nitrous solenoid stick...no damage but caught it in time to shut her down.)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
6/01/2001
00:03:39
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Ok, first let me start with: "...not the almighty nitrous king/god/guru/dude"...flattery will get you no where. ;)
Didn't mean it towards you Bernd or to single anyone out. What I meant was, talk to NX directly, don't listen to people that appear to know what they are doing. As you said, all engines are not the same, and all nitrous kits are different. Also, Bernd, your jets are different than what is listed now. Guess they changed the kit.
Now that that is clarified.... Man, what a night at the track. Had a blast, even with all the traction problems. The 100hp shot was ridiculous. Spun every time I hit the button, no matter how fast. Traction bars didn't help, so my only chance is to go with slicks. The 100 shot spun so bad, went strait to the 50. Still had major traction problems through first. Had to "tap" the trigger thru 1st gear, then it was fine from 2nd on. Killed my times though. Didn't matter because was cool to see the 3 different mustangs (5.0's) I raced leave me at the line, then pass them like they were standing still at the end. Wish I could have seen them with the WTF expression on their faces. My buddies in the stands said everyone was amazed after my first mustang race. Said the announcer was talking about it even after the race after mine. It took about 5 runs before I got the feel for it. The tapping it in 1st really helped. Then, on the way home, a 4.6l mustang decided to give it a try on the highway. This amazed me because I have never been that lucky to have someone come up and mess with me like that, its usually me that has to start sh1t. That chalk is staying on for a few days! My time wasnt on the window because it was test and tune night. Anyway, I was doing around 75 when he flew up to me and slowed even with me. I reached over, turned on the juice, and slowed to about 50. He also slowed, then gunned it when we were even. You should have seen his buddy. He kept looking at my truck, then looking at the speed, then me, then the dude driving. It was funny. I let off about 90, and I was WAY ahead and still pullin away. Anyway, as you can tell, I had a blast tonight.
Here are my times, using the 50hp shot. As you can see, I had to start SLOW. The 1/8th mile times and were actually worse than what I ran without NX. Good tires are going to help that, so I'm not worried about it. Only loss of the night was to a 5.0 (I got him later) which beat me by .003. If anyone wants to see the slips, let me know.
Reaction +.314
60ft 2.443
330ft 6.442
ET@594ft 8.976
1/8 ET 9.544
1/8 MPH 79.21
1/4 ET 14.465
1/4 MPH 99.81
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
14.465/99.81
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Bernd
Gen III
6/01/2001
01:08:35
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Looks like the nitrous is working for ya Jeff.
A little over 6/10th's improvement...congrats. Now...repeat after me: "Need More Nitrous". (The bug will get ya too.) ;)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
6/01/2001
01:43:57
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey your NOS story has me drowling Jeff. Anyone done NOS on a 4.7 5 speed yet. Have kicked the idea around. 75 shot max. My friend says that it would burn my engine out but I am sure it can easily handle 75 shot with out to much strain. I don't know dick about NOS. Can it be removed easily with out any trace if I had it on my truck? Can I even do it on my 4.7?
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
6/01/2001
15:23:20
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeffster, the kit would be simple to remove without a trace, because its just a round spacer that fits between your throttle body and air hat. If its your warranty you are worried about, I don't think removing it will help. IF something were to happen to your engine, which I know it will because I can see you trying 50hp then going strait to a 500hp shot :), the damage will be REAL hard to explain to the dealer anyway. They will know immediately what happened. Follow the directions exactly (what little there are) and you should not have any problems. As for the kits, the NX kit is the closest to the claimed HP increase, usually a bit more than claimed. If you have any questions about it, email me, will be glad to help. I'm not a nitrous god though. Going mustang hunting tonight!
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
14.465/99.81
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
6/01/2001
19:33:34
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Good luck killing some stangs. Sure is fun to do. Becarefull some are as fast as hell but even losing is fun if you can make it real close. My Dak in just a few weeks has humbled many vehicles. Don't worry I only sound crazy and won't go for a 500 hp shot LOL.
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Bernd
Gen III
6/01/2001
22:54:34
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Round spacer???? What kit do you have?
The normal EFI kit from NX has a nozzle with it.
As for the 4.7L, it can be done but at a risk to the pistons. (Cast and the top ring location is a problem as well.)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
6/02/2001
03:29:55
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
just recieved my NX kit today. i was wondering about the "spacer" also? the shark nozzle was included with mine. i have a 97' 5.2L 5speed, sure-grip rear end and all the goodies to go with it. let me know if i am dealing with the right NX kit.
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
6/02/2001
16:13:34
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Mine came with 2 nozzles that you put into a spacer that fits between your airhat and throttle body. Maybe for the old style airhat? If you didn't get a spacer, where do you put yours?
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
14.465/99.81
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
6/02/2001
17:32:18
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey Kevin, I noticed that you said nozzle. I have a 5.2 also, and I got 2 nozzles in my kit (for a 92). Would that mean that I am actually running 100hp with my 50 shot? The jetting is almost the same for our 5.2, mine being 35F/20N for 50, yours should be 35/18 right? But I'm running 2 35/20 nozzles. If it is double, or close, that would explain the 100 shot spinning everytime I touched it. Guess I'll call and ask about it Monday.
92 RC Sport 5.2 3.55 Auto
Mod'ed TB and intake, Flowmasters, 180 thermostat,
MOPAR PCM, MSD 6AL, NX
14.465/99.81
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
6/02/2001
18:25:58
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
jeff.
yes that is correct i did only receive 1 nozzel. the mouting location is in the intake tube. 2-6 inches from the throttle body. (i also have the mopar performance intake.) so i had to drill a 9/16 hole to fit the threaded adapter to accept the nozzel. i would think that you are doubling the horsepower with 2 nozzels each having the same jet settings for 50, or 100 HP. the jet sheet for my year and yours is very close for HP ratings. now you have me wondering if my dakota can handle a 200HP shot! just kidding. that sure explains your killer wheel spin at the track!
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kevin
Dodge Dakota
6/02/2001
18:26:37
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
jeff.
yes that is correct i did only receive 1 nozzel. the mouting location is in the intake tube. 2-6 inches from the throttle body. (i also have the mopar performance intake.) so i had to drill a 9/16 hole to fit the threaded adapter to accept the nozzel. i would think that you are doubling the horsepower with 2 nozzels each having the same jet settings for 50, or 100 HP. the jet sheet for my year and yours is very close for HP ratings. now you have me wondering if my dakota can handle a 200HP shot! just kidding. that sure explains your killer wheel spin at the track!
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Bernd
Gen III
6/02/2001
20:31:50
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
That explains the spacer...Gen-II vs. Gen-III intake system. (Didn't catch that one right away.)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#
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White
Dodge Dakota
6/03/2001
21:52:14
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Just wondering yall say be careful of the pistons on a 4.7 because there cast . but other than the high rings what makes them different than 5.2 3.9 & the 5.9 pistons?
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White
Dodge Dakota
6/03/2001
21:54:02
| RE: Nitrous Question
IP: Logged
Message:
Just wondering yall say be careful of the pistons on a 4.7 because there cast . but other than the high rings what makes them different than 5.2 3.9 & the 5.9 pistons?
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