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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
00:24:19
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 Subject: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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PCM UPGRADE!!!
I just have to make this post seeing as so many 4.7 owners are spending $400+ to buy a new throttle body when for the same money you can have your PCM done. The PCM reflashes TOTALLY blow away the bigger TBs. ASE dynoed 26 more hp from their upgrade. The 70 and 72 TB cant give you have of that!!!! Plus they have many bad side effects(idle, vibration) where as a PCM upgrade has NONE!!!!
Now the benifits.
1. raises timing for more power and PERFECT IDLE. Yes PERFECT IDLE. My 4.7 5 speed idles at 650 perfectly all day and when I turn on the A/C it jumps to about 690. Never stalls or jumps at idle!
2. raise limiters. My Mike Leach flash raised my speed limiter to 210 and my rpms to 6500 but he can go to 8500. The ASE flash wont get that radical though.
3. perfect off-idle response. The 4.7s lag a bit if you punch it. Not at all with a PCM upgrade.
4. INCREASED gas milage. I gained 3 mpg on trips!! I got 22mpg last week when I drove to Tenn. with the cruise on 80!
The difference after my upgrade was noticed immediatly. After I drove for 50 miles and the PCM learned my truck, it was like I got a bigger engine!!!
Now I had mine done by Mike Leach co. They can only do the 2000s though do to a code change on the PCMs. www.asechips.com can do it on any year 4.7 for $350.
Ask anyone who has had one done. They swear by it!!
So please dont spend the bucks on a TB UNTIL you get your PCM done. You wont regret it!!
It is the "key" to 4.7 performance.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
00:42:09
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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also a little about my truck.
2000 RC 4.7 5 Speed, 3.92 sure grip , Leach PCM, IAT adjuster, TPS .75, Intense Performance Z-tube , Hurst Stick, AAR Cuda hood, MBRP w/ Cuda tips, Hard tonue cover, 16" Goodyears, Full Hotchkis, Stillen crossed-drilled rotors. Intense Blue.
I tried a bigger TB and I lost major bottom end and I lost my smooth idle and throttle response. (Yes I reset my PCM and drove it for over 500 miles to allow the PCM to re-learn)I know they are supposed to help quarter mile times, but I will put my STOCK 65mm TB against ANY bigger 4.7TB when it comes to 0-60 times. When it comes to stoplight to stoplight action, nothing beats an UNPORTED 65mm TB. Why you say? Because they produce more air velocity. The bigger TBs allow for more air, but they slow it down so you loose low end. The PCM upgrade INCREASES low end a bunch!!
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
01:18:49
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Mike Leach can only do 2000's? I've heard they're a waste of money, are you a salesman for these guys or something?
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
01:25:43
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Anybody who sais they are a waste of money is NUTS!!! Now I am only talking about the 4.7. I cannot state how effective his flashhes are for other engines. Agian he can only do the 2000 4.7 in the Dakotas but I think he can do the 1999 4.7s in the Jeeps.
No I am not a salesman. I have read MANY requests about 4.7 modifications and just thought I would add my 2 cents. IT WORKS PERIOD.
I CHALLENGE ANYONE WHO HAS HAD A LEACH PCM UPGRADE TO SAY IT WAS A WASTE OF MONEY!! Or a ASE upgrade as well. Again we are discussing the 4.7 ONLY.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
01:39:26
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I'm with ya on the 4.7L that's all I care about (That's what I own) Now why can ASE do all the 4.7L's but Mike Leach can only do the 2000's? I guess my next question is will the flash on a 2000 be comparable to a flash on a 2002?
I have a h-brew intake and a really free flowing exhaust, this has caused my power band to become much higher. (that's when I need the power) I also plan on going with the fastmans 71mm TB. for added power in the higher R's. Can ASE work with this, can they...... make my 4.7L any better than they could with a stock 4.7L, because of my mods?
thanks for your input, this will have to be something to look into.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
01:53:43
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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My understanding is that Mike Leach co. actually re-programs the PCMs. To prevent this, Dodge changed the computer codes to block outside changing of their PCMs for emmission reasons. ASE "chips" the PCMs instead of actually reprogramming but they still get basically the same results. I think they add a chip inside your PCM but I'm not sure. Now you have to send your PCM away either way you go. The ASE chip is nothing like the Jet plug-in stuff that has little, if any improvements.
PCM upgrade helps your motor throughout the powerband, not just a higher RPMS. The basic element of one is the fact that they RAISE INGNITION TIMING. The 4.7s timing is so retarted stock for emmissions. This hurts power at any RPM.
Getting your timing raised will help you more than any other mod. (except for a super charger but I'm talking under $500)
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
01:58:47
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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this will void my warranty won't it?
that'll probly be the only thing holding me back other than then money and having to send in my pcm
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
02:15:25
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I dont know but they have no way of finding out. I know that they can void the warrenty on the motor if you have an aftermarket TB. That billett TB is hard to miss. They would never notice a stock TB that has been ported.
Yes its not cheap getting your PCM done. My argument is though if you got the dough for the TB, you should get your PCM done first.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
02:16:53
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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ALSO - Kenne-Bell does 4.7 PCMs with EXCELLENT results. Ask Conig about his.
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John925
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
05:46:42
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I have a Question..........
My 2001 Dakota got hit in the front end and I took it to the dealer to get fixed...
and now it says authorized software update on the computer.....do you think they changed anything?
It is a 2001 CC 4.7 Auto 3.55 LS and the g-tech on a very flat road tonight read:
0-60 ---- 6.54 Sec on the 1st run
Is this common with other people?
I have a Volant Air Intake , no 3rd Cat ,
180 Deg. T-Stat , Relocated IAT ,
TPS @ 7.6 Volts , And
Flowmaster 40 Series 2 1/2 In/Out In
Place where the stock was with
custom turndown on it.
Are others getting similar times?
on auto's or manuals?
I would appreciate any input.....thanks
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John925
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
05:53:56
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Oh yeah, and these cheezy Autolite 5224's
the 3923s seemed to hurt me,
I also used to have a TB Spacer but that whistle wasn't happening , besides I think it actually took a couple hp away, due to the hole is actually a bit smaller than the TB plus it had a hole than a small hole in the corner instead of completly open.
Anyway , please let me know some times of other trucks....
Even 5.9's but especially 4.7's!
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yates-in-DE
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
08:52:48
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Kenne Bell Optimizer II for the 2002. All I can say is WOW. Live in Germany no speed limit on the Auto-Bahn. Hurt there feelings all the time.
02 Flame Red, Kenne Bell Optimizer II, Z-tube w/7" Cone, Y-pipe back 3" exhaust w/Flowmaster, ground Forces 2" x 2" drop, Soft Tanue, Robert Shaw 180 TS
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
6/07/2002
09:54:23
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I wasn't aware that there was an optimizer for the 2002 model 4.7L. That really is a good thing. Can't wait to purchase that.
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cb
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
23:13:43
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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What is Mike Leaches phone number and when to call? I can not seem to find it.
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PimpDaddy
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2002
23:20:40
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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The best mod for $500 is...a ho off da street in da front seat a case of shlitz and a key to the motel
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D
Dodge Dakota
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6/08/2002
00:27:42
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Mike Leach: (714) 639-5220
I have an 01 4.7, would the kenne bell
optimizer flash be the best way to go, the ASE
sounds good, but sounds like another plug in
gimmick...and where/how do I get the flash
done????
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/08/2002
00:46:05
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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The ASE is better than the Jet from all accounts. Here is a link to a guy that got his done by ASE back in FEB. Read the ThomasStuartJr. posts. He seems VERY happy with his.
I believe the PCM flash/chip/reprogram has more effect for the 4.7s than ANY other Chrysler engine.
http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46489&perpage=15&pagenumber=6
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
00:11:24
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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the kenne-bell will work for the 2002 daks. just for the record It says you have to run 93 octane but I run 87 in florida heat with no problems. the only pet peave I have is kenne-bell will not remove your speed limiter if its 98mph. how ever a quick switch in line to the abs fuse eliminates my limiter.
I'm currently talking to kennebell about making my pcm even more aggresive for 93octane with a booster, and trying to take a set of h.o. cams into the tuning parameters. they say theres not much they can do to tune a speed density system. They sell a mass-air conversion I might try if it will inprove hp and isn't to expensive.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
08:17:42
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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hey conig, you talking about a s/c or turbo when you say booster?
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R.L.Stuart
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
11:11:42
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I had the ASE installed sometime ago,The base line dyno was 178 RWHP with the ASE installed it jumped up to 194 RWHP,my MPG went up about 1 1/2 to 2 mpg,I did run 192 gas but im back to Reg now still runs great.When the dealer hooks up to the PCM they don't know it's there and you can't flash over it,Just had the IDLE flash and trans shift flash and she will still smoke them out of the hole{not that i want to do that}and our last Dyno run it 140mph on the Dyno(ASK MARTY} I love
the ASE but it's up to you!!!!
2001CC 4.7L Auto 45RFE 355 Gear
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D
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
12:57:26
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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thanx RL, those dyno numbers are pretty
impressive for the ASE, what is the idle flash,
and the trans shift flash?? is it performed by
the dealer if you have a rough trans and/or
idle????
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
13:43:32
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Yes thanks for the numbers. Now what are the throttlebody numbers? Anyone have these?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
14:35:54
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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No dyno numbers on my 70 mm TB, but my 2000 4.7 ClubCab 5-spd with 3.55 posi went from a best of 15.38 to a best of 15.22 with just the throttlebody added. I already had a Volant cold-air tube, a Dynomax 3" exhaust, traction bars and synthetic fluids throughout. A .16 gain is a pretty good gain.
Maybe $400 is too much to pay for only .16, but I bet you that the rest of my mods will end up being held back by that wee-wee 65mm TB. I have taken off my clutch fan to run a 15.18 and I have just installed a 3" cat and pipe from the y-pipe to the head of the dynomax kit. I have yet to go to the track with that but it is a HUGE gain that can only be accentuated by the 70 mm TB. Maybe a 14.9 is in store?
From here it's the HO cams, HO intake, PCM flash. The 65mm can be bored out or just polished to removed the torque lip, but this 70 mm has been and will definitely be a big help with my existing and future mods. I think you won't see as much by adding the TB early in the process. Once you get some flow-dependant mods in place, you will see a much larger gain by adding the bigger TB at that point.
Just my 15.18 sec worth.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
17:05:11
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I also have removed 3rd cat so I flow real good. I added a bigger TB but the gains werent even clost to the PCM reflash.
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
19:42:03
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Hey cudashoe---
Having an aftermarket TB won't void your warranty. It can only void the warranty of the original TB... Nothing else. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have any aftermarket companies still in business---
Thank SEMA for keeping the door open.
If anything, removing any of your CATs would be a bigger red flag to a dealership. By completely removing a polution controlled device, you are more likely to get tagged for that over a simple bolt on.
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
23:13:49
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Yes they can void your ENGINE warrenty if you have an aftermarket TB. The confusion is over the WHOLE warrenty.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
23:24:35
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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To say that the 65mm TB is "wee wee" is a comment that is totaly mis-informed. The 65 is MORE than adequate for the 4.7s. Think about it. The 4.7 is 20% smaller than the 5.9, but has a 30% bigger TB.
Bottom line -65MM produces a FASTER flow than the 70mm.
My 4.7 makes power through 6000 rpms EASILY! I bury my tach and shift. Did I mention Perfect idle?
Oh yea 0 to 60 in 5.92 sec. 14.57@ 99mph, on my g-tech last night.
Sorry, but face facts. You dont get halve the gains from a bigger TB that you get from a PCM upgrade at the same money. I guess that billet makes your motor look good though.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2002
23:32:04
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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One more thing... I checked out your site Sam and found your argument about 50mm vs. the 52mm for the 5.9s/5.2s. This backs up what I'm saying about bigger TB can actually hurt performance.
http://www.socaldakota.com/tbfaq.htm
Oh and WHERE are the 70 and 72 Dyno numbers???
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:15:18
| WeeeWeeeWeeeee......
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1.) Where are YOUR dyno numbers? Screw ASE's 26 hp.... I want to see YOUR dyno graph that says that you are still making good horsepower past 5500 rpm.
2.) G-Tech numbers are crap. Get to a dyno and then a drag strip. Then we'll talk.
3.) The billet makes the motor look good, but you can only see 2" of billet before the blue connector hose covers the rest of it up. Whatever.
4.) Keep your super-velocity 65 mm TB and I'll keep my 70 mm TB. We'll agree to disagree. I still don't understand why you're so adamant about preventing everyone from buying a throttlebody. Is this some sort of mission?
5.) My TB was free, so I think the gains for the money I paid are pretty damn nice.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:17:33
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Here's a similar arguement to yours....
A turbo kit is the single most effective horsepower and torque mod you can perform on a 4.7 motor. There's not a PCM upgrade anywhere in the world that will double your horsepower by itself. You are wasting your money on PCM's when you should just install a turbocharger.
Now let's argue about THAT, eh?
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crm
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:29:29
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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isnt the TB on the 5.2/5.9 a 2 bbl? i dunno the exact math, but it seems that 2 inlets at 50mm is gonna be bigger than one at 65mm.
and i think the 50 vs. 52mm argument is more about having way too much rather than an indictment for a better flowing, larger than stock setup.
and no, replacing your TB will NOT void your engine warranty, only the warranty on the original TB.
cudashoe - you are obviously not getting any converts, and no one here wants to waste the time to convert you, so calm down a bit.
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