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William Hiatt
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
19:39:42
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 Subject: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Well you may remember my questions regarding the pinging on my engine with the new HO cams. The local friendly dealer had the truck all day and said the following:
A) It runs like a bat out of hell!
B) It's fast
C) The noise you're hearing is pinging.
I currently have Autolite 5224's and the stock 195 thermostat. So my question is the following:
1) Should I replace the thermostat with a 180? Is the Robert-Shaw 330-180 a good one to use (I have it in the truck right now sitting on the passenger seat)
2) Should I replace the plugs while I'm at it with Autolite 5223s or 3923s? I currently have the Autolite 5224s
3) No one else said the cams caused the ping on their engines. I'm running a few mods, most notably 4" Z-Tube, 3" in, 2x2 1/4" exhaust, Mike Leach custom PCM flash, and now the HO cams. Could the advanced timing on the PCM be causing the ping? I had about 1/4 - 3/4 of a tank of 89 in my truck, which I then topped off with 91 octane and a can of 104 octane boost and it still "pings". Am I right to say that if the cams where off a tooth on the install, or one was off a tooth and one was right on, it wouldn't idle right or run smoothly?
Thanks again guys!
william
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Bob W
GenIII
9/04/2002
20:18:04
|  RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Timing and plugs would be a good place to start. I would talk to the Leach people and see if they can back it off a little.
Gibson headers, Gibson Cat-back, Edelbrock IAS shocks, K & N drop in, 180 stat, Jet stage II chip, ARE Lid
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
20:19:47
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
After playing with my truck for as long as I have...
All it takes to make it ping is for the little end cap to be loose on the spark plug. That's all it takes. You might be suprised by just changing the plugs and making sure that the end cap is on tightly.
Another thing that can cause pinging is if a single fuel injector is screwing up and flooding - the PCM will compensate by leaning out the entire engine.
I would put that new thermostat in there with a fresh set of plugs and see what it does.
As far as the cams being off.... the only possibility of one of them being off would be on the driver's side. The cam on the passenger side has a cam timing sensor. If that doesn't jive with the crank position sensor then you would get a mil light and code. I would say that you have them installed correctly if it runs good.
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/04/2002
23:51:37
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
I'd do the plugs and TS for sure.
I would go back and get an admission fee from the mechanics for the joy ride in the truck.(they had fun for a while)
Later,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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William Hiatt
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/05/2002
01:19:56
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Duner:
Do you have any other advice other than the plugs/thermostat? What thermostat/plugs are you running on yours?
Like I said on mine, I can just be rolling going about 40-50MPH, and just bump the throttle (Not causing it to downshift or anything) and it'll make the "pinging"/rattling-clacking type noise.
Also, why would it ping from just the cams?
Thanks!
william
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Ed Halterman
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
01:21:30
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Duner, you sound like "Da Man" here, I helped William put the cams in this weekend, mine pings as well, but in addition, mine starts losing steam about 4-4500rpm, and by 5200, it just falls flat and will not go any faster at all!! Any suggestions?? I do have the 180 stat with recent 5224's as well JET 2, Fastman 70mm t/b, Gibson 3" single, Airaid intake and t/b spacer. Removing Jet didn't change anything. 2K1 QC 4x4 4.7 falling flat
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Ed Halterman
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
01:37:18
|  RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Identical engines, identical cam swaps, identical probs (almost) Sigh............. :(
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/05/2002
04:52:05
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
do you both have the JUNK(JET) STAGE II installed?
Later,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
08:25:17
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Ed & William:
With the Mike Leach PCM, it is best to run the 180 thermostat (Robert Shaw is fine). The advanced timing from the PCM is creating great potential for pinging, even if it is not the direct cause. The Autolite 3923 plugs run cooler (one temp range cooler than the 5224's) and will also help on the pinging.
You two are the first 4.7 trucks I have heard of that ping, cams or not. I am having issues with my Leach flash, where mine falls flat on its face at 5500 (whereas it was pulling like a bastard all the way up to 5300 rpm). I am convinced that the rev limiter has not been fully removed, and I am taking steps to prove that before I send it back to Leach. However, after installing the cams, I can tell you that mine does not ping and I have almost the exact mods that you both have.....
William is correct in that if the cam sprockets were even one tooth off, it would not even idle worth a damn and the computer would've thrown a code almost immediately.
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cudashoe
DakotaEnthusiast
9/05/2002
09:53:12
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Alex- mine did too until I removed my cat. I easily pull to the limiter now.
2000 4.7 5- speed, 1989 Shelby #799 White
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
10:03:25
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
I've got no pre-cats and a carsound 3" cat with 3" pipe from the y-pipe all the way back.
This isn't a "running-out-of-power" feeling. This is a "fuel-isn't-getting-there-all-of-a-sudden" feeling. I just need a weekend to go to the dyno and get some A/F readings. I'd also like to rig up a fuel pressure guage to the rail and see what the pressure does when this thing gives it up at 5500.....
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cudashoe
DakotaEnthusiast
9/05/2002
10:11:16
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
Ok - I too develop a power loss at higher RPMs every so often. It is fixed by a bottle of the STP complete fuel system cleaner. Not the cheap stuff, but the $7 a bottle stuff. It really works for me. I put one in every 3000 miles. To me, as necessary as changing the oil.
I have the pre-cats still, well today only as I am installing the JBAs tonight. I am going true dual with no cats, and a Dr Gas crossover. Agin though, mine easily burys my 6000 RPM tach.
2000 4.7 5- speed, 1989 Shelby #799 White
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/05/2002
10:26:23
| RE: HO cams/MP PCM/Pingin
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Message:
I cleaned my injectors pretty thoroughly by removing them and then replacing them with Bosch 21# models from Bruce Holt at 5.0 Motorpsorts. Hahaha....
Did that with cam install about 750 miles ago....
Duner was running almost this same set-up prior to the turbo install and Matt Barrett is still running this same set up. Both of them can bury the tach liek you are doing and still have power all the way to 6000......
I'me pretty well convinced it's in the PCM. I just need to see the fuel pressure at 5500 and higher to confirm that.
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