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KCDak
GenIII
 
7/07/2002
09:35:01
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 Subject: I need serious help...
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Message:
Hey guys, I need your help. For the past week or so, I have been having problems with my truck overheating. Last summer I had put in a Robert Shaw 180 degree thermostat just to help things run a little smoother and to help remove some of the ping. Then about a week ago I drove the truck about 120 miles and it began to overheat. The needle would rise close to the upper operating level but not yet to redline. I stopped the truck at Wal-Mart did about 30 minutes of shopping, and when I started the truck back up to head home it ran perfectly fine. Well, I was getting ready to go on a canoe trip that weekend so I swapped out the 180 for the original 195 thermostat thinking that maybe the thermostat was sticking and also made sure that the fluids we topped off. I then drove it around for about 20 minutes and all was well.
Then we left for our trip. About 30 miles down the road the temp started to rise, but then all of a sudden it would drop back down to normal. Then a few minutes later it would rise again. It would go up and down repeatedly for the next hour (until the next town). At this point it never passed the upper operating line. We stopped to get gas and then let the truck cool for about 45 minutes. As we left the temp stayed perfectly fine for another 60 miles and then it started acting up again. This time it passed the line to almost redline, so I parked the truck and left with other friends. Then 2 days later we came back to get the truck. I filled the fluids back to normal since I had lost some from the overheating, and we left. We then made it all the way home without incident until the city limits (about 140 miles) and it started happening again. The temp would rise and fall repeatedly.
The next morning I took my truck to the dealership to have it looked at. They said that all seemed to be running fine. They didn’t have a way to drive it 100+ miles to get it to overheat. The only thing that they could come up with was that the radiator was dirty, and needed to be pulled from the truck and sprayed out from the back side ($200). I told them that that didn’t seem like it could be the problem considering how inconsistent the temp had been. I took the truck home and checked the fluids again, bled all air out, changed the oil, and cleaned the K&N and then drove it about 70 miles. No problems.
We then take a 30 minute trip and it all starts over. I am now to the point where I will be doing a full coolant flush, replacing the thermostat (again) and seeing if I can pull the radiator out to spray it from the backside.
Has anyone seen anything like this? Any suggestions? Would a dirty radiator actually cause this? There doesn’t seem to be any leaking hoses, the water flows, the temp sensor is working. What could this be?
Thanks for all your help,
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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yates-in-de
GenIII
7/07/2002
09:55:27
|  RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Sounds like the fan clutch is going bad, or the t-stat is hanging, but i doubt that the t-stat is hanging. Another possible cause is the bottom (in-side) radiator hose is colapseing when it gets really warm. If this is the case then there's a blockage in the radiator. Most lower hose's have a large spring in them to prevent this. I have seen them colapse even with the spring. I suggest the fan-clutch check first.
Good Luck,
Lynn
'02 Flame Red CC, 4.7, 5 Speed, 3.92's, KB Optimizer II, IP Z-Tube w/7" S&B,[b] 3" Y-pipe back w/Flowmaster 50 Series,[b]Bell Tech 2"x4" Drop, Saddleman Soft Tonneau, RS 180 t-stat, Autolite 3923's,[b]Pirelli Scorpion Zero's 275/60-16's, Savin for the KB Twin Screw Super Charger
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/07/2002
09:57:33
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Yes...I had the same problem. 98 V6 CC, 180 T-Stat. I changed the antifreeze the same time I changed the thermostat.
The one thing that I did not change was the radiator cap. Drove the truck 130 miles to visit some friends one weekend and my truck was doing the same thing yours was. Stopped at Auto Zone on the way to our friends house and grabbed a radiator cap and when we got ready to leave, just swapped the cap. Drove the truck back home and didn't have a problem.
Hope this helps you.
Mark
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KCDak
GenIII
7/07/2002
10:01:21
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
I will swap the cap out when I do the flush and t-stat. How can I check the fan clutch. I'm not finding anything in the FSM about it. I also have an electric fan, and both are running. If the fan clutch went out would the fan still run?
Thanks again,
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/07/2002
10:10:23
| RE: I need serious help...
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If you have an electric fan then you won't have a fan clutch.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong here, but on vehicles with electric fans, there is no other fan.
A clutch fan would take the place of the electric fan. A clutch type fan is attached to the water pump, in most cases, and is driven by the serpentine belt when the engine is running.
Since you stated you have an electric fan, then don't bother to look for your clutch fan as you won't have one.
Mark
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KCDak
GenIII
7/07/2002
10:13:52
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Actually I have both fans. There is one belt driven fan, and also an electric fan between that fan and the radiator.
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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Graphite
*GenIII*
7/07/2002
10:15:03
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
I have 2 2002 daks and both have clutch fans and electric fans. Does your truck have both 98flamerddak?
Sponge bob square pants who lives in a pineapple under the sea.(R)
2002 graphite /silver
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/07/2002
10:22:24
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Well, I am glad someone corrected me. Perhaps I might check out my local dealer and see for myself. I have never seen a vehicle, to this day anyway, that had both.
On my 98 Dak, with V6, I only have the clutch type fan. This was from the factory. Someday I might get around to taking the clutch type off and going electric....
Thanks for setting me straight...
Mark
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DakotaDan
*GenIII*
7/07/2002
10:23:58
|  RE: I need serious help...
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Jason
This is the way my Manual tells to check the clutch for a V6 & V8 Engines
1 Disconnect the cable from the negative terminal of the battery and rock the fan back and forth by hand to check for excessive bearing play.
2. With the engine cold (and not running), turn the fan blades by hand. The fan should turn freely.
3. Visually inspect for substantial fluid leakage from the clutch assembly. If problems are noted, replace the clutch assembly.
4. With the engine completely warmed up, turn off the ignition switch and disconnect the negative battery cable from the battery. Turn the fan by hand. Some drag should be evident. If the fan turns easily, replace the fan clutch
Dan
K&N FIPK # 57-1517 * DynoMax #17748
OEM 5.2/5.9 V8 TB #53032691AA * Crower 1.7 Roller Rockers # 73654K
Factory Flares * WeatherTechs * Saddleman Low Profile Tonneau
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Graphite
*GenIII*
7/07/2002
10:25:19
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
This is my first two with both fans also. I have had a 92,94,97,and a 99 with only one fan. I am not sure why they changed it. Maybe to give us a way to get some more hp by removing it?
Sponge bob square pants who lives in a pineapple under the sea.(R)
2002 graphite /silver
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/07/2002
10:31:42
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
I guess I don't see the logic in having both types of fans. Since there is an electric fan installed all ready, why the need for the clutch type? I would personally remove the clutch fan and leave the electric fan. Not only would you gain some horsepower, however minor it might be, by removing the clutch fan, but I can't see how the 2 fans work in conjunction with one another.
On my 98 I have this huge shroud that sits in front of the radiator. By going electric, I can remove this and loose the clutch and open up the front some.
Besides that, aren't electric fans suppose to cool an engine faster since they run at higher speeds?
Mark
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DakotaDan
*GenIII*
7/07/2002
10:33:08
| RE: I need serious help...
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The only time I have ever heard my Elc. one kick in was when the AC was on.
Dan
K&N FIPK # 57-1517 * DynoMax #17748
OEM 5.2/5.9 V8 TB #53032691AA * Crower 1.7 Roller Rockers # 73654K
Factory Flares * WeatherTechs * Saddleman Low Profile Tonneau
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DakotaDan
*GenIII*
7/07/2002
11:03:39
| RE: I need serious help...
IP: Logged
Message:
>I guess I don't see the logic in having both types of fans.
Mark
I can't find the article I read it in but the main reason that trucks keep using clutch fans is they are towing vehicles, and the clutch is more practical than a Elc. fan . I guess if the clutch goes out you still have some cooling, but if you only had the Elc. and it goes out your SOL.
Dan
K&N FIPK # 57-1517 * DynoMax #17748
OEM 5.2/5.9 V8 TB #53032691AA * Crower 1.7 Roller Rockers # 73654K
Factory Flares * WeatherTechs * Saddleman Low Profile Tonneau
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Gary F
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/07/2002
16:13:35
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
I also have both the electric and clutch fan. It seems to be that if you have air conditioning or the heavy duty cooling that you have both fans. The electric fan only comes on with the a/c running.
Gary F
2001 reg cab, 4X2, 4.7L, 5 spd, 3.92LS
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KCDak
GenIII
7/08/2002
16:41:37
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Well here is how today has gone. This morning, I went and got the stuff to flush my cooling system and also got a new radiator cap. When I got home I started the radiator draining while I removed the upper and lower fan shrouds. Once these were removed, I sprayed out the radiator from the backside the best I could, however, I did not remove the electric fan so I sprayed around and through that the best I could. Next I removed the 195 t-stat and then ran lots of fresh cold water through the system with the t-stat out and the radiator drain open. I then put the Robert Shaw 180 t-stat back in that I had removed about a week or so ago. I put the fan shrouds back together, and then did a chemical flush on the system. After that was complete, I did a back flush to make sure that everything was well cleaned out (I know, probably overkill). I then filled the system with fresh 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water, added a new radiator cap, and then finished by driving it about 5 miles. When I got back, I bled any air that was in the system, topped off the coolant, and then drove it about 25 miles. I came home, ate lunch, and then went for a 100-mile drive to fully test it. The first 85 miles or so was completely highway miles at about 70-75 mph and the engine seemed to run perfect. The outside temp here is around 95 degrees with relatively high humidity. For the most part it ran around 195-205. Once I exited the highway and was stopped at a stoplight I noticed that the temp started to rise to around 240 or so. I turned off the A/C and turned on the heat. That seemed to help. The temp came back down around 210. I turned the A/C back on and the temp rose once again. I then left the heater on for another few miles while driving through neighborhoods and then temp would rise again. This time I turned the A/C back on and the temp dropped, but not by much (still above 210). I turned the heat on one last time and there was no heat coming from the system and the temp didn’t fluctuate. When I pulled in my driveway, I turned the A/C back on and set there for a couple of minutes and the temp just stayed right around 240. Any ideas? None of the hoses seem to have collapsed. I can’t find any leaks, however when the engine cools off and I open the radiator cap, it appears that I need to add more coolant. . Is that normal, or should it be full to the cap? What should I try next?
Thanks for all your help,
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
16:56:36
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Sounds like you blew a head gasket--- check your oil, and also check your plugs. You are probably seeping water/coolant into the intake/oil system.
Sam
www.socaldakotac.com
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MikeW
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
17:07:28
| RE: I need serious help...
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Did you follow the refill procedure for the 4.7? To get trapped air out you must open the bleed valve when you refill.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
17:08:39
|  RE: I need serious help...
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From the 2000 Factory Service Manual
REFILLING THE 4.7 ENGINE
1. Tighten the radiator draincock and cylinder block drain plugs (if removed).
2. Fill system using a 50/50 mix of ethylene-glycol antifreeze and low mineral content water.
3. Fill coolant reservoir to FULL mark.
4. Install radiator cap and reservoir cap.
5. Start engine and run at 3000 rpm for 10 seconds.
6. Shut off engine.
7. Remove radiator cap.
8. Fill radiator to full level.
9. Install radiator cap.
CAUTION: Failure to follow the procedure outlined above can result in engine overheating conditions and severe damage to the engine.
Don't know if this helps.......
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MikeW
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
17:19:31
| RE: I need serious help...
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Hmmm... The 1999 jeep 4.7 factory service procedure is slightly different. Is there no bleed plug on the Dodge 4.7?
Refilling cooling system...
1) Tighten the radiator draincock and cylinder block drain plugs.
2) Remove the pipe plug labeled COOLANT BLEED.
3) Fill the system with 50/50 mixture of ethylene-glycol antifreeze and LOW mineral content water. Fill radiator until coolant starts to come out of coolant bleed bore then install plug.
4) Fill coolant reservoir to FULL mark.
5) Install radiator cap and reservoir cap.
6) Start engine and run at 3000 RPM for 10 seconds.
7) Shut engine off
8) Remove radiator cap and bleed plug.
9) Repeat step 3.
10) Apply Mopar Thread Sealant to the bleed plug and install.
11) Install radiator cap.
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KCDak
GenIII
7/08/2002
17:35:32
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Yes, I followed the FSM to a tee. And yes, it does have a coolant bleed and it was bled. As for the head gasket, and checking oil, I changed the oil last week after all this started happening, and the oil appeared fine (no water). If the head gasket was blown, wouldn't I see white smoke from the exhaust? When I check my plugs what would I be looking for specifically?
Thanks for your help,
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
18:50:55
| RE: I need serious help...
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I would have to say that after you have done all that you either have a bad water pump or a faulty temp sensor.
You stated that you had no heat....so this leads me to wonder about your water pump...
Mark
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KCDak
GenIII
7/08/2002
18:56:51
| RE: I need serious help...
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Well, I think that the temp sensor is the next thing on my list. Then the water pump may be the next thing that I look at. Is there any way to tell if the pump is bad? When I have the cap off, I can actually see the coolant moving when it gets up to temp.
Thanks,
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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Paul B.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
23:35:41
| RE: I need serious help...
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It is possible to have the head gasket start to go bad and not leak any coolant into the oil. What's possibly happening is that combustion pressure from one of the cylinders is getting into the cooling system and causing pockets of air to develop in the cooling system which will cause hot spots and intermitent overheating problems. The reason that you didn't have any heat was possibly because an air pocket had gotten trapped in the heater core. How many miles is on the engine? Was the coolant you removed discolored or rusty? If it was fairly clean, I don't think you have a water pump problem. the only things that can go wrong with the water pump is a slipping impeller(which would overheat all the time), or the impeller blades rusting away. So if your coolant was clean, I don't think thats the problem. I've been a tech for almost 30 years and have a '00 4.7 Dakota myself, and I work in a Ford dealership! That's my take on your overheating problem. Good luck on getting things straightened out.
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KCDak
GenIII
7/09/2002
09:10:19
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Pual,
I went back to the dealersip this morning and they truly believe that there is just too much buildup in the radiator coils. Could that actually be the problem? I currently have 60k miles on the truck and they are almost completely street miles. Very little back roads or off-roading. I'm going to clean the radiator with a high-pressure sprayer this morning and see if that helps with anything. Then I'm going to go back and work with the dealership some more. So far they have been good to me, so I don't have a reason to believe that they are jerking me around. At least not yet.
Thanks,
Jason
'00 Sport Quad 4.7L 4x4 3.55, Autolite 3923's, BFG AT T/A,
IAT Adjuster, 360° Air Intakez, Robert Shaw 180° thermostat,
Line-X sprayed bed and nerf bars, Roll-n-Lock tonneau
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
11:18:28
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Quick tip on the plugs. If water/coolant is getting by the head gasket into the combustion chamber you'll know looking at the plugs. If a leak is present the plug will be abolutely spotless, almost brand new/out of the box look. The water/collant flashes to steam in the combustion chamber and removes ALL carbon/soot/oil/grime/you name it, from the plug. That's if water/coolant is getting in. Normal plugs means no water/coolant getting in. That doesn't mean though that oil couldn't be getting into the coolant system. But if the coolant isn't dark/dirty/brown then the head gaskets are fine.
That's my experience.
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Paul B.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
23:25:35
| RE: I need serious help...
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Message:
Jason,
It is possible that if there is a lot of debis on the outside of the radiator cooling fins, air can't get through so you have no heat transfer. Pressure wash it and see what happens. Always try the simple things first. There used to be an over the counter test kit to see if there was combustion gases in the coolant. Check in some auto supply stores to see if they're still available.
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SlowDak
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
23:37:14
| RE: I need serious help...
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I had an Accord previously that did the same thing as your truck, after 2 weeks of messing with it, it ended up being the water pump, might want to give it a shot
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
7/10/2002
00:18:15
| RE: I need serious help...
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I don't know about the Daks but this is a sure fire way to trace the cause of overheating.
1.) Punch several holes in your thermostat (they're cheap)
2.) keep the cap off your radiator
If you see the coolant swirling around you know your waterpump works.
Run it for a while if it doesn't over heat it was your thermostat if it does its your radiator.
If you havw a 180 t-stat ther is nooooway that you should get over 200 degreees.
Q
I swear at least three time in a pontiac lemans an old ford pick-up and a ford fiesta my but was saved by taking a screwdriver to the thermostat.
Q
Dr.Q
'01 Patriot Blue SLT RC 4.7 5sp 3.92 pegleg
0-60 @ 6.20sec.
1/4mi @ 14.75@97.1
Home Brew Airbox
K&N Drop In
Lakewood Traction Bars
Dremel TB Port and Polish
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