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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:42:17
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 Subject: RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I say - buy every mod available and take it to the track!
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:52:11
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Apparently, we should NOT buy the 70 mm Tb. It's just going to hurt our power because it's just too big.
But I am going to buy every other mod I can find....
Hahahahahaaaa
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:57:02
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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PS- Why is everybody so damn worried about the warranty? Mine expired like 15,000 miles ago. Seems to me everybody that goes to the dealer and gets their truck worked on under warranty gets their PCM reburned without their prior knowledge and that just sets you back at square one anyhow. I'd just as soon go soemwhere else if I can't fix it myself.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
17:17:18
| Yeah, Warranty Work...
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I thought my turbo was making a kinda funny sound last weekend while I was racing it. Right about 6500 rpms it sounded kinda strange as I banged thru the gears. Or maybe it was the aftermarket TB or my PCM or maybe the aftermarket cat. I better run it right up to my dealer and let them do some warranty work. Gee, I hope they don't go and check my fuel again! Hahahahaha They voided my warranty many thousands of miles ago because they found out I had an IAT Adjustor! ROTLMFAO!!!!!!
I think I SHOULD take it in to my dealer for an express oil change.... just to see what kinda crap they'd give me about it. I think it would be funny when they guy came walking out with the K&N filter in his hand that was pristine and tries to tell me that it needs replacing because according to their records it's been in the truck for the last 40K miles....
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
17:32:59
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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we're worried about the warranty, because we're obviously still covered by it.
you buy a new chip, (ASE or whatever) a year goes by, no problems. One day your cruising down the road with the family and truck just dies on ya. you take the truck to the dealer. Dealer sees you modded the computer. Now instead of that $350 for 25 hp. It's $350 + now you have to replace the computer yourself. What's a computer CW? like $3-400??? (just guessing) Plus now, you have a computer without a chip.
This is just a "what if" Your past your warranty, who cares now. But the ones who are worried, do you actually think they have the same miles as you??? We have newer trucks, and included into the price of that truck is a warranty.
Warranty = free fix
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
18:00:17
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I have 47,000 miles on my truck and it hasn't died yet. It just keeps getting faster......
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
18:28:01
| Sorry....
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I didn't mean to sound insensitive about the warranty issues. I looked at it this way. I refuse to let the service manager at my local dealership be the deciding factor in whether I get full enjoyment out of my vehicle. If I had to wait for it to be an old truck before I modded it (3 yrs or 36K), and thus be out of the warranty, I wouldn't even bother starting with a newer vehicle. Besides the fact that the warranty is for manufacturer's defects. Warranty = Free Fix only if it's something that can't be broken by abuse! Other than the electrical system or fit and finish items, there's very little in my truck that isn't effected by my quest for horsepower or the use of it. If something breaks - it's usually related to my heavy right foot. If I broke it? - I am willing to accept responsibility for it and fix it on my own nickel.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
18:48:49
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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The point of the post Alex is to quiet these claims the the TB is the "key" to 4.7 performance.
FACTS from KRC site. The 70mm TB PLUS the Airaid PLUS the exhaust adds only 10 HP!!!!!
The ASE adds over 25 hp for a lot less money.
How much does a 70 MM add WITHOUT the intake and exaust??? NOT MUCH!!! And the proof is in KRCs own figures.
Oh and Alex, the post is "under $500.." The turbos are far more than that.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
18:54:29
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I may have worded my last post wrong. I'm glad to see you guys jumping out and doing mods. It lets others know what works and what doesn't. I was just tring to explain to alex why some of us do worry about our warranty. I have mods myself.
If I could afford to fix a blown trans or a new engine I'd probly go mod crazy too, but for now paying $440 / month, then $2,000 per year for insurance, and another $200 in gas each month, I can't afford another fixit bill.
all_about_power.tripod.com
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CW
GenIII
6/11/2002
19:37:55
|  RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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$450 for a computer last time I heard. Still think I am going to do the icon controller and maybe a split second fuel controller. Complete adjustability no sending it back to be reprogrammed to suit other mods. I think it can be removed from the vehicle and programed but I am not sure. I will use my laptop.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
20:55:17
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Geez... all I did was try to clarify an issue re: a TB cannot void your entire warranty.
Now I'm getting attacked...
The information re: 5.2/5.9L with 50 vs 52mm is COMPLETELY different to the 68/70/72mm. First thing, a LOT of different factors are in place for the 5.2/5.9 crowd (Stock manifold? Modified Stock manifold? M1-2bbl? M1-4bbl?) Then the general complete inconsistancy with DC re: magnum engines and you sometimes get a JEWEL in the rough that will out perform STOCK, what other's have built up with mods.
With reference to the 4.7L TBs, the problems associated with vibration (due to the design of the intake-- and which will occur with ANY modified TB used without either a stock airhat/box or Volant cold airbox system) have been documented and a permament solution/airbox is being discussed.
FYI-- New TSB released re: HIGH IDLE problems with 4.7s-- Seems having a more efficient TB and a slow computer isn't always the source of the problem!
Why is it that the quickest (Mopar) trucks on Dragtruk.com have F&B TBs???
I myself don't have Dyno numbers for the 4.7s-- Bruce might. We've had problems getting people to bring their trucks back for Dyno testing-- once the TB goes on, the people don't want to give it back!!
Not knocking any PCM upgrades-- they all are worth while investments, and another piece to this puzzle we call a truck.
G-techs aren't as precise as you say-- the numbers they put out sometimes are way off. Guess my 0-60 mph in 4.6 seconds in my truck should be posted then??? Doubtfull... But that's what the GTECH says!
Standard policy-- Buy a TB, try it for 30 days, if you don't like it, return it for a full refund.
A win win situation.
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
21:07:34
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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I never said that they didnt add HP, just NOT VERY MUCH!!!! They dont add as much as the $35 IAT switch!!!
Now how can any argue with FACTS-
For $800+($400 for the TB, $200 intake,$200 exahaust) you get a LOUSY 10 HP!!! From KRCs own site!
For $350-$400 you get DOCUMENTED 20 HP+ with a PCM upgrade.
The Fastman TB are OVERPRICED for what they do. Compared to every thing else, the price should be about $75. Thats all they are worth.
Again I never said DONT buy one, I said BUY THE PCM FIRST!
Oh and yes I agree, we cant compare to the 5.2 and the 5.9s. They run better with carbs anyway!!!
But that billet looks damn good on your motor though. I guess that why they are $400+
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
21:13:20
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Oh and the G-Techs are VERY ACCURATE!!! Many tests proove this. Where they lack from actual track times is they eliminte reaction time. They act like you cut a perfect light every time.
Yes nobody has sent you bact a TB, because it does add ten horse(only with intake and exhaust though!!). But for for the same money as just the TB, they could have had TWICE the power, and TEN TIMES the drivability!!!
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
21:27:22
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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If anyone is looking at possibly going with TB mod, give me a call.
GTECH is only accurate when compared to a known parameter--- Run a few 1/4 mi runs, Gtech them... Get a baseline to what an actual 1/4 mi time is, compare it to your Gtech #. From there you can use a Gtech to accurately determine your increase/decrease in 1/4 mi time with the addition or subtraction of a mod. That's about it. One friend of mine has one (I had one, donated it to the DML as it did me no good-- I dyno the mods I put on my truck for accurate numbers), his G-tech posted consistant 14.5 1/4 mi times... Finally got him to the track... Guess that 15.2 timeslip was a real let down. He was able to do a 'calibration' of sorts as I listed above, and uses it now to figure mod increases/decrease accordingly.-- From that point it is accurate now.
Anyway, that's my story... I'm done.
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
22:07:26
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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EXACTLY SAM!!!! You proved my point. G-TECHs are100% accurate EXCEPT for reaction time. So ad a .700 light to his G-tech, and you get 15.2s
The only way to post sub-14 sec times on the track is with SLICKS! I doubt any normaly aspirated 4.7s are under 15 without them. I dont have a set, but with a borrowed set I ran best time of 14.02 with my tech. So figure mid 14s with reaction time.
I am going to sell my 340 Duster next so I can get the super-charger next. Since I'm regular cab,5 speed, and 3.92s, I hope to get in the 13s easily. I will have one by fall.
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
23:06:26
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Reaction time has nothing to do with your 1/4 mi TIME (with the exception you'd better be running a BYE run--) Reaction time is based on the time from which the light turns GREEN, to when the vehicle starts moving...
A person could sit at the light (green) for 1 hour and then clock off a 15.xx just the same as if they had run a perfect light (.500) The Gtech and reaction time have nothing to with eachother.
The Gtech works off an algorythm (AL GORE invented it.. hehe) that takes the acceleration from a dead stop... the time to a particular speed, etc. There is a margin of error (was the unit completely level? Is the terrain completely level? Does the vehicle 'clip' the meter by accelerating TOO abruptly??)...
Check the Gtech page, read up on it... Also, the 1/4 mi speed is off per true 1/4 runs... as the Gtech posts an exact (or as accurately as it can) speed at the approx. 1/4 point (again, as accurately as it can determine 1/4 distance-- so there's a variance). On a true 1/4 run your speed is determined by averaging your speed between beams 100' prior to, and at the finish line. This does not represent TRUE speed at the 1/4 mi, only the average between the two. Check your speedo as your cross the last 150-200' and then read your timeslip & speed. You were probably .5-2 mph faster indicated on your speedo vs. your 1/4 speed on your timeslip.
Sam
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
23:11:04
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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OK I wont argue over the G-Techs., just the price of those TBs. $400+ OOOUUUCH!!!
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cb
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
23:52:38
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Best mod for about $500... Going from a 3.55 to a 4.10 gear! I'm getting that this weekend.
2000 cc 4.7
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
00:52:59
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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The price of the TB is on par for what it takes to build one... An hour+ of machine work, plating, an hour to assemble/inspect... These are hand made parts, not done on some assembly line by a robot (unless I'm considered a robot-- well then maybe I am... this is illogical... LOL.)
The numbers from one person to another will vary with ANY modification. Trucks will be in one of three categories from the factory... A) Slow truck, B) Middle of the road, or C) a Fast truck.
Most are either a B, or an A-B... Depending on the vehicle, they will respond to mods differently. Another factor in determining HP/Torque increases-- a Dyno on the East Coast typically is either A) real low from standard (yet the vehicle turns some crazy fast numbers at the track, or B) Real high from standard (and the vehicle still turns some crazy fast numbers at the track).
I've taken my truck up against vehicles that were supposedly MUCH quicker than mine via some posts on the net, yet when we run together I was equal to most, if not quicker... I dyno my truck at the same place for consistant dyno results--- though I don't have a 4.7L, I do have some good friend's that do and they've given great input to the performance value of the 68/70/72 F&B TBs.
They're a few 4.7Ls out there, with F&Bs, and PCM work running mid 14s... I think more on the way.
Have you tried an F&B??
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
09:10:39
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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That's the funny part..... after all this hollerin about how the TB's are overrated billet crap, he's never even run one.
That's what we call an underinformed loud mouth know-it-all. Now where's YOUR dyno sheet cudashoe?
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
10:35:14
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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ALEX- I have run one and I SENT IT BACK!!!! They hurt the idle and KILL bottom end.
For the record. I have a 2000 RC 4.7 5-speed 3.92 sure grip and its PAID FOR.
I have done over $5000 in Mods already. Lets see-
Leach PCM -$450
IAT- $35
Hard Tonues $650
AAR Cuda hood/paint $700
MBRPw Cuda tips $600
FULL Hothkis $1500
upgrade to 16s $500
IP z-tube $250
Stillen rotors $350
oh and dont forget cheapies 180 stat, and TPS adj.
I have done the research- for $400 the TBs are a RIP-OFF!!!
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
10:40:01
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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So Alex- who is the uninfored loud mouth now????
Alex- you a have to resort to insults. That shows that you have LOST this argument and have no other recorse to start calling names.
I live in Parkersburg, WV. I will meet anyone within a 300 mile radius to show anyone my truck.
Alex- nice talking to you but nest time REASEARCH before you try and hang with someone ABOVE your level.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
11:45:36
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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So i guess it's out of the question that you'll drive down to Atlanta Dragway (more than 300 miles) to show me that super-duper 14.57 @ 99mph all over again on an actual race track?
I'm also unclear on a few other things.....
1. How do you all of a sudden figure that you are above my level?
2. How exactly did I lose this arguement?
3.) Why are you arguing so hard over this?
Since you obviously have enough money to get online and brag about it, and you've run a 70 mm F&B Throttlebody and then sent it back, then I guess maybe you ARE informed. But you're still a loudmouth. It's clear that there's just no need to carry this forward.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
12:03:16
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Alex- you called me an uniformed loudmouth. That is where I am above you. Why must you resort to insults?????
As soon as one starts calling names they have LOST THE ARGUMENT.
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D
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
12:14:14
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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larger TB's are not a rip off, unless you are
running minor bolt ons....as soon as you go
with forced induction, or nitrous, the larger TB
does nothing but goood, the reason you lose
low end with a larger TB is that you dont have
enough mods to compensate.
Good example is Duners turbo setup, he runs
the 72 mm F&B, and he runs 12's......
the stock 68 flows just fine for N/A vehicles,
port and polish it for free, and drop this
argument.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
13:45:06
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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D- what other mods are there?????? I have them all except the cams. I say Duner runs 12s with a 65mm with that turbo.
Rememeber the point is below $500
For the money, those TBs are a rip-off. Compared to what the other mods due, those TB should be around $75.00
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CW
GenIII
6/12/2002
14:33:22
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Duner runs 12s with a 72mm TB.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
14:37:25
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Sorry CW - I meant to say he runs 12s even if he had just his old 65mm. I would love to see dynos of his truck 65 vs 72
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Rob
GenIII
6/12/2002
14:49:47
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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After reading both of alex and cudashoe opinions I have came to a conclusion.If you want it get it if you dont then then dont get it.It's your own damn truck do what you want.I can see both of you points and I beleive the TB is not the most affective mod for under 500.....but if you piece it with other mods it adds performance.
 180 thermostat,Z-Tube,Magnaflow exhaust,jet mod,,Auto lite 3923's,SS bumper cover,Stull full billet grill and shell,SS rollpan,Apc clear corners&euro tails,DJM 2inch control arms & 3 inch block
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
14:59:57
| RE: The best mod for 4.7s under $500 is...
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Sorry If I sound irate. I just know how helpful these boards can be. Its thanks to Duner that I got my PCM done. Its thanks to CW on my third cat, and now for my electric fan. Its thanks to Dakman for his Kenne Bell info. Its thanks to Bernd for my IAT switch, and my TPS adj. Its thanks to Mark for his Hotchkis info.
And thanks to these boards and many many other people that have led to my truck be where it is today!
The point of all my posts on this subject is passing on info like it has been passed on to me.
If I can be a fraction of help to anyone else, then I will have put a little in to a board that has helped me so much.
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