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dr0p0ff
GenIII
 
9/27/2002
17:47:53
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 Subject: CW - give up on fuel return?
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I'd like to try to do it, but I'd also like to use your knowledge on the subject. Spell it out for me nice and simple as to what has to be done, and the complications you ran into. (if any) nice and slow, Barney style
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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CW
GenIII
9/27/2002
19:30:25
|  RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Yeah pretty much I didn't figure it was worth it up here as it doesn't get hot for more than 2 months a year.
I never really figured out how to pull it off completely. I was going to use part of the diesel fuel tank modual for the return line as they have a line going in and out of their modual. I would then splice it to mine and run a line back. The cheapest bypass type regulator I could find in Canada was about $300. Figured I could put the money to better use.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/27/2002
21:42:27
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
hrmm.. i remember bernd saying something about the older daks having a return fuel system. i dont see it being too terribly difficult to pull off if that's true. i know next to nothing about fuel systems, but i just bought a few books to fix that. (when i read stuff like that the wheels turn too much) thanks for the input CW
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Wiley
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/27/2002
22:17:14
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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I was diggin around on the krc perf. page and they had this
http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/fuellinemodification.html
check it out, it sound promising, but i dont remember if they listed a cost
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CW
GenIII
9/28/2002
01:02:47
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
The injector spacing is not the same on the 5.2 and 5.9 compared to the 4.7.
5.2 is like I_II_I
4.7 is like I_I_I_I
I being the injectors. I have been looking at neon fuel rails as the spacing is very similar. I will check it out as there is a neon fuel rail at work.
You can just have the fuel go in on the drivers and out the passengers side through the schrader valve.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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Muzzy
GenIII
9/28/2002
04:56:40
|  RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
I had built my own injection system for a Mustang that I used to drag race. It all comes down to how much you want to spend and time.
Since you would be building a return line system and your fuel pressure would be regulated by a mechanical regulator, you could probably just crimp off the factory fuel line and leave it connected to the factory harness/PCM. The line would pressurize(fuel would have no where to go)and factory in tank regulator would just go into bypass. That way you wouldn't interfere with the sending unit or trip a PCM code since the PCM monitors the voltage output sent from the resistor track on the sending unit.
I would install a separate inline pump and also get an inline filter. You can wire the pump with a relay to turn it on when you turn the key to the "run" position. You would have to drop the tank and drill a hole in the top for the return line and I would drill a new larger hole for the feed line near the bottom. You can then install Aeroquip tank fittings for both the feed line and return line. I would run #6 (3/8in) for the return and #8(1/2inch) for the feed line.
The fuel rails and some of the parts you need you can buy at Force Fuel Injection. They sell billet rail at $10 per foot for .500in diameter. You would have to tap the ends of the rail for AN style fittings and machine the injector holes. You can measure the factory ones for the specs.
I would run braided fuel line for the entire system. The feed line will go to the front of the motor and T off to the front of your billet rails. At the back of the rails you would have to fabricate lines to T into the Fuel Pressure Regulator (some regulators have 2 inlets, so you can just run the line directly from each rail to a side of the regulator). Then just run #6 return line from the regulator back to the top of your tank where you installed the fitting.
That's about it other then running the fuel lines. You could install a mechanical fuel pressure gage (Autometer makes one that goes to 100psi) to make adjusting easier. Get a regulator that is capable of going up to 100psi. Pressure adjustment would be as easy as turning the screw on the regulator to your desired pressure. You can get all your Aeroquip/Earl fittings through Jegs or Summit.
I hope this helps. Semper Fi.
-Muzzy
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show
that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and
both of these opinions generate hatred..."
-Niccolo Machiavelli
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CW
GenIII
9/28/2002
11:02:31
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
It may look at the sending unit but pays no attention to the actual fuel pressure.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/28/2002
12:57:42
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
IP: Logged
Message:
so then the crimping of the fuel line wouldn't be needed. that what yer sayin CW?
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Muzzy
GenIII
9/28/2002
17:10:11
|  RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
dr0p0ff-
What are you using for an O2 simm? Did you build your own like the one posted on another thread here?
Theoretically you could disconnect the factory fuel pump power wire and not have to crimp the fuel line or you could just pull out the fuel pump relay. That would work too. You still might want to plug the end of the factory line with something when you disconnect it from the factory fuel rails so you don't get fuel vapor in your engine compartment.
-Muzzy
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show
that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and
both of these opinions generate hatred..."
-Niccolo Machiavelli
|
CW
GenIII
9/28/2002
17:29:18
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
Use the original pressure line just run a line back for the return. I was going to use the diesel top half of the modual to eliminate the factory regulator.
Muzzy: I am saying to use tha factory fuel pump and line makes things much easier.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/28/2002
17:43:51
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
you guys are mentioning replacing the factory fuel rails. possible to tap a return line into the passenger side factory rail?
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/28/2002
17:46:25
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
Muzzy i purchased an O2 SIMM from speedtweaks back in february while i was in the middle east. as soon as i get the rest of my parts in i'm going to take about 10 days of leave for install time. the fuel system is just something that i'd like to give a shot at
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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CW
GenIII
9/28/2002
17:57:52
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
IP: Logged
Message:
Yes use the original fuel rails, lines, fuel pump. You just need to bypass the regulator on the top of the tank and run a return line from the schrader valve on the passenger side of the fuel rails.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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Muzzy
GenIII
9/28/2002
18:06:40
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
CW- How would you disable the factory in-tank regulator? That would be much easier if you used the factory pump. Do you think it will go over 54psi once the regulator is disabled?
dr0p0ff- I suppose you could weld a fitting on the end of the factory rails to use for a return line. The thing that would worry me is how much fuel pressure the factory rails can hold. I don't think I would take them over 70psi, but I don't think you would need that much anyway.
-Muzzy
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show
that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and
both of these opinions generate hatred..."
-Niccolo Machiavelli
|
dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/28/2002
18:23:45
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
Muzzy i'm trying to do it as cheaply as possible. If i need that much more fuel pressure later then i can upgrade fuel rails when i need it, but getting the return on there will make an improvement in performance i'm sure. Thanks guys for the help
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Muzzy
GenIII
9/28/2002
19:50:09
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
dr0p0ff-
I can understand the cost saving strategy. For me a penny saved is a penny closer to supercharger..He he. I don't think our Dak's need that much more fuel either. Not unless you're using some sort of forced induction. That little IAT adjuster I have is enough to cause my plugs to turn black if I richen it too much.
Good luck with the project Devil Dog. Do me a favor and keep us in the loop on the progress. I would be interested in how it turns out. Thanks.
-Muzzy
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show
that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and
both of these opinions generate hatred..."
-Niccolo Machiavelli
|
dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/28/2002
20:25:56
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
It'll be a bit before i start... just trying to get things straight in my head as to how to go about it. thanks again
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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CW
GenIII
9/28/2002
21:05:11
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
IP: Logged
Message:
Muzzy that is what the diesel pump modual is for. There is no regulator. What would work better is to find a 92-93 fuel pump modual and use the fitting off of it. It will plug in place of the stock regulator filter. Guess I will have to take pics to show you what I am talking about.
It is a very cheap and effecive way to do it.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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CW
GenIII
9/28/2002
21:33:54
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Diesel fuel pump modual. Notice it has 2 lines and no filter/regulator assembly.
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/showownerpic.asp?u=3239&n=78678&pos=1
A pic of the one on my truck. It has the big filter/regulator assembly.
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/showownerpic.asp?u=3239&n=78679&pos=1
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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Muzzy
GenIII
10/05/2002
07:15:16
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
IP: Logged
Message:
CW-
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post some pics. Sorry I haven't responded sooner. I have been pretty busy, so I haven't been able to get on computer very much.
It looks like the diesel pump would work. How much fuel pressure is the diesel pump capable of?It shouldn't be too tough to install regulator off of the test port. I am not planning on doing mine until I get my supercharger. I am still drooling over the Kenne Bell.
-Muzzy
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show
that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and
both of these opinions generate hatred..."
-Niccolo Machiavelli
|
CW
GenIII
10/05/2002
10:12:51
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
There is no pump in the diesel modual but the top half will mate to the bottom half of a regular one. Thats all I was going to do.
4.7 HO, CW style
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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bassboy170
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/06/2002
16:06:38
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
hey guys just for your info i have a 97 dak w/5.2 supercharged im running a 200lph inline pump a 250lph intank holley pump and the powerdyne fmu everything else is stock and i have around 55psi of fuel pressure at idle and 95psi on full boost it runs sweet except that it is a little rich when it is idling for a while or when u first start it up after its been sitting i think it is because the injectors are bleeding because i ruined them with all that pressure but anyway i am about to work on that return fuel system and i willl get it to work ill keep in touch
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ALEX
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/06/2002
16:54:49
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
Get some Ford Motorsport injectors. Prolly the 24# models. You can find them for a good price at http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_Sets.html
Bruce Holt is a good guy and Bosch injectors are waaay better than the stock factory injectors.....
Good Luck.
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bassboy170
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/06/2002
20:56:56
| RE: CW - give up on fuel return?
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Message:
i forgot to add i already have 24# fms injectors
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