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Phil
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
15:20:01
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 Subject: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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I'm seriously trying to figure out which to do...a supercharger or turbo for my 01 4.7 cc DAK.
MY truck is my everyday ride and I 'm not really interested in burning up a dragstrip, so HP/TQ above 5500 RPM isn't critical. However, I do like power and the ability to kill the competition at lights every once and awhile and want the ability to really go when I punch it, so my low end mid rage power is important. So my question for you Supercharged or turboed DAKS is: how do these systems affect everyday drivability and which would be a better setup for me??
Sorry for the lo-o-o-ng question, but I need some real advice from people that are in the know on this. Thanks!!
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buddy jones
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
16:12:14
|  RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
alright, id go with a supercharger.they are longer lasting than turbos are.superchargers also produce better gas mileage nomatter what anyone says because it creates a better fuel/air mixture.the only way that one will bring down gas mileage is if you ride it hard all the time.im not talkin three or four times a week, but three or four times every two days. tubos also lack power up till about 3000 rpm. superchargers wont break down(unless your runnin 10000+ rpm). if you wont low end torque definently go with a kenne bell s/c.itll take off about a second-second and a half.
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Phil
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
16:15:39
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Thanks for the opinion. Is KB flashing the 5 speed PCM for a 2001 yet to work with their SC??
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PositivePSI
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
17:20:20
|  RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Lots of inaccurate information in the above post - where do you guys learn this BS?
First off, most of the SCs offered for Daks are centrifugals, which don't build appreciable boost until after 3000 rpm. They ( Paxton/Vortech ) will deliver 8-11 psi or more at the shift point. The Kenne Bell SC does build boost at low rpm, but is limited to 5-6 psi total. Turbos depend on exhaust gas temperature/volume, and can build boost well below 3000 rpm. Really, it seems that some people who post here just make up their information!
I've owned both Roots-type blowers and my current Paxton. While it is nice to have that extra power down at 1500 rpm, it makes keeping traction a MAJOR problem with a truck. The Paxton builds power starting at 2500-3000 rpm and keeps going and going, where the original 5.9 engine ran out of steam by 4000 rpm. The centrifugal SCs are great for this engine, allowing the usual great low-rpm power and adding to it on the top end.
The KB has disadvantages beyond its power curve....you have to remove it to change spark plugs(!) for example. There have been problems with the KB computer, and a local guy with one has detonation problems he can't solve. This is not a condemnation of the KB SC at all, just a heads-up.
There are very few turbocharger kits for Daks, and those I've seen are NOT ready for the commercial market yet. My suggestion - if you want dependable power, go with a major-brand supercharger, positive displacement or centrifugal. [ The Powerdyne is the least expensive, but its dependability is questionable - see the KRC website. ]
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DEEP
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
17:34:57
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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First off Kenne Bell kit does not have to be removed to change the plugs. He's got a 4.7L. Also the Kenne bell is a simple pully change to up the boost. Its not limited to 5-6 psi.
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Phil
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
17:39:20
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
OK thanks for everyones info so far...but my question still stands: how will these systems affect my everday drivability on the street ( especially when I'm in local traffic ( the 20-45 MPH stuff) and stop & go) and not trying to punch it?? Will my truck still be reasonable to drive or will it be like trying to parallel park a AA nitro fueled rail dragster??
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GlenC
GenIII
9/26/2002
19:07:20
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Well, to answer the question of drivability over the long term, i've put about 35,000 miles on my Kenne Bell blown 4.7. I've had zero problems, (other than the standard 'blower dont like auto' issues, but kennebell DOES have a program for that, im just too poor to get it yet) and she still pulls like a champ. I chose the KB because i wanted low end power. I love how the KB gives me full boost at 2k rpm. Granted, i spin the tires like there's no tomorrow, but i dont go to the track that much, and around where i live spinning the tires means POWAR! :)
I havent changed the plugs sence i put the blower on (i know, shame on me), so i cant tell you how hard that is going to be. When i do change them (with injector upgrade), i'll be pulling the blower to get the injectors off anyways. Besides, it'll be a good time to check on everything.
Every day driving is easy. Hell, i can get on the freeway with out getting boost. The blower will let you rev up to and probably past 4000rpm with no boost. It all depends on how you drive it. The KB system is really good at 'detecting' your driving style. Sometimes i wish i could show people what im talking about, its really hard to explain. You just have to 'feel' your truck.
When i first got the blower i was afraid that at 2000+ rpm, i'd be a boost monster. But its not true, i'll cruise down the freeway at 2500 rpm with the boost gauge in the negitives.
Anything i would have done different? Yes. I should have waited on getting the blower. I should have waited for the cams to come out (KRC), and saved up my money so i could get a nice big fatty throttle body, and maybe some head work. Am i glad i have it? Yes. I will never own a car or truck with out some sort of forced induction. Overall? Get one, enjoy it, it is probably the coolest thing i can do(did) to my truck, not only do you have tire melting power at 2000 rpm, its got this wow factor. It looks a hell of alot better than the paxton too. :)
GlenC
'01, CC, SLT, 4.7, Auto, 3.55 LS, 4x4
MBRP stainless dual rear exit catback.
Robert Shaw 180 T-Stat. Autolite 3923s
JBA Headers.
Kenne Bell supercharged.
Fried Rice
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xplikt
GenIII
9/26/2002
19:22:03
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
How in holy hell did you rack 35,000 miles on an 01?
You need to shutup with these Kenne Bell rantings quick. I am trying to keep myself from buying one until next spring. These reviews of yours are going to send me to the bank!
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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GlenC
GenIII
9/26/2002
19:41:18
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
HAHA! Just do it man! I woke up one morning, called my work and said i was going to be late, drove to the bank, walked in the door and said "i want a loan for $5,000 so i can, blow my warrenty out of the water on my new truck." 30 mins later i had $5,000 in my bank account, i drove to work, and called Kenne Bell, and spent every last penny of it. :) GET THE POLISHED model! It looks so nice.
I actually have 45k on the truck, and i got it last week of Nov. 2000. I put the blower on at around 10k, it was probably less, but thats just a guess. Lets just say, i love to drive, and i'd rather drive my truck than the accord. I've takin my truck to the oregon coast more times than i can remember, seattle thousands of times, and to Vancouver. BC a few times. I love my truck, and i love to drive it. :)
GlenC
'01, CC, SLT, 4.7, Auto, 3.55 LS, 4x4
MBRP stainless dual rear exit catback.
Robert Shaw 180 T-Stat. Autolite 3923s
JBA Headers.
Kenne Bell supercharged.
Fried Rice
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xplikt
GenIII
9/26/2002
19:52:01
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
Yeah, it's that everday romp and stomp power that I'm looking for and the Kenne Bell has it. I am already convinced in getting one, the question is now when. Driving is one of my only fun activities and any way to spruce it up would be awsome. Wake up, go to school, then go to work, then go back to school, and then back to work, then do homework, and finally go to sleep. See what I mean?
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/26/2002
20:46:03
|  RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
Does the kit come with the 1.5l or 2l blower? I have been researching them, whipples(basicly the same), all the centrifugals, and turboes and still undecided. I just don't want to start changing things and have them being a waste if I go in a different direction. I know once I go to the track and race it'll be all over. I have even talked to Pat Musi about the turbo systems that he is starting to build. The real big selling point for the screw types is the instant throttle response it produces. Maybe when my truck has enough miles I'll just get an all aluminum 572ci Indy hemi?
Insanity is such a beautiful thing don't ya think.
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Tom Slick
GenII
9/27/2002
00:47:52
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
buddy jones - Superchargers are NOT as reliable ad do ot last as long as a properly maintained turbo...
There are more turbocharged vehicles on the road than supercharged ones... and they run for a lot longer time!!!
Later!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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xplikt
GenIII
9/27/2002
02:03:47
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
Tom is the Turbo Messiah.
heh.
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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GlenC
GenIII
9/27/2002
02:42:29
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
IP: Logged
Message:
Yes, i figure im gonna lose the blower one of these days. Im hoping for a good 100k before i send it off for a rebuild. But if all goes as planned a nice and shiny 5.7 should be under the hood. Damn my displacement envy.
GlenC
'01, CC, SLT, 4.7, Auto, 3.55 LS, 4x4
MBRP stainless dual rear exit catback.
Robert Shaw 180 T-Stat. Autolite 3923s
JBA Headers.
Kenne Bell supercharged.
Fried Rice
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/27/2002
03:41:13
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
I don't have displacement envy; I could care less if it only has 800 cc's, as long as it will push me into the back seat. Tom, look for me either in Dec or Jan. I am going turbo with out a doubt.
Later,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/27/2002
09:42:15
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
The bad thing about turbos is when you come off the freeway you have to let the thing idle for 5 minutes before you shut it down or you'll toast the bearings. It's sort of a PITA unless you spend the extra money on a turbo timer. I plan on going supercharged.
-Jon
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Tom Slick
GenII
9/27/2002
09:56:26
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
Actually it is recommended to let the engine idel for 30-60 seconds before shutting it off... not 5 minutes...
Later!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/27/2002
10:01:27
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
17 years of driving trucks (quit 4 years ago) and haven't had to let a turbo cool down in 19 years, the days of cooling a turbo has long since been gone. The new oils and turbo designs do not require a cool down period (unless you maybe just finished climbing cabbage mountain in Oregon 30 seconds ago). Nobody runs a turbo at max boost all the time, so as for stopping after going to the supermarket, just shut it down and walk away. Old school turbo required a 5 min cool down; today’s turbo do not. (Fred Flintstone used his feet to stop, we don't)
Detroit Diesel was one of the first forced induction engines, they used super chargers, today Detroit diesels are one of the most powerful yet fuel efficient truck engines; they use turbo now. HUM, I wonder why all truck engine companies use turbo and not super chargers. Maybe because it is more efficient, and isn’t as parasitic as super chargers.
For my money the turbo is by far the best investment.
Later,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
9/27/2002
11:42:17
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
90 bucks for a turbo timer.. set it for 30 secs, and walk away. its not even that hard to be on the safe side of things
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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BD
Dodge Dakota
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9/27/2002
12:55:00
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
My brother has a drag car with a sc on it, last week he ran 8.56 in the 1/4 mile, I asked him why people don't run turbo's like in the fast and the furiose, he just laghed and said somthing about fuel injection and it sucks too???
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GlenC
GenIII
9/27/2002
13:43:02
|  RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
People get it these discussions about which is better, a supercharger or a turbo. My fav. response, "i dont care." I'm a firm believer in turbos, and i love and beat the sh|t out of my supercharger. Sure, a turbo may be more efficient, and give you bigger numbers, but there is just some thing about having a root style blower on top of my '01 4.7L. Hey, and superchargers just look damn sexy. I've had people ask me "why didnt you wait for the turbo?" Well, honestly, im one of those "i need it NOW" type of people, and i couldnt wait. Hey, there are some really good plus's with the supercharger too, all of which has been discussed before so i dont need to go over it again. When it comes to compairing the two, it just seems like a broken record, "superchargers have low end umpf," "turbos can be tuned to do that and have a higher hp." It goes on and on. I'd kill to have a NA engine pushin 600hp in my truck, thats what i want. Some people like turbos, some people like superchargers, and still others like amature ghey pr0n. Big deal.
Sorry for this rant, and i know it didnt take much to set me off, i just think this was the straw that broke the camels back...
GlenC
'01, CC, SLT, 4.7, Auto, 3.55 LS, 4x4
MBRP stainless dual rear exit catback.
Robert Shaw 180 T-Stat. Autolite 3923s
JBA Headers.
Kenne Bell supercharged.
Fried Rice
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Bryan
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/27/2002
16:42:47
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
The old Detroit diesels ran A blower on their engines because they were two stroke engines not four stroke like the ones they run today. Alot of the old 6V92's and 8V71's ran A blower and A turbo.You couldn't even start an old Detroit without A blower, due to the fact that they didn't have an intake stroke just compression.
The diffrence in A blower and A supercharger is 7 psi.anything above 7psi. you are supercharging the incoming air into the cylinder.
I think A polished 6V92 blower sticking out of the hood of A GEN II would be really cool.
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/27/2002
18:02:20
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
You can argue for weeks on which is better but the truth is that it just depends on the application, there are as many oem supercharged vehicles as there are turbos.
-Jon
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Tom Slick
GenII
9/27/2002
18:05:11
|  RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Jon - wrong... there are a lot more oem turbocharged vehicles than there are oem supercharged vehicles... and that is a fact...
Later!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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D
GenIII
9/27/2002
18:06:15
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
IP: Logged
Message:
turbo's sound soooo cool though. that is my
only beef about the screw type kenne bell, it
isnt as loud as the centrifugal powerdyne's or
vortech's.
01 4.7 CC auto 3.92 LS
Dynomax 3" catback, dumped
HO cams, HO intake manifold
ported-polished 68mm TB
180 stat, no clutch fan
airaid intake, DJMdrop 3-6
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/27/2002
19:17:24
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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I think in some cases, it all comes down to what your company sells as to your preference.
Then again it may be your preference, and therefore your company sells that particular thing.
But that's just a guess.
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Bernd
*GenIII*
9/27/2002
23:53:07
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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And then there's the companies that sell both. (Depends on application and budget)
Blower sitting out of the hood...now that would be cool!
http://www.magnumforce.com/charger.htm
I remember when he was first building the cars back in the late 80's - Ron would come out to the Saturday cruise nights with some of them. :)
He also does SB Mopars as well.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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91DakotaFreak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/28/2002
18:28:43
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
anybody know if there is a S/C or T/C out there for a 91 pre mag 318c.i.
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Tom Slick
GenII
9/28/2002
18:33:16
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
SpeedTweaks can build you a custom twin-turbo setup...
Later!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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afi360
R/T
9/28/2002
22:42:38
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
the turnaround for speedtweaks is 3 months or something like that, right??? with a total cost of over 6500 bucks right???
i DO like turbos, i DO like superchargers...with a 100 HP shot of n2o, which will work better for me..which will see 100K w/o being torn apart??? which is cheaper??? which is easier to tweak??? and this is not sarcasm, this is me being an amateur....arent turbos much better above 4500 RPM??....my redline is 5250ish, so wouldnt an s/c be better on my truck??? wouldnt a turbo be more at home on a car with a wider powerband with a 7750 redline???
just a question....
ps....is the m1 intake worth the money and time???
thanx
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Tom Slick
GenII
9/29/2002
02:13:01
| RE: Supercharger/Turbo Drivability?
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Message:
The price depends on what you want...and the time it takes to do it also depends on what you want...
Thanks!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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