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ron
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
15:57:31
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 Subject: 5-speed Swap
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I asked this about a year ago when I first got the dakota but I want to swap out the auto behind my 5.9 for a 5 speed. I'm at a point where I'm ready to do this now so I'm going start searching hardcore for answers.
It is my understanding that the 5-speed out of the 5.2 will bolt up.
I'm wondering if anyone has done this swap (either with a 5.9 or a 5.2) and knows all the different pieces I'll need to collect.
I can figure out most of the mechanical stuff. I'm thinking, right now, about the computer. Do I need to find a different computer? Or, do I have to have mine modified?
Thanks,
ron
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
16:17:57
|  RE: 5-speed Swap
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It depends on what year your truck is. I guess since it's an R/T, then OBD II may present some problems, but old 92 V-6 truck (OBD I) had a Mopar Performance computer in it that was for an automatic truck and my truck was a 5-spd. There were no problems there.
You may want to look Keisler Performance on the web. He is making kits that allow any Mopar anywhere anyhow to run a 5-spd manual tranny and he may be able to give you a few tips. I think all you'd need is a different flywheel, clutch assembly, pedal assembly, slave cylinder assembly, shifter and the hole in the floor. And of course the tranny. And the tranny mount may be different. Hmmmm.......
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
16:21:16
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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on the topic of the 5spd ... are there any bolt-ons out there that will allow the tranny to handle a little more torque?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
16:26:32
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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I dont' know of any bolt-ons for ANY manual trans for ANY function. But, you could always get rid of the NV-3500 and get a Tremec-3550 5-spd. That kinda bolts in, but it's pretty expensive.
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Vantage
GenIII
8/08/2002
16:55:39
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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There's a used NV3500 on Ebay right now if you're interested.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
17:05:19
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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alex,
what's the different between the NV- and the Tremec- ? couldn't a guy just swap out a few of the gears or bearings or whatever the weakest link is? What is the weakest link anyhow? the input shaft?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
17:28:24
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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First: I think you may need to read up on manual transmissions and how they work so that you will understand that it's nearly impossible to "just switch out a few gears" from one tranny to another.
Second: Some differences between the Tremec and the New Process 3500 are the gear ratios, the metals that the gears are cut from, the shifter mechanisms, the strength that each tranny is rated for, adn the fact that the shifter on the Tremec can be located in any of 3 different locations. There may actually be overall physical dimension differences.
Third: I'm not sure what the weakest link is in the NV-3500, but there seems to be some problems with the shifter pawls which are pieces that enable the shifter to "go into gear." Lots of people assume they have trashed their NV-3500 when they have actually just bent a shift fork or pawl. I have never personally heard of one just giving up the ship, and I have seen at least three NV-3500's survive behind some hi-horsepower applications.
The Gen II Dakota that is featured in this months' Mopar Muscle had a 5-spd behind a 408 motor that was running two stages of nitrous. That was making close to 600-650 hp and the axle housing broke before the tranny gave up.
I have a personal friend who used to own a 1995 Dakota that was capable of 11.6-second 1/4 mile times and her was running the 5-spd, as well. The axle gave up twice and the tranny was still living. This after several hundred launches that yielded 1.7 and 1.8 short times with drag slicks..........
The NV-3500 may be rated for 300 ft-lbs of torque, but I've seen it live behind a LOT more than that.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
17:51:50
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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alex,
First:
I've been around a few manual trannies, and have even rebuilt one outta my Stang. (The T-5's in them are also rated to only 300ft-lbs). And yes it was a matter of changing out the worn gears. I think first gear, the idler gear, 3rd gear and the synchos for 1st, 2nd and 3rd (I think you call them pawls .. but we may be talking about different things).
I was just curious if someone made stronger gears than that in the factory tranny ... maybe a stronger material, a better heat treating process, and some better, more accurate tolerancing and design on it. Afterall, they are a mass production unit and something has to be sacrificed in it.
Second:
Thanks, that's the info I was after
Also,
a standard safety factor in automotive drivetrains ranges from 1.5 to 3 or 4 depending on the component... so, I'd think that worst cast static torque, the tranny could handle at least 450 ft-lbs ... likely more though, given your testimonial.
Do you know where I could check out some specs on the Tremec?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2002
18:06:00
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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I'm surprised you have rebuilt the T-5 in yoru stang and aren't familiar with the Tremec. They are pretty much the first choice for Ford guys who are fed up with the T-5 that keeps on breaking.
Yeah, you can swap gears between the same tranny, but i'm not sure I'd go slipping Tremec gears into a New Process case. But I don't really know that stuff, either.
The pawls are not the synchros, they are part of the shifter rail mechanism that actually moves the shafts back & forth. They typically get bent on really hard power shifts and either strand the shifter in neutral or in a single gear. Then they won't let it go.
As for Tremec info... here's a start:
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/home/home.asp
http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/
http://www.stangnet.com/pbullitt/
http://user.icx.net/~skeisler/Mopar_new/Transmission/transmission.htm
Hope this helps.
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Vantage
GenIII
8/08/2002
18:11:37
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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The NV3500 may be rated at 300 ft-lbs, but that is at 7200 lbs GVW. So I have no doubt that it could stand up to those kind of numbers. The build sheet on my truck states that I have a "heavy duty" transmission. I'm assuming that means I have the NV3500HD which is rated at 340 lb-ft under the same conditions. Check out www.newventuregear.com. Any insight into this matter would be appriciated.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2002
12:09:45
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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ok thanks, I know what the pawls are now.
Thanks for the info on the Tremec. When I had my stang, I was in high school so I didn't have the money or know how to make big hp so I didn't really bother looking around for an alternative tranny. My goal now with the dak is to make some big hp though ... we'll see how that goes.
thanks again.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2002
12:49:39
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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I hear ya on big power. I have all these Tremec links because I definitely see one in my future. I'm looking to build a stone-dead reliable 408ci Gen II truck with a 5-spd stick. I think 500 hp naturally aspirated in a Club Cab should be pretty cool. It'll be a daily driver. That's the plan anyhow.
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Muzzy
GenIII
8/10/2002
07:42:10
|  RE: 5-speed Swap
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If you're really thinking about making some big horsepower then go with a Jerico trans. They are much stronger than the Tremec and you can configure them for your application. In fact your order it how you want it. It all comes down on how much you want to spend and what kind of horsepower you are looking to make.
http://www.jericoperformance.com/
-Muzzy
2001 EC Dakota 4x4 - 287ci V8 - 5 Speed - 3.92 gears/w Sure Grip
Borla Stainless Steel Headers - IAT Adjuster
Flowmaster Force II Cat Back - Ported TB/Custom Cold Air intake
H&K USC Security System
Coming Soon - head porting/ install HO cams & valve springs
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
14:35:59
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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I don't think Jerico offers a 5-spd/overdrive config and straight-cut gears are too noisy for the highway. Ever hear the in-car camera shot on NASCAR coverage? That's what a Jerico sounds like. I doubt I could handle driving with that to the beach 7 hours away.
But the Jerico thing has crossed my mind before.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
14:39:36
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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Okay- you got me there. The Jerico does come in a 5-spd, but those straight cut gears are just heinous noisy. And I don't really want to pay $5500 for a tranny when the motor will only cost me $6500. I'm trying to build the whole truck for $10,000. OUch.
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
17:24:28
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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Canucker,
Conscidering what Alex said about the pawls problem the best thing would be a new shifter with adjustable shift stops. The new shifter should also make shifts smoother keeping wear down on the gears. I aslo read in 4x4 magazines the the nv3500 was a favorite swap because of it strength.
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
17:59:32
|  RE: 5-speed Swap
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If you guys want the best I would have to be lenco st1200. It is a street version of thier race trans with 4, 5, or 6spd. It is made to handle up to 1300hp and more than 900 lb-ft of torque. They say the shift pressures can be adjusted for each gear to reduce or "increase" tire spin on shifts. One of the biggest pluses is that the trans' gear ratios work on multiplication. This means that the gear ratio for a gear is found by multipling it by the gears above it. The 4spd can have a 1st gear ratio as low as 3.375 or as high as 1.95 (gears offered are 1.25, 1.31, 1.44, and 1.50). A 3.375 1st gear comes from 1.50 1st x 1.50 2nd x 1.50 3rd= 3.375. The 5spd version has a 1st gear range from 5.06 to 2.44, and the 6spd ranges from 7.59! to 3.05. All of the tranmissions have a final gearing of 1:1.
So get off the line, forget the clutch and start pulling some levers for at starting price of $4,500!!!
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kota on 20s
GenIII
8/11/2002
21:30:52
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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if you are going to swap in a 5speed why stop there? get a T56 6speed that come in the vipers.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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blueballs
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2002
02:15:28
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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why not a 5 speed out of a 3/4 ram? They come with a 360. rather be cummin than stroken (diesel joke)
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2002
16:49:29
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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POWER HUNGRY,
who makes a shifter for the NV3500? I think Hurst makes one, but that's the only one I know of. Also, any links for the lenco st1200?
Kota,
What's the price diff. b/n the two? A viper 6 speed would definitely rock!
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kota on 20s
GenIII
8/12/2002
17:14:25
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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i have no idea what the price differance is, but it would be cool
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2002
19:32:39
|  RE: 5-speed Swap
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Canuker,
I never really looked for a shifter for the NV3500, I assumed they were out there (I have the piece of sh*t A518 auto). I know the adjustable stops on aftermarket shifter's in general keeps the driver from damaging many different parts in the trans.(synco, linkage, sliders and the gears themselfs) Just know looking for one I found this web site about an installation of the hurst shifter in a 2001 4.7 dakota. (http://www.intense99dak.com/v8shifter.htm)
I didn't get a chance to read it so I don't know exactly what it say but it might help. Also WWW.MRGASKET.COM has the hurst catalog online with a discription of what makes it an inprovement. Another web page with info on the hurst shifter ( http://www.dakota-truck.net/ARCHIVES/0101/2267.html)The part number is 391-0155. I think jegs and summit offer it.
The info. on the lenco I got from HOT ROD MAGAZINE issue may 1999. Thier web site is www.lencoracing.com and I just looked at it and they offer air shifters for the street trans! NOW THAT WOULD BE AN AWESOME RIDE!
I hope this helps a little, and good luck
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ctdak
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2002
10:43:49
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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Why not get a Richmond transmission. Those are the same transmissions in the Corvettes and Vipers. They come in 5 or 6 speeds, there light weight and can handle the power your looking for. A 5 speed is around $2000 new. I've seen rebuild viper trannies for $2000 on ebay.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2002
10:46:36
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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Well its nice to know there's a lot of options out there ... I'm not at all worried now about wrecking the stock tranny.
Now, if only I can make enough TQ to wreck it...
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2002
12:15:44
|  RE: 5-speed Swap
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The trans. in the viper and corvette is a t56 tremec not the richmond trans. The richmond is a nice option, it has a really low first gear available in the 4.5:1 zone.
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2002
10:53:28
|  RE: 5-speed Swap
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I have an 01 4.7 5spd.
I too have thought about the hurst install. Those are nice instructions at:
http://www.intense99dak.com/v8shifter.htm
However, it does talk about heating the shift lever with a torch and bending it to make it not hit the dash. That kinda sux, but I bet it's worth it.
I often grind third on really fast shift attemps. That can't be good for the gear.
I'll live with it for now, hell, I've got a QC, with the Trailer and tire Pack.
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ron
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2002
22:50:28
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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Wow...a guy posts and goes away for a week and looky what happens. You guys gave me a lot of good information. The first and most interesting to me is the Tremec...mainly because I have one! I've been sitting on one waiting to put it into my Mustang but it's got so many other issues that I just haven't gotten around to it. I'll have to look into a differnt bellhousing, I'm sure but if they make one, man, I'm 90% there.
Even if that doesn't work, thanks for all the info.
Oh, and unfortunately, I don't have an R/T but I'm set up just like one including the rims. It's a 99 sport club cab with the factory applied racing stripes. I love it so far, except for the automatic.
Thanks again.
ron
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ron
Dodge Dakota
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8/21/2002
15:58:32
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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Ok, according to Kieser's prices, I'm not really 90% of the way there...more like 45%. I don't think I need their whole kit. I'm going to look into just getting bellhousing...and maybe a custom driveshaft but the rest I can get a yard...I hope.
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MikeD
*R/T*
9/04/2002
20:29:13
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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What about a NV5600...its a 6-speed tranny out of a Ram. It says its rated for 550lbs. of torque. Its for sale on Ebay right now and its only at $99. Doesn't say how many miles is on it or why he's selling it though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1856480910
~Mike~
Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon
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kota on 20s
GenIII
9/04/2002
23:29:43
| RE: 5-speed Swap
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that is out of a deasel. 1st gear is WAAAAY low.. you would be better off using 2nd gear, but you would have to modify the floor pan to make it fit
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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