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Turk 182
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
21:58:15
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 Subject: Throttle Body
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I currently have a modified stock throttle body but am going to install a new 52mm TB from Holley. I was pleased with the modified stock improvement and hope to get a little more from the holley. Other mods to my 5.2 are MP headers, 2Brl M1 and 3" exhaust. Has anyone who used these found a down side to them? They look like a excellent piece.
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ticats
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
22:15:15
| RE: Throttle Body
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No personal experience with the Holley 52mm tb but you may want to read the following (about 5th Q&A down from the top) on 52mm tbs. HTH.
http://www.flometrics.com/Questions.htm
ticats
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rtdkota
R/T
12/02/2002
23:39:08
| RE: Throttle Body
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The 50mm F&B flows nearly as much as the Holley 52mm.. The Holley has a sharp, non-radius'd turn down from the top of the TB to the bore. This makes for a little less crisp off idle compared to the F&B. This is from a few different people that have compared the Holley to the F&B. Otherwise, you should be happy with it I guess.
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
RTDKOTA
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Todd W
GenIII
12/03/2002
00:58:59
|  RE: Throttle Body
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't our current stock TBs made by Holly?
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kota on 20s
GenIII
12/03/2002
02:05:50
| RE: Throttle Body
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yes, but look at a stock TB, then look at the 52mm holly aftermarket TB, and you will see the differance.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ceramic JBA headers, 3
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Todd W
GenIII
12/03/2002
03:26:40
|  RE: Throttle Body
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I figured there was a difference. But I was just curious.
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rtdkota
R/T
12/03/2002
09:03:03
| RE: Throttle Body
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Depends... a lot of the newer castings have NO Holley markings on them... so there's been a change every once in a while-- most likely Dodge didn't award the contract to Holley for that model/year. I'll find a couple of TBs from my stack of stockers-- and take some pictures. Small differences on the tops of the TBs (same casting numbers, but difference FONT and size, and NO Holley markings).
Sam
RTDKOTA
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
09:36:48
| RE: Throttle Body
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Holleys = no improvement
Fastman = same outside looks. Flows real well. Very close to Flometrics in flow but much cheaper.
Flowmetrics = Looks great. Flows best. Costs more.
Hummmm!!!!What did I forget?
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rtdkota
R/T
12/03/2002
10:06:14
| RE: Throttle Body
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Don't forget, with a core charges... if you plan on keeping your stock TB, the Flometrics TB is priced about the same.
(flometrics, not flowmetrics... hehe)
RTDKOTA
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
14:46:02
| RE: Throttle Body
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Sam's right...I was going to go with the Fastman V6 TB, but I found out that I could get an F&B for just $100 more. The quality of a brand new F&B billet TB, plus I get to keep my stocker in case I sell the truck or have to reinstall it for warranty work...for only $100? The choice was easy for me. Get the F&B, you won't be sorry.
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
18:34:05
| RE: Throttle Body
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rtdkota: you got me. Whats a little bitty "w" between friends?
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frog
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
22:19:03
| RE: Throttle Body
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I have the 52MM Holley and am for the most part happy with it. If I had to do it all over though, and i may still will. Go with F&B. Those guys know there stuff, and are great to work with.
My 2 pennies!
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Turk 182
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
09:12:14
| RE: Throttle Body
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eggbert I supose you have numbers and first hand knowledge to back up your statements or are you just spouting off. Do you honestly think the holley makes no improvement?
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hdrt
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
09:54:19
|  RE: Throttle Body
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I have an A.P.S. 50mm and I love the way it makes my baby run. It has polished ss thinned plates, riveted on instead of screwed. All radiused nicely, and flows just as well as any tb out there.
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Chip
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
10:17:57
| RE: Throttle Body
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Interesting read at-
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5651
Dyno comparisions of different TBs out there.I went with the Fastman 52mm TB as it made ~30ft-lbs of torque MORE than the F&B TB at 2000RPM-the range which I use the most to get my fat pig grunting out of a pit is ~1800-3000 RPM.
Please note-I have no personal gains in endorsing any of the TBs out there...
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rtdkota
R/T
1/23/2003
12:29:31
|  RE: Throttle Body
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Message:
One word of caution on those dyno results--- Each pull, on each TB was conducted ONE time.
I can run my truck on the dyno, 2 separate pulls, and show a variance of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-15% variance on torque, and 2-3% variance on HP... Without running back to back to back pulls and averaging-- direct comparisons, especially in NON-peak areas, between mods (intake to intake , TB to TB, exhaust to exhaust)-- If you look at the point to which the F&B pull starts, and where the Fastman 52mm starts, there's a significant DROP in torque, then it begins to pull... That can be a torque shift due to tranny shift, clutch, wheel on the dyno slippage, etc-- OR, how dyno operator applied the gas pedal (mashed it from a given RPM on one run, whereas he ROLLED the power with the other run-- that's why you need to 'sample' a few runs-- again, only at the peak is it really accurate, unless you can overall 3 seperate runs.)
I can show you 2 runs back to back on my truck that will make you stratch your head... "How did he get the curve to pull like that in the low end, whereas the other run is more linear?" It's all how the tester did the gas... The peaks were the same (within 1-2 hp), but the inital curve profile was slightly different---
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
RTDKOTA
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Chip
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
12:45:09
| RE: Throttle Body
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Apparently all TBs had two back to back pulls and dano360 told me the gas pedal application etc. were consistent.
Just posting my thoughts here, so far I was not real impressed with the F&B on my friend's truck when I drove it (we tried both the 50 & 52 F&Bs), I'll see how good the Fastman is when I get it next week.
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rtdkota
R/T
1/23/2003
13:04:17
| RE: Throttle Body
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I asked re: dyno pulls (all of them), and was only given the 1 sheet per TB. It would be beneficial to look at both pulls for each TB if they exist. Also, in all fairness to all TBs used-- on a 'hot swap'... your PCM doesn't have the necessary drive cycle to learn between each run. Not sure if the PCM was even reset between pulls, but regardless-- you'd have to give some engine run time on those to help the PCM learn it's new parameters.
"Just posting my thoughts here, so far I was not real impressed with the F&B on my friend's truck when I drove it (we tried both the 50 & 52 F&Bs), I'll see how good the Fastman is when I get it next week."
What's your friend's truck??? Mods?? What about on your truck?? There's quite a bit of people who have switched to F&B from other brands and have reported much improved throttle response. The TB isn't going to give a kick in the pants power difference by any means-- so if a person is expecting that-- they aren't going to get it.
Have you run a F&B on your truck?
Sam
RTDKOTA
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Chip
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
13:45:40
| RE: Throttle Body
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Yup, mods on both trucks. Will be putting on an F&B 50 on my truck next week, will post results.
I see you're really starting to defend F&B-understand I'm not knocking them, just posting my results. Are you affiliated with them?
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Anthony G
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
14:07:15
| RE: Throttle Body
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I have to say, when my truck was stock the F&B 50mm TB was one of the few performance parts that gave my engine a noticable hp increase!
Right up there with 1.7RR and Cam shafts.
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Chip
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
14:11:55
| RE: Throttle Body
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Anthony, I've heard good things about the F&B 50 from other Dak owners as well...good to hear!!
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JamR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
14:47:20
| RE: Throttle Body
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Ne1 know if Magnum Performance makes a good TB ?
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rtdkota
R/T
1/23/2003
16:19:20
| RE: Throttle Body
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I do testing for them, and I sell them, but I'm just asking questions re: your experiences, that's all... No defense either way. Just trying to get feedback-- it helps to know what people are doing, results, etc.
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
RTDKOTA
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Chip
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
16:37:29
| RE: Throttle Body
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I hear ya...well, I have two 500+HP street driven cars that I tune on the dyno + track....and also manage to squeeze out 141 HP from 60 cubic inches in a 365lb package.
As far as F&B or Fastman TBs are concerned, I do not speculate-my observations are based on real world driving tests under practically identical conditions.
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Buddy Jones
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
18:28:31
| RE: Throttle Body
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The Holleys are not crap.
The best choices of throttle bodies are the Holley, Mopar, and the F&B.
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