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Dakota Performance
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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
01:28:11
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 Subject: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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Has anyone on this board seen any flow figures for the 4.7L heads???
Cfm at .500 lift, etc.? Intake and exhaust??
Does anyone on here have a wrecked out Dak with a 4.7L in it that would be willing to send me a head to flow test and port and modify?
My friend is a pro head-porter and has his own Superflow sf-600 flowbench and he would be doing most of the work, with me giving input along the way... of course, he is extremely talented, much more than I am...
I would like to personally know if there is much room for improvement in the heads or if the design is limited...
I believe we can make a lot more HP with just ported heads, Ho intake, Ho cams....
If we could pick the intake cfm up 30-40 at around .300 lift and more, there would be substantial power gains in mid-range torque and high-rpm horsepower... Like 35-40 rwhp or more!!!
By the way... YOu know those 5.4L SC Ford Lightning trucks?? Their heads have 1.72 intakes and tiny exhausts... our 4.7s have a 1.89 intake and a 1.46 exhaust valve... plenty for the engine size really... but what if we unshrouded the valves in their semi-hemi chambers... what if we gave them a multi-angle back cut, and modified the seat as well.... on and on...
I don't think it hard to imagine that the 4.7L naturally aspirated could make 340-350 hp at the crank with the right tuning of the exhuast, intake, cylinder heads, cam profiles, and computer modifications...
The beautiful part about this is that there is no real danger of blowing the engine or melting pistons, because as long as you don't detonate under extreme pressure (like Nitrous or boost from a turbo or supercharger of any kind)... there is no way the engine will mechanically fail.
Keep the rpm limited to 6000 where it is at now from the factory... Also, since these engines have chain tensioners on the cam-drive chains, it makes sense that the heads could be milled a minor amount to bring compression up... I would have to see how much cc it took out of the chamber, but on most engines... around .030 cut off equals about 4-5cc reduction in chamber volume.. this would equal about .3-.6:1 compression increase from our 9.5:1 to about 9.8:1-10.1:1 compression... a marked increase for a minimal amount of head milling... this will bring efficiency up also...
This is going to take one or more of you guys sticking your neck out to me and my bud and telling the big guys like Hughes and KRC to kiss your A$$!!!!
I know you are all mopar people, and that sometimes means waiting till the big guys do something, then follow along behind... But I am now a mopar guy also, but I think a little different and want you to also.
I think that we could seriously be looking at a performance improvement of 50-60+ hp over stock if the heads are responsive to changes... This would be for a price around $500-$600 or so, for a completely ported and flow tested and performance valve job on your 4.7L head set.
Let hughes or KRC touch that with the improvement level and price... they won't....
This is also a point of warranty issues...
How many of you think that a supercharger shouldn't void your warranty?? (ok, all of you, lower your hands!!!)
--me to, but unfortuneately, it does (in most cases, it is a long drawn out battle if your engine pops and you are running a supercharger and you are trying to get the engine warrantied!--good luck!!!))
Whereas, with mods like ported heads, factory HO cams and intakes, computer mods..etc.... they really can't say anything about it... because if you don't over-rev the rotating assembly, or cause severe detonation under a load when using boost or nitrous.... you will never break a crank, whether it be forged (HO) or cast nodular (regular 4.7L); you will never break a rod if you don't over-rev it, you will never bust a piston if you don't push combustions temps and pressures higher than originally designed for our engines...
At the worst, with ported heads with higher compression and polished chambers... you might have to run mid-grade or supreme fuel...EEEEKKKK!!!!
But, you might not, depending on if the chamber is efficient enough to run on lower octanes...which it should be---(ever seen a head designed by Jim Feuling??) He uses super high compression and extreme amounts of swirl and quench in his chambers to keep detonation almost non-existant.. (12:1 compression stock short block and cam TBI fuel injected 454 chevy that runs on 87 octane and makes ~~400 hp... and can pull a load with 87 octane!!!
SO, to finally step down off my soap box...
I ask this... Does anyone on here want to spend less than $1,500.00 total to gain about 80-100hp+?? (includes ported heads, better intake, cold-air, exhaust mods, possible computer mods)and keep your warranty and dealer service man in complete confidence that you are not going to blow your engine (transmissions are a different issue, I would have to argue-!!!), especially since he can't see any mods besides the exhaust and the cold-air intake...
The truth is, these are the only things that really add power without sacrificing reliability... You can spend this much $$ on just bullcrap that doesn't make you go faster after a promise that it would... or you pick up .05 in the 1/4 mile (woo hoo)
This should make most any RC Dak 4.7L /5spd a mid-13 second truck with decent traction, and a mph approaching 99 or 100 wouldn't be unforseeable..
Think about it...
Drop me a line here if anyone is interested...
Or if you would like to donate a head to the cause... we have to start somewhere!!!
I have been trying for months to get a core engine from my supplier, but he has only come up with one engine, and he wants too much for it for just a core... He says these engines really don't seem to break much... they are very hard to find, even as dealer pull-outs for extreme oil use... can't say that about a Northstar or an LS1!!!
Thanks for reading my ramble... just thought someone might could help!!!
Later,
Ryan
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yates-in-de
GenIII
7/16/2002
01:41:37
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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Bud if I could get some heads here in Germany I would send them to ya. I am going to check with some family down Loisiana and Texas and see what they can come up with.
E-mail me your e-mail addy, and if I come up with something I will let you know
Thanks,
Lynn in Germany
'02 Flame Red CC, 4.7, 5 Speed, 3.92's, KB Optimizer II, IP Z-Tube w/7" S&B,[b] 3" Y-pipe back w/Flowmaster 50 Series,[b]Bell Tech 2"x4" Drop, Saddleman Soft Tonneau, RS 180 t-stat, Autolite 3923's,[b]Pirelli Scorpion Zero's 275/60-16's, Savin for the KB Twin Screw Super Charger
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TorqueMonster
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
01:45:30
| Why Bother?
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Man, yu 4.7 guys sure like to type! Is that all you talk about is horsepower? What about TORQUE? Unless it has pushrods it won't get out of its own way.
TORQUE RULES!
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
02:02:03
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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WTF are you smoking. I am pushing out well over 300lb's of TQ with my 4.7. (295lb's stock) The 5.9 only has 50 more lb's than that stock, and with it's low rpm's and auto trans it should have more than that to make up for the where it's lacking.
If you want reall TQ you shouldn't be looking at the 360 either. You should be on a diesl forum.
You keep telling youself "I have more torque" as our little cammers shift hard @ 5,500+ RPM and leave you sucking our tail pipes.
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yates-in-de
GenIII
7/16/2002
02:03:34
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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Torq Munster, I don,t know if you realize, but if the HORSE POWER goes up the torq must go up.
But most people are more interested in the engine’s horsepower. Horsepower is simply torque times rpm. That’s all. Way back, someone decided that one horsepower was the force needed to lift 550 pounds one foot in one second. But, using a dyno, horsepower is calculated by multiplying the torque by the given rpm and dividing by the constant factor 5252 (just so the number won’t be so big). Given this formula, any engine that makes 300 lb.-ft. of torque at 3000 rpm is generating 171 horsepower. Can’t be any other number. If it still makes 300 lb.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm, horsepower increases to 228 at that engine speed. See how this works? Given the formula, any mathematician knows horsepower and torque will be equal at 5252 rpm. Horsepower and torque are usually plotted as curves on the same graph. If these two lines do not cross at 5252 rpm on a given horsepower chart, the readings are bogus.
SEE, that means if I dyno more HP then I had to dyno more torq to get it. DOH!
Unless it's pushrod you want have anything to bend, or lag while the hydraulics catch up to the push, force applied by the cam, there fore causing the valves to lag and open only as much as the lifter is fresh, not getting full flow. WOW!
Lynn
'02 Flame Red CC, 4.7, 5 Speed, 3.92's, KB Optimizer II, IP Z-Tube w/7" S&B,[b] 3" Y-pipe back w/Flowmaster 50 Series,[b]Bell Tech 2"x4" Drop, Saddleman Soft Tonneau, RS 180 t-stat, Autolite 3923's,[b]Pirelli Scorpion Zero's 275/60-16's, Savin for the KB Twin Screw Super Charger
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
02:24:39
| Build One!
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Torquemuncher - just go away!
The stock 4.7 heads flow:
Intake 238 cfm @ .4" @ 28"
Exhaust 179 cfm @ .4" @ 28"
Nobody is just gonna have a set of these heads
laying around! If you are trying to go into the
head porting business, you should probably just go
ahead and buy a pair and use them for the 1st set.
You will want a set just to "play" with. I
believe I picked up about 25 hp and about 3 tenths
of a second by cleaning up some of the casting
flaws and doing some bowl work. The intake side
is pretty decent. The exhaust is what needs work.
The exhaust valve is terribly shrouded, but it's
not consistent from chamber to chamber.
I think the best way for you to drum up business
would be to build a mid-13 second NA 4.7 and show
it off!
Duner
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crm
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
11:06:15
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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Dan Arcand (the Fastman TB guy) was looking into porting some 4.7 heads. not sure if they were the stock or HO pieces though. said they flowed decent on top but terrible on the bottom end. dunno when he'll have something though...
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
11:07:33
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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I'd be interested but unfortunately my truck is my only vehicle.
I agree with duner to really get some business you need a demo truck, and if your not starting a business having a mid 13 NA truck would make you a guru like duner and matt barret. You know you would like people refering to your truck in the highest regard. lol
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
18:06:51
|  RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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TorqueMonster, Pushrods have nothing to do with torque output. Bore, Stroke and RPM. It has more to do with the ratio of bore to stroke. Long stroke engines make alot more low end torque but rev alot slower and produce less top end HP. Straight (inline) engines produce much better torq. then a V engine of the same displacement. The inline engine also has better harmonic. The only bad things with an inline engine with 6 or more cylinders is packageing and crankshaft flex.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
18:14:55
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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I do think we need to get a stroker kit put together...hell yes.
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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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7/17/2002
20:33:14
| RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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Thanks for your numbers Duner... I will have to see what this bench shows on the heads when I get some....
I am not trying to drum up business, GOD knows that we would all starve if we had to depend on DODGE people spending big money on something that MOPAR PERFORMANCE hasn't already done.... Your awesome Turbo kit is a good example Duner... The only reason I don't do it is b/c I don't have the funds available to me right now....TURBOS ROCK!!!!
I was merely offering the idea of the service up to those who think that head porting is supposed to cost $1,000 +.....
I would like to see what a well ported set of heads would do on your turbo truck Duner... I would think High 11's or faster....
If anyone knows of an engine that could be purchased whole for cheap, or a single head from a 2001 or 2002 4.7 (because they are supposed to be better...), please contact me via email or this board...
My email addy is psquaw@aol.com.... please don't share it with anyone or have me toasted... I only put this out there because I need help finding some of these heads and you guys are my eyes and ears around the country...
Thanks everyone!!!
Later,
Ryan
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CW
GenIII
7/19/2002
15:55:53
|  RE: Anybody seen any 4.7L head flow figures?
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Price out a HO from the dealer. They come pretty cheap.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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