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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
11:25:44
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 Subject: RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
Shane: You are dead wrong, sorry to tell you
Duner is 99% correct. Why? key word: "RESISTANCE TO ACCELERATION" (i.e. inertia). The 1% he didn't mention (probably so he didn't confuse people) is the actual friction loss ... this _IS_ constant ... but its typically only 10-15hp (this comes from friction of pistons on cylinder walls mostly, but also sliding friction in gears, bearings etc. etc.)
litlpunisher: the reason people are concerned about it is because if you have that 300 BHP motor you're talking about, and you can reduce your drivetrain loss from 20% to 15%, you'll win a race against the guy with the same 300BHP who still has his 20% loss.
alex: even Sir Newton agrees with Duner :) F=ma ...
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e=mc2
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
11:33:42
|  RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
F=MxA, that why we should all cut everything out of our trucks, the radio, amp and speakers-gone; the spare, seats, jack, liners, visors, etc-gone;
the tailgate, taillights, etc.-gone
work with the equation, reduce 'M'
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
11:42:26
|  Workload/Friction?
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Absolutely! Canucker had it right about 15 posts ago.... I just reiterated his statement. I left out the actual workload (water pump, alternator, PS pump, AC compressor) and frictional drag portion to simplify the explanation. I'm thinking that the workload/friction portion is what's messing up the understanding. Those will be more of a constant - AFTER it's all to speed.
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
17:57:33
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Well explained , Duner. I didnt think I`d get this much response to my post. Logically thinking , I thought it was always a NUMBER. Guess , I was wrong.
KRC Tech posted on this thread about the Viper torque converter reducing drivetrain loss from 22 to 18%. How can a TRQ converter do that ?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
19:05:43
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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I don't know the specifics of that exact convertor - but a smaller and lighter convertor would rev quicker since there would be less flywheel action/weight to get moving. Since it's probably a higher stall convertor - it would free up some torque off the bottom end of the rpm scale to let the engine gain more momentum before engaging the trans and trying to drive the wheels.
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Mike M
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
21:14:27
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
Typically, a set of meshed gears is 98% efficient. So for every set of meshed gears in you transmission, you can expect to lose 2%. That is partly why automatics are less efficient since they have all of those planetary gears to spin. As far as your transmission goes, you will always have a set percentage of loss. Other items such as the torque converter and a/c have losses proportional to how fast they are spinning.
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Mike M
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
00:17:23
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
Typically, a set of meshed gears is 98% efficient. So for every set of meshed gears in you transmission, you can expect to lose 2%. That is partly why automatics are less efficient since they have all of those planetary gears to spin. As far as your transmission goes, you will always have a set percentage of loss. Other items such as the torque converter and a/c have losses proportional to how fast they are spinning.
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pussy
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
00:33:10
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
torque converter is the biggest loss. don`t you dumb as$es know how one of them work!!! it deals with fluid dynamics not like a clutch. i hate you all. you picasso diarreah toilet bowl painters!!!!!
eennuuuhhhh aaahhhh!!!!
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Todd
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
17:28:26
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
Actually, there is only one way to increase power and that is to get more air and fuel into the cylinders. There are many ways to accomplish this, but they all have to do with increasing these two variables. When you decrease resistance (underdrive pulleys, electric fan, etc.) or friction (Synthetic lubricants) you are limiting this loss of power. This may be nitpicking, but it's just an observation.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
17:43:09
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
LOL .. I didn't even notice the 'pussy' post! LMAO!
"i hate you all. you picasso diarreah toilet bowl painters!!!!!"
aaahaahahaha ... phew... that was funny ...
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
14:18:36
|  RE: BHP and RWHP
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That 'Todd' post was NOT from me.
hey Todd, if it's that simple, why do they make different cams, And why does trying to change the intake or output often result in a LOSS of HP and TQ?
And why do larger injectors often result in an inefficeint engine?
Lot's of matching to achieve efficiency of HP&TQ to CI ratio.
Todd, do you perhaps a last initial or something? Todd, cool name and spelling by the way.
Todd Bouton
01, QC, SLT, 2-tone w/ flares, Tire and handling pack, Trailer tow w/ HD service group, Leer shell, 4.7, 5spd manual, homebrew intake, ported 68mmTB, no stinkin viscous fan/clutch, HO CAMS, 180tstat, ......
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
15:12:19
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
Different cams allow the air & fuel to enter the cylinders in different ammounts and at different speeds. Larger injectors cause a loss because there is not enough air getting in. This air getting in is affected by the intake manifold, the heads, the cams, the throttlebody, the intake tube, and many other things. The fuel getting in is by the pump, the injectors, the fuel filter, the fuel lines, the computer, etc....
It really does come down to more air and fuel in, more power out. Somewhere in there, there's an explosion, but it really is as simple as more air and more fuel. It just has to be in the correct amounts.
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Beevis
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
15:34:18
| RE: BHP and RWHP
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Message:
Somewhere in there, there's an explosion,
uh huh huh, he said 'explosion', uh, huh huh,
FIRE, FIRE
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