| From | Message |
paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
00:26:35
|
 Subject: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
OK. Tax time is coming and soon I hope to be able to trade one of my cars (which I am upside down on) in for a Dakota early next year.
Here is my ultimate question. Next generation 4.7 or the allmighty tried and true 5.9?
I have had 360's before and they are long running awesome engines. My last one was in a '86 RAM. It was simple. A .030 over 360 with aluminum intake, 4 barrel and a descent camshaft. It shredded the tires right off that pig but also sucked a crap load of fuel! Plus I assume the old 904 tranny was a piece of junk compared to the new 5 speed.
Now. After reading and posting on this board for a few months I still have not decided which engine I will choose!!!! I actually see some posts about onging problems with the new 4.7. Also keep in mind I do intend to do performance mods to this truck. I know the 4.7 has almost the same power as the stock 5.9 and better gas mileage. But, with mods to the 5.9 I imagine I should have a lot more potential and maybe improve mileage as long as I keep my lead foot off of it occasionally.
So. Let's hear it. I will probably base part of my decision on your replies.
|
j
GenIII
12/23/2002
10:00:00
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
I don't want to get the 4.7 vs 5.9 argument rolling again. Get a Ram 1500 RC with the 5.7.
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c.
|
Duner
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
10:35:42
|  5.9
IP: Logged
Message:
Get the 5.9
I need people to beat with my 4.7
|
midnightdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
10:50:41
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
OH NO HERE WE GO AGAIN,i agree with J try the ram with the 5.7.
|
MikeD
*R/T*
12/23/2002
13:18:31
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
If you want the 5.7 expect to do alot of tuning to that engine cuz of the new drive-by-wire system that pretty much stops you from shredding the tires w/ the new Hemi.
I'd get an R/T...cuz trust me, the looks & compliments you'll get in it alone are worth it. At least they were for me. And mods are readily available and super easy to find.
~Mike~
Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon
|
b1llyw
DakotaEnthusiast
12/23/2002
14:16:54
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
I got the 4.7 on my '02 because you can't get the 360 with a 5 speed. I like the 4.7 a lot. It could use a little more steam with my 4500 lb quad cab and I definitely wouldn't want the 4.7 with an auto tranny. You need the 5 speed to wind it out effectively and get to your power.
If I was going with an auto tranny, and had to choose between the 4.7 and 5.9, I'd get the 5.9 all day long. Torque is king.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92 9.25, 1995 Dakota CC, 4x2, SLT, 318, 5 spd, 3.55 8.25
|
midnightdak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
17:26:32
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
WELL GET READY GUYS HERE WE GO AGIAN,DON'T YA'LL JUST LOVE THESE ARGUMENTS...LOL...if i had it to do all over agian sense i'm 21 and insurance is killing me with my wreak and all and being a 2001 dakota cc 4.7 gas is also killing me on the way to work and back,I'd get a 4 banger cause i have 2 other rides one 67 chevy p/k with 350 and 67 chevelle ss with 468 blown metanol/nitrious burner 400 shot so i really could use some cheaper gas mileage and insurance for my truck that gets me to work and back.So if you don't have an atleast 1 old hotrod get a 5.9 an make that fast,but where i live old hotrods get way more attention and a$$ than my new 2001 cc dakota 4.7,with wheels,4 15's 1600 watt amp will EVER GET.So if you want speed get something older.-my 2 cents-
|
dkota_rt
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
19:48:36
|  RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
I have both, a 2002 Quad Cab 4x4 4.7L and a 2003
5.9 Regular Cab R/T. I love both for their respective advantages. The 4.7 revs well and is plenty of power for 90% of the people. I use it for the family/ towing / offroading /and traveling.
The R/T is lot more fun to drive for local travelling and commutes. The 5.9 engine has more torque and I am sure it will beat the 4.7, but not by much.
Your choice has be based on your use. I wanted both for different reasons. Thank god I sold my wife on the idea, as we need 2 cars anyway. The 2 Dakotas are perfect for our lifestyles.
I think overall, the 4.7l is the best all around bang for the buck truck you can get. If you see yourself having fun with modifying the engine/racing/and seeking the better high performance option, then go for the 5.9l.
Out of the box, left to be stock, and all other things considered (like gas mileage)then the 4.7 still comes out as the #1 choice.
If performance is the only consideration, then by all means buy the 5.9l.(torque-remember "There is NO replacement for displacement")
I hope my perspective helped you out a little. If you struggled with this dilema as much as I did then convince the wife/girlfriend/or significant other to buy
one of each and share the rides!!!!!
|
paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
22:55:50
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
OK. The last few posts are starting to get somewhere.
So a little more info for ya.
Everything we have has to be 4 door. Two kids. So Quad cab it is. We don't want the bigger Ram so the 5.7 is out plus it's so new I couldn't mod it much and I really intend to keep this truck and mod the hell out of it, slowly anyway.
Another thing. My car is a 5 speed stick. Hers (the Chrysler) is an auto. We are trading my newer car in for the truck. She insists I get an auto (damnit!) so she can drive this one. So I guess I'll suffer with the newer 5 speed auto that you now get.
So, as it stands I WAS thinking along the lines of the 4.7. Stock to stock it is better I think. But, I could mod the tried and true single cam 5.9 and get a hell of a lot more HP and torque!!! So as of now I am thinking of the 5.9.
Especially after seeing some reported problems with the 4.7. Another mod is that i WILL be adding a super charger within a few years of owning it. If I can get the fuel injected 5.9 to have anything near what my old 4 barrel 5.9 was, I'd be pretty happy. My 5700 Lb 1/2 ton Dodge would shred the tires and it had sh!ty 273:1 gears that I never got a chance to change!!! That old truck would kill your stock Dakota's. But it was also cheaper to build back then and I had no emmisions there. I do now tho here in Phoenix!
|
jjj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/23/2002
23:49:01
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
Drive both if possible, I have the 5.9 QC and wouldn't go to the 4.7. My dad has the 4.7 and complains it shifts too much but likes it overall. If towing the 5.9 is the only real option as gas mileage is close to the same in real life.
You won't smoke the tires with the 5.9 due to torque management, but that is just a flash away.
The QC is a heavy truck mine weighed in at 5000 lbs.
Jeff
|
afi360
*R/T*
12/24/2002
03:05:43
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
ooooh if that were anyone but duner, there would be challenges flying...
*shakes fist at empty wallet*
hopefully ill see you in the twelves.
anyway, if gas mileage is ANY concern, you know the answer... i couldnt be happier with the r/t though.
**in shadows growing wings**
|
paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/24/2002
16:01:11
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
Great replies. Good thing I didn't jst go out and buy one because I was thinking the 4.7 but have been changing my mind. Also, I drive from Phoenix to the high country a lot. And I would hate a small v8 that has to drop gears all the time.
One last thing. I assume there is a lot more mods for the 5.9? Plus I've been around the 360's for years and I know how good they can run.
|
ZZ
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/24/2002
16:07:37
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
If you plan to tow a heavy trailer, get the 5.9. Otherwise, go with the 4.7. My wife has a 4.7 in her 99 Grand Cherokee - 62,000 miles and no problems.
|
BigRedDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/24/2002
16:54:40
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
but you're getting an auto, and plan on modding the hell out of it in the future.... so I'd recommened the 5.9
This is coming from a perfectly satisfied 4.7 owner as well.
|
you loser
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/24/2002
18:09:09
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
you cannot tow with the 5.9 dumbsh!t.
|
sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/24/2002
20:13:30
|  RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
You know I would like more Cubic Inches but I am very pleased with the 4.7L . You would have to reduce the price buy $3000-$4000 dollars to get me to take a 5.9. I have never been very pleased with the 5.2 or 5.9. The 5.9 is prone to blowing head gaskets and every other gasket on the thing as well. It also has an oiling system that was designed by an total moron. The 5.9 has had hundreds of TSB's for gasket leaks, over heating and oil pump failures for over 40 years. Go to alldata and look at the 5.9 track record for the last 15 years!! The 4.7 on the other hand has not had a single TSB yet in the Dakota relateing to the engine mechanicals. I would rather have a bit less power and an engine that does not leak, burn oil, over heat and blow head gaskets. If you want a stick shift you have to get a 4.7 as well. The 4.7 and 45RFE in the 2001 Dak was the combo that finaly got me to buy American. I will admit that if you like to modify then the 5.9 is the way to go. If I had to have more power then the 4.7 can make I would buy a Ram with the 5.7 or the Cummins. The 4.7 will do everything that the Dak is rated to do. Another way to look at it is that it is that the 4.7 and 45RFE have enough guts to move a 1/2 ton fulsize Ram Quadcab around it should do just fine for a Dak. I am perdicting that the new 3.7V6 and 4.7V8 will become legends for durability in the DC product line.
|
ZZ
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/24/2002
22:41:20
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
My dad used to tow with his 1976 Chrysler Cordoba with a 360. If a 360 could tow in '76, it can still tow in '02.
|
Fred
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/25/2002
04:53:44
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
the 360 CAN tow, but the RT with the 360 CAN NOT. the rt's towing capabilities are not up to par. that is what the other guy meant
|
you losers
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/25/2002
17:34:48
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
we was all talking about whats better between the dakotas 4.7 or 5.9 and he said the 5.9 can tow but the 5.9 dakota cannot you dumbsh!ts.
|
jjj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/26/2002
00:16:58
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
The 5.9 is perfect for towing and I have yet to see a quad cab RT. But I could be wrong!
I don't see why the 5.9 is any different from the 5.2, same basic engine, same oiling system. Never head gasket problem years ago but I don't know whether they now use a composition gasket or shim. When I worked at a dealer, I never had to tear down a 5.9 (aka 360) and only one 5.2 (aka 318). Excluding idiots that would fill the oil pans up with sludge since they engines came with oil and never needed changed. Granted intake leaks did occur and the new engine designs are much better in the gasket arena. Still when it comes down to it in a quad cab a 4.7 auto will not hang with the 5.9 esp. with a load and 3.55's. But the 4.7 auto is supposed to be a very good trans and the engine appears to be dependable too. So the only way to tell which suits your driving needs is to test both. You may like the 5.9 or you may like the 4.7 esp. with the 3.92 gears. Which is the only gear to get if ordering IMO.
Jeff
|
NewR/T
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/26/2002
01:48:44
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well Sandman if your basing what you buy on Alldata.com then I'd look for another source. I've seen and talked to alot of R/T owners and none of them have had gasket leaks. Now if your talking about blowing gaskets while under boost then yeah they'll blow gaskets but they weren't designed for a blower. The stock 360 is probably the most reliable engine on the market right now, you can beat em up and they'll still keep ticking.
Add a blower the 4.7 and see if they blow a gasket, I'm pretty sure they'll do the same thing, but I haven't heard any bad things about either engine, they're both top notch engines, it just comes down to which one do you wanna mod more. Obviously the 5.9 is the #1 for mods right now till the mod market can get a better demand for aftermarket parts for the 4.7
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/26/2002
21:36:10
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
If you want a Quad Cab automatic, then the 5.9 is the way to go. The 4.7 is better only in mileage (only 2 mpg according to the controlled tests doen by the EPA), stock to stock a 5.9 quad cab will beat a 4.7 quad cab auto by a good 1/2 second in the 1/4 mile. The 5-speed is what makes the 4.7 the equal of the 5.9 and if you need an auto then the 4.7's less torque will lose. Then the 5.9 responds better to mods, and has more modes available. Plus the 5.9 (4x2 QC 3.92) is rated to tow more (6200 pounds) then the 4.7 (4x2 QC 3.92 auto) which is rated at 6000 pounds. That is right off the Dodge "towing guide" website. The R/T's are downrated on towing because of the suspension, nothing else.
|
Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/27/2002
09:16:19
|  RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
Payson,
You wrote "Especially after seeing some reported problems with the 4.7."
What kind of problems?
You've got some good advice here on these posts.
I guess I'm glad that my wife doesn't mind the manual tranny. Our next vehicle may be an auto tranny, but, I"ll probably aleays have the manual as well.
YOu know, a friend has a new ram QC, auto, and it comes with the 4.7.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Todd Bouton
01, QC, slt, TT, HD, Tire and handling, INfinity sound, Leer shell, 2-tone, rear slider, factory alarm, etc.
4.7, 5spd, HO cams, no belt fan, home brew air, ported 68mm TB,
(I feel this is a semi sleeper, with the leer shell, no engine badges, and it runs like a bat out of hell)
|
99rt
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/27/2002
20:48:49
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
I have a 99 R/T with a 360, with a few mods it will tow just about anything, the tow rating was reduced for safety concerns, you would know what I mean if you were ever towing a trailer on the highway and went over the "sweet-spot" where the trailer starts to wobble back and forth, the R/T was not designed to tow but rather for straight line acceleration and cornering. as for mods a 360 can be built strong very easy with the right parts, I don't know about the 4.7 it is still too new
|
paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/29/2002
13:57:24
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
I did go look at Dakota's at the dealer yesterday.
I am really considering the 5.9 all Mopar engine over the Mercedes built 4.7. I have actually owned 360's (5.9) before and have NO complaints. They are good for several hundred thousand miles and have the widest rod bearing widths compared to any small block even Ford.
The only think I have to overcome at this point is extra $$$. My car I intend on trading in is only 15 months old and very upside down at this point. I would have to actually cough up a few grand, plus take rebates, to get a descent loan on a new Dakota. Our other car, a Cirrus, is almost payed off and I'm no way going to trade it in and have two large car payments when I will have just one soon and one car payed for.
So I am now forced to wait for tax return time. Then I hope I can find at least one 5.9 on the lot. Most of the ones I saw yesterday were 4.7's.
|
Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/29/2002
17:51:36
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
99rt - that trailer wobble is a weight distribution problem - if you can shift some weight to the front of the trailer you'll be much happier.
|
RESALE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/29/2002
20:26:41
|  RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
Go 4.7.
The 5.9 is the same old Cast Iron OHV crap motor that Dodge has used since the '60's. Dodge, since the early '90s has only sold trucks due to their cool new style, not the performance of their motors. Dodge has always been behind Chevy (#1) and Ford (#2)in power, however, they didn't have a new look.
Now that Ford and Chevy has updated thier looks and longevity, Dodge is being forced to replace the old weak motors with the new, more powerful, and more efficient 4.7 and 5.7's to stay in the race.
My bet is the 5.9 will go away with the 5.2 and their owners will find them hard to resell, since everyone will want to trade them in on the new ones.
4.7 Cheaper, Better MPG, Equal performace, HIGHER RESALE VALUE.
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/29/2002
21:06:01
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
so RESALE, what motor is the new 5.7 Hemi closer to in design, the 4.7 or the 5.9? Also how did Dodge's 230 hp 318 compare to the ford and chevy truck motors in 1992 when it got the Magnum status? The Chevy motors have only gotten better since the redesign in 1999, now in 2003 the hemi comes out and smokes them all. I don't remember ford motors ever being all that powerful compared to Chevies and Dodges but maybe I'm missing something. Oh I guess they slap a supercharger on there and do OK but that's pretty much what it takes to make power in the ford gas motors.
Here's some answers for you. The new Hemi is very similar in design to the 5.9 just with new heads. While they were redesigning the block they took the time to also beef up the bottom end even more but it's still the same old cast iron, single center cam, with pushrods type design from the 60's. If you took just the block out of a 5.9 and put it next to a block of the new 5.7 and they would be very similar. Even the demensions and bore spacing is nearly the same. In 1992 Chevy had just redesigned their pickups (I'm assuming you want to compare power of fullsize because there is no contest between a Dakoka and it's v-8's against the chevy and ford small trucks and their 6's.) Anyway the new chevy's best small block was the 5.7 rated at all of 210 hp. You could get a 454 still if you wanted to equal the Magnum's 230 hp but that ended in 94. Then in 96 chevy finally upped the rating on the 5.7 to 250 hp at the expense of economy. It wasn't until 1999 that the Chevys had a significant HP advantage over the Dodges, but for some reason in all back to back, equal condition, comparision tests the 360 Ram was always the equal of the 5.3 silverado in acceleration comparisions. The best Ford truck small block up until 97 was the 5.8 and it's best rating during that time was all of 210 hp. I guess you could always try and make the same arguement with the big blocks but that old V-10 with it's 300 hp and 450 ft-lbs since 96 pretty much cleans house on a 390 or 454.
The trucks always are being improved upon, resale will alsays be tough when a redesign is just around the corner. It's not just Dodge, but look back to the 98 Chevy fullsize. It usually has to do more with the body design, but also the motors often are refreshed at the same time. It would be different if we were going backward in style and performance like in the 70's and 80's, but this is getting to be 1960 all over again and the HP/style wars is heating up again.
|
RESALE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/30/2002
01:15:09
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
My point was simply looking at the trucks that are out there now, they all have a new, more powerful, more efficient, lighter, and more sophisticated V-8s, except for Chrysler's 5.9. Once it is gone, which is possibly right around the corner with the unveiling of the 5.7, a 2003 Dodge with the 5.9, will not be as appealing as 2003 Dodge with the 4.7. Since these trucks are all quite common, there simply wont be as much attractiveness for a buyer to buy your 2003 5.9, when they could get that motor in any year vehicle, say a 2001 5.9 at a potentially a lower cost.
In my own example, when I recently purhcased my 2001, I could have bought a 1999 which had all the same features and figures, but had a 5.2. Instead, I coughed up a few more bucks, and grabbed the one w/the 4.7.
Basically, why would you want a 60 year old girlfriend, if you could have an 18-22 year old one?
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/30/2002
06:45:32
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
Ok so I don't know what I'm talking about,yes the 5.9 is dead along with the 5.2!The 5.9 will stay in school buss's.
|
ZZ
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/30/2002
13:31:43
| RE: 4.7 or 5.9?
IP: Logged
Message:
With it's simple design and gobs of low end torque, the 5.9 will be sought after for years to come. After all, I don't see muscle car owners swapping out their "old-fashioned" pushrod engines for new, high tech DOHC multivalve engines.
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
