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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/01/2003
16:10:25
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 Subject: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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I'm tired of hearing everyone bitch about how the 4.7 after market is taking so long and why we can't go fast and blahblahblah.....
And since everyone seems scared to go out and install some parts on their truck because every part that you install will "lose low-end torque" I am going to post a very generic how-to on 4.7 motors.
The following steps (and their order of installation) will give you more horsepower and torque than what came from the factory:
1. Get your PCM flashed by ASE, KB, or Leach (2000 and older trucks). Do a search for contact info.
2. Get some cams. HO Jeep cams, KRC 206 cams, KRC 218 cams, Elite Customs EHO cams... whatever. Get a set and drop them in. It takes 4-5 hours.
3. Get a bigger throttlebody and a better air filter set-up. Whether you port your stocker TB or get a huge-errific model from F&B or Fastman. Whether you buy a K&N drop-in or a $$$ Z-Tube, doesn't matter. Just get more air IN the motor.
4. Get the exhaust system enlarged to a single 3" pipe from the end of the y-pipe all the way back. That includes the 3" cat and a 3" muffler. Doesn't matter on brand names or noise levels. Just get more air OUT of the motor.
5. After those steps, then you can start looking at stuff like the HO intake manifold, removing the clutch fan, short belt for the track only, whatever.
That's pretty much the basics. Those first four things will act oddly if they are installed in separate steps, but once you have all of it in place, your truck will haul a$$ compared to factory stock. If you are worried about losing low end torque and all that BS, look at the dyno graph at this link:
http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/0F64H9L1P5IL.html
I don't have the FMS 21# injectors any more. Other than that, that's all I got.. I don't know how much torque you need for bottom end, but starting at about 1800 rpm, I've got tire smoking torque. And that's not a figure of speech.
Anyone else that asks how to hop-up a 4.7, send them this link.
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D
GenIII
3/01/2003
19:37:46
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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you forgot about the stickers!
2003 WRX
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2003
19:46:37
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Oh yeah.... I forgot to add that to my mods.
1 NHRA 4" Oval sticker
1 4" American Flag Sticker.
Both in driver's side of rear window.
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2003
21:55:32
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Hummm...
That sounds familiar, somebody we know?hehehe
Don't forget to strap on your HELMET.
I'm glad you made this list Alex, cause I forget sometimes.
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
3/02/2003
10:44:53
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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And for mods that don't work at all...
A buddy and I wanted to see if the bucket seats and console from his QC would swap with my 60/40 bench and cupholders. Everything would fit, but the damn rails between the two seat were different. I wonder if it's b/c he has a quadcab, or if it's b/c his truck is a 2001 and mine is a 2002. Sucked to tear it all apart only to find that it doesn't fit (just barely too).
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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cudashoe
DakotaEnthusiast
3/02/2003
17:51:36
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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alex's post is very true if you are only interested in going in a strait line.
If you want to make your truck into a Porsche hunter, then get the FULL Hotchkis suspension, along with a rear disk brakes conversion. Going 14 sec in the quarter is fun, but it doesnt get the adremaline flowing like takeing a 90 degree turn at 80 mph+.
2000 4.7 5- speed, 1989 Shelby #799 White
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2003
18:15:38
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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The above listed mods will get you to that 90 degree turn a hell of a lot faster...
Shesh!
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cudashoe
DakotaEnthusiast
3/02/2003
18:30:59
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Nobody disputed what he said. Dont get your panties in a bunch.
Any idiot can go fast in a strait line. But a true performance driver can make it go fast on any paved road surface. Yea its a big deal when you beat that Honda from a stop light, but when you pass a Corvette on a 2 lane curvy road, THATS A RUSH!
I may not have the fastest quarter mile truck on here, but I might have the fastest raod course truck.
2000 4.7 5- speed, 1989 Shelby #799 White
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/03/2003
10:20:08
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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The post was about hopping up the 4.7L engine with available aftermarket parts.
I didn't say anything about suspensions or racing.
Or panties.
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xplikt
GenIII
3/03/2003
10:30:44
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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cudashoe, with a change of tires, I'd like to test that.
However, driver skill plays and even larger role on road courses. It would be driver more than truck. You know that!
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out | straight piped 3rd cat | turndown tip
Full Hotchkis (bars, springs, shocks) and RAS
Shaved emblems and antennae
150BM fan | removed clutch | HD Radiator
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2003
11:29:31
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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alex,
Please tell me that dyno was WITHOUT the HO intake.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2003
12:09:15
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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The big thing holding me up (other than cash because of some company shutdowns where I work) is parts with CARB EO numbers. Being in California, I'm guarenteed to get nailed on smog checks.
What parts are available with them? Other than the K&N and Jeep HO parts.
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cudashoe
DakotaEnthusiast
3/03/2003
12:36:02
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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I was refereing to PERFORMANCE. I guess its means more to me than punching the gas pedal.
xplicit - You know what I'm talking about dont you! you should try a Car guys event. http://www.carguys.com/
I have run a couple. Its a blast!!! Nice to go fast longer than 14 seconds. I agree with the tire change, but I am happy with the Goodyear LSs.
2000 4.7 5- speed, 1989 Shelby #799 White
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/03/2003
13:02:05
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Well, I was talking about how to make the engine make more power. Not the truck, not the suspension, not the trans. Just the engine. The only thing you can do in that instance is turn it on, punch the gas, and turn it off. Either that or it's just a big paper weight. Once you install the mods I listed, it's up to you which way you turn the steering wheel and pull the gear selector.
As for the dyno graph, that was with the HO intake and injectors that were too big along with a computer flash that was waaay off in the first place. I wouldn't pay any attention to what happens after 3500 rpm on that graph.
I will have a much better looking graph shortly, but in the meantime, here's a graph that shows a little improvement. This is with the computer reflashed so that it's not so rich on the top end. There's still work to be done to eliminate the dip in power from 4500-5000, and this is still 20% too rich, but it's gettign there. Don't be fooled by the lower hp numbers. The weather was different that day, and the correction factor cost me power. But that set of curves that's lower and only winds to 5500 is the same curve that I have posted on dragtruk. This has them both run through the same correction factor.
http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=3937&size=big
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2003
16:17:04
|  RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Thanks .alex.,
I was told of the it will pull to about 6grand with the cams and intake. I'll be doing the HO intake soon. Already have the cams and other minor mods.
Todd Bouton
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2003
17:05:14
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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It's making good useable power til about 5500, but apparently the 4.7 PCM's aren't mapped with information beyond 5500 rpm. I'm not sure if that's true, but that's what I've read.
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
3/03/2003
19:08:36
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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I think it's true alex, b/c when I try to manually shift at 6K, if fukkin has nothing, and I mean nothing at all left. Too bad as I know the cams, intake, and TB help it out with power in that range.
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/03/2003
23:25:36
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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I think 1 and 2 on the list is all that really did much. H.o. Cams dyno proven for 15 hp, computer flash good for another dyno proven 20-30hp (20 on ase and 30 on kennebell). Stock dyno for 5-speed 4.7, ~200. Figure conservatively for the flash 20hp and 15 for the h.o. parts, and you're right at around 233 that Alex dynoed at. Thus, 3, 4, and 5 are a waste.
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yates-in-DE
*GenIII*
3/03/2003
23:38:11
|  RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Kenne Bell Optimizer II Proven 10 hp for the 4.7L by Kenne Bell, HO Cams Proven 13 HP by Marty at KRC Performance, now lets see 10 + 13 = 23. Now Alex got about 33 hp from his Mods and lets subtract the 23 from the 33, so 33 - 23 = 10, that means the intake and exhaust made 10 more Ponies, I don't see a waste there. Now these last 2-10 hp mods will really shine when you put some forced air into it.
And the ASE Flash 6 hp gain proven.
Damn I need your bean counter, it's just to bad Hypothetical Hp or Mythological HP doesn't move Mass.
Later,
Lynn
 Clic the pic
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
02:12:23
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Lynn...what are you talking about buddy? The 30hp was from several of your posts, thats what I was referring to. Was your dyno messed up out their in Germany or what? Did you re dyno and find out some new numbers? You should have said I recall several posts you claim approx. a 30hp gain, whats up man?
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yates-in-DE
*GenIII*
3/04/2003
09:18:25
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Yeah, I said about 27 hp (Kilo Watt to hp conversions coming off the German Dyno and each Kilowatt = 1.341 hp which could mean as many as 4+ hp difference from base pull to final pull), but i will say again I had added the Exhaust and the Intake along with the Kenne Bell (and reread my posts you will find that) and at the time didn't think they made that much difference. And something Else the Germans Don't do is a Sea Level Correction as we do in the USA. My base pull was at about 3300 ft with 790 miles on truck @ 146 KW and my final pull was at 900 ft with 4855 miles on truck @ 166 KW.
I will say that I think more Like 15 from the Kenne Bell. But I'm going to Say that on Kenne Bell's Site they say only 10 from the Optimizer II. Sorry if all this is confusing, but my main point was that the intake and exhaust do have some increases and will help even more as other things like heads, and forced air induction are produced at better prices for these trucks.
Later,
Lynn
Clic the pic
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
09:46:42
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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yeah, horespower numbers, etc....
How much torque is everyone making? Mine's making 308 at the rear wheels, and that was with a crappy air/fuel tune from the PCM.....
Maybe they weren't a waste?
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
10:39:17
|  RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Getting rid of the rotating mass, and small amount of resistence from removinf the belt driven viscous clutch/fan makes a few ponies, sure wraps out a little smoother. Note, I said a few ponies, and tq too.
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
11:12:36
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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According to Duner, the short belt that misses the power steering and alternator is worth 17-20 hp..... guess the PCM flash ins't even worth it, then, is it?
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
11:39:01
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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You guys keep debating, I'm working on a turbo-sprocket for my drive-shaft.
Don't forget cleanliness. I wax my truck to make it go a little faster.
It's hard to keep up with seriousness in this post. Alex, is what Duner said true? I would have guessed 5-8HP on the short belt, and of course more with the removal of the clutch fan.
I need to get the yarn out, and measure for a short belt on mine. Need all the extra horsies I can get.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
11:50:21
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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"I wax my truck to make it go a little faster. "
...you do know that some racing teams DO wax thier cars to make for a bit less wind resistance.
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lacent
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
11:58:20
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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you guys with the KB SC, i'm thinking of one on my 4.7, anyone dyno before and after? or has anyone even just dyno'ed with one? if it makes 70-100hp and tq i'll buy one ;0)
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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3/04/2003
12:08:11
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Notchlx has a Paxton that made about 100HP, right?
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/04/2003
13:02:37
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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I wasn't kidding about what Duner said. But I dont' think I saw that kind of improvement on the dyno. Apparently the alternator saps about 5 hp and the p/s pump takes about another 17 hp. That's a total of 22 hp that you are getting back for free.
But I've never done a confirmation test. I can tell you that with teh short belt in place, it revs like a mofo, and that it breaks the tires loose a LOT quicker than with the belt in place.
Here's a link to a diagram AND the correct part # for the 4.7 motor (read the photo caption):
http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=3933
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
3/04/2003
13:46:49
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Paxton monster! I'd like to have that setup. I'm STILL struggling between going turbo or supercharged. I like the overall ability of the turbo, but the ease of the S/C. Damn fine dilemma to be in, if I may say so...
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/04/2003
14:21:03
| RE: How-To on 4.7 Performance
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Justin... I'm heading to the track Fridya nite if the weather's clear.... see you there?
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