RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update

Subject: RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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The situation only goes down hill from here.
The new HEMI motor has a drive-by-wire
throttle control. When you mash the pedal, its
not hooked up to the throttle body. So when
you get on your new HEMI, the torque
management system backs out of the throttle
as your trying to get on it. The net result is the
engine-computer combo will be harder to hot
rod.

graphiteRT
R/T

12/06/2002
14:29:39

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Canucker, we're still beating up the speed density system while forgetting that the FAST system for the Dak is speed density. Matter of fact, you'd be surprised at how closely the FAST structure of tables parallels the factory controller. For sure it cannot match the adaptive logic that DCX has spent 10's of millions to develop, but the basic framework is quite similar.

The limitations of factory speed density setup are addressed in the FAST setup with wideband reads and the 2 or 3 bar MAP support. So what if those were added to the factory controller? Would it then be a viable option in your mind?

Sorry, but I can't see much possibility for several stages within a given package. That's just too much R&D effort for limited potential returns and I don't see any company signing up for that idea. Keep in mind that this tuner will still be in very few hands outside of DCX for some time yet. I only ask because I have some limited influence and a certain level of direct access which may facilitate this type of product.

To address the Hyperspeed deal and products similar to this, the signal interupt approach is flawed for many reasons. One of the things that people doing that stuff either don't understand or refuse to accept is the intelligence of the later OBD-II controllers. They not only provide controlling signals for fuel and spark, but they also monitor results via an array of sensors and if they do not see pre-programmed results(basically the VE stuff you refer to). If folks would accept this reality much of the sensor hacks with a 10 cent resistor would stop. There's nothing wrong with this feedback within the PCM and it's actually desirable for a sanity check. Only when you're attempting to circumvent the computer with a simple hack does it become an issue.

Billy is also right on with the hemi stuff. That code goes nowhere and is not a part of this release. Totally different controller.

Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s
Soon: Viper 4 wheel discs

Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
15:02:14

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Bob: Yes, yes, yes!! If this tuner guy you talk about could incorporate at least the 2 or 3 BAR MAP sensor the way FAST does, then I'm all for it! My biggest quam actually is when it goes into open loop under part throttle boost (because the MAP reads no vacuum)... not the best for drivability I hear. Even with that capability, I'd still feel like I'm making a slight compromise with the spark advance. but, what can you do. and I still think you'd need something to fine tune the fuel on a dyno.

When I talked to Fox @ Leach, he said he only has access to RPM based tables, so he couldn't even set up a 2BAR table.

the wideband O2 would be a bonus, but not a necessary component ...

I totally agree with you on the hyperspeed and similar products.

and I know FAST is a S/D system, but it allows you to change the internal tables as you make other changes, which is where it has the biggest advantage.

IMO MAF is still a superiour method, unless you have the ability to change the tables in the S/D system (i.e. FAST). The biggest limitation of OEM MAF systems is the MAF sensor. they're kinda like OEM O2 sensors .. only calibrated over a small range of air flow. but that's a different can of worms.

What I'd like to see is a 'wide band' MAF system that is closed loop all the time with wide band O2 sensors. that'd be a hassle free system ... but that's just dreaming.

granted, the S/D method is much easier and less complicated ... it's basically an electronic carburator (sp??), except it doesn't let the tuner change out jets/veturis/etc.

Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
11:10:06

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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I see this post quietly faded away ...

any new news Bob? or alex (did you hit the dyno this weekend)?

graphiteRT
R/T

12/09/2002
11:27:45

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Canucker, I sent you an email to what I thought was your private addy. Maybe somebody else using Canucker for a handle? Do you read the DML?

Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s
Soon: Viper 4 wheel discs

.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
11:50:21

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Nope, no dyno action yet. Speaking of adaptive logic, though, I think the truck is running stronger a few days after installing the newly enlightened PCM. Like it's finally getting used to having all the correct tools at its disposal.

A thought did occur to me over the weekend..... the A/F ratios that I sent to Tom Fox were from a tail-pipe sniffer. That means that it was reading that rich AFTER the catalytic converter. So, this whole process has been even LESS accurate than I originally feared. Guess we'll have to see.... Although I'm not familiar with the set-up of the instrument we used at the Ford dealer... it was definitely NOT the DRB3. Maybe the machine accounted for a catalytic converter. Probably not.

Any thoughts on this? Bob? Canucker?

Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
13:55:35

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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well if your cat was rattling and shaking like you said it was ... it probably got screwed by the rich A/F and by the time you hit the tail pipe sniffer, it (the cat) wasn't doing anything. I'd guess you'd be ok with the A/F you gave him.

yeah I read DML too Bob and post every now and again as Canucker .. but not as much as I used to though. I also tend to check the boards before email :)

MikeD
*R/T*

12/09/2002
14:03:11

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Bob have you dynoed your truck yet? If so what were the #'s...and did you dyno it before the supercharger?

~Mike~

Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon

.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
14:41:07

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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The cat's not rattling THAT bad.... heh. It's just not gonna last as long as it might have before I got my raw-gas tune-up.

graphiteRT
R/T

12/09/2002
14:44:32

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Mike, the last dyno was before any of the top end mods and before the blower. It was only 217 rwhp. Based on my ET and mph when we went to the track in Sept. rwhp is now above 400. Should have some new dyno stuff here within a couple of weeks.

Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s
Soon: Viper 4 wheel discs

.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE

12/16/2002
12:18:40

RE: Leach Re-Flash Preliminary Update
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Okay, I'm gonna post a new heading here..... go check that one.

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