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conig
Dodge Dakota
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2/20/2002
21:38:16
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 Subject: RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Hey cw does this work on the automatics? removing the abs fuse I mean I've been meaning to just go try it but I've had so little time.
or does the pcm pick up the signal in more than one place?
if it works could I put a switch inline with the wire?
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CW
GenIII
2/20/2002
22:22:36
|  RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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No not on the autos. For the tans to work proporly it has to see a speed sense. If you unplug the fuse for the ABS it will see a speed sense from the output speed sensor in the trans. If you disable this the trans will go into limp in and you will only have second and reverse.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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2/21/2002
20:45:21
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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dam, any ideas to remove it? kenne-bell refused to remove it even after I signed an insurance waiver.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
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2/22/2002
01:04:37
|  RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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try this ,buy anoter ASD relay ,12volt spdt relay cut off pin 87a and jump 87 to 30, and use this one in place of your current ASD relay, I believe this will still allow the PCM to send its signal to shut down,and it will drop its ground to ASD relay ,thus activating shut down,but by removing pin 87A and having 87 jumped to 30 it will keep power .the coil will still be in the curcuit.Note this will also jump out the protection for fuel pump cut off ,if you leave the key On without the engine running. Dont know if this works ,but if i can read a print it sure looks like it should.
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CW
GenIII
2/22/2002
09:26:24
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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It really depends how it shuts it down. I don't know if it uses the asd relay or just shuts off the injectors.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2002
09:52:38
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Hi cw i`m telling you, i have read everything on this system, i got it figured out at least in my small brain,and am almost sure this will work,but not if you have 4 wheel abs,that system uses 3
sencores, standard rear wheel uses only one located in the rear axel.unpluging the sencore wont work as you have pointed out it also feeds info. to the trans;by just tricking the auto shut down relay to keep power on through 87 & 30 ,it should keep the fuel pump and injectors both with VDC & working.
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bernd
*GenIII*
2/22/2002
11:00:16
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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This "may" work under acceleration (if you're lucky), but under decelleration you'll run too much fuel into the cylinders. Under decelleration (high vacuum - low load), the fuel is turned off and then turned back on once at idle or acceleration. Someone on the R/T list has already tried this and it didn't work.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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2/22/2002
13:18:07
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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If I understood the pin thing I would probable try it. but unfortunately I have no idea what your talking about. lol
could it wirk with some sort of button on the throttle linkage? so it didn't run to much fuel when you pulled your foot off the gas pedal.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
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2/22/2002
14:49:18
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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the PCM controls the injector pulse and width under All conditions, and while the injectors are grounded through the ASD relay,they are not CONTROLLED by it,that is to say only shut down is controlled through the ASD relay not pulse or width of the signal.I believe this includes,WOT,acceleration,deacceleration,cruise,idle,& warm up.
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CW
GenIII
2/22/2002
19:39:44
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Not to correct you but the ASD powers the injectors then the PCM controls the ground side. On the next years PCMs in the LH body they are controlled on the power side with high side drivers.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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dodgeguy
Dodge Dakota
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2/24/2002
08:41:39
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Guys, I know a Crysler certified master technician. I've discussed with him a little about the speed limiter and he tells me that the speed limiter cuts the injectors off to force you to decellerate not the ignition. if it were to cut the ignition and not the fuel then you'd run a big risk of the engine backfiring and possibly blowing a hole in the muffler or worse. hehe. Had that same thing happen on my Datsun pickup when I accidently turned the ignition switch off and then turned it back on while the engine was still turning. BOOM! There went my new muffler! OOPS! :) I to am frustrated at my 1993 5.2's 115 MPH cutoff. Even with 210,000 miles on the truck that 318 still has a lot of balls! I'll do us all a big favor and pick my Chysler mech's brain and see what he says about how to disable that damned thing and get back to you all with an answer hopefully.
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bernd
*GenIII*
2/24/2002
17:12:39
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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The ASD shuts the fuel off (not the ignition)...keep it on under decelleration and you'll load up the cylinders. Not a pretty sight.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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CW
GenIII
2/24/2002
18:25:09
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Bernd:
Now a little education for me. Doesn't the ASD relay just provide the power to things like coil, injectors, fuel pump and such. Then the computer handles the actual acuation of the injectors and coil by actuating the ground side. So how does it go rich on decel. Damn I need a wiring diagam. This is hard to do by memory.
I guess a better question would be how exactly does the computer shut down the engine. Spark? Fuel? Both? From what I have seen it just sounds like fuel which is all controlled by the computer. Inside the computer by programing only not just a relay being shut off. Just my interpretation.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, HO cams installed.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/25/2002
00:36:44
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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ASD only controls 12 volts to injectors and coil`s and in some emmission packages to the heating element in the oxygen sencores, it does not control the fuel pump,it does not control the width or the pulse to the fuel injectors,pulse and width is how the fuel is controlled(pulse= how much voltage and width = how long that voltage is applied). the ASD relay does not turn on and off to control this. is anybody getting this,? I dont know if this will work ,who tried this at r/t list? I cant even find a r/t list? I`d like to write him/her ,if they got this far they might know a work around this limiter.thanks, jj
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bernd
*GenIII*
2/25/2002
19:58:21
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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The ASD shuts down the injectors which in turn shuts off the fuel tot eh engine.
"CIRCUIT OPERATION
When the ASD relay energizes, it connects circuit A16 and circuit A142. Circuit A142 splices to supply voltage to the fuel injectors, ignition coil, and heated oxygen sensors. Circuit A142 also splices to cavity C12 of the PCM. This input tells the PCM the ASD relay has energized."
So...if you turn off the injectors, you turn off the fuel.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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jj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/25/2002
20:32:34
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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my point exactly,ASD shuts down injectors and coils ,so if defeated you keep fuel and ignition, no loading up cylinders ?
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CW
GenIII
2/25/2002
21:21:44
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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But the pulsewidth is controlled by the computer right. So does the asd turn off under decel all the time? Could you wire a switch to the throttle (to keep the relay on) so that it was only on at full throttle. Cylinder loading problem solved. Or am I still missing something?
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, HO cams installed.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
|
CW
GenIII
2/25/2002
21:55:42
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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I went and looked at the engine relay in my power distribution center and it is only a standard bosh type relay. The center pin isn't even used. I think that if you wired a WOT activated switch in on the control side of the relay. That way it would only be active when at WOT. Thats when you want it. Sounds like it would work to me.
Bernd, see any problems that I don't?
Think I might wire up a A/C cut out at the same time. Useing the same switch but a 5 pin relay to interupt the circut. Sounds like a interestin wiring project.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, HO cams installed.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/25/2002
22:37:39
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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thats right cw,only 2 pins used 30 & 87 ,these would be normally open .the asd relay is normally energized, or picked. this would close pins 87 & 30 .so if you could open up that relay case and jump those two connections ,when the pcm sends the signal to drop out the asd(it does this by removing the ground to the asd relay)it will be jumped out, keeping ignition & fuel injectors. I know it would be better to contol this upstream in the programming but who knows how and has a flasher.Even If on the outside chance this worked (bernd says no way,)I would NOT leave this relay jumped out, maybe a switch as you have suggested would work,
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jj
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2002
22:41:41
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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kinda reverse logic asd is on ,or picked when normal driving.asd drops out or asd coil is denergized when auto shut down is achived.this make any sence?
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2002
22:41:49
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Of course there are two other ways to remove the limiter on vehicles that use the rear diff for speed input.
one take the signal from the rear diff and electronically reduce the # of cycles.
two - if - and I didn't look yet - there are an even # of teeth on the differential you could grind off every other tooth and cut you signal in half.
As far as the ASD part, without looking, Chrysler has never used an ASD to control injectors. It has always been the PCM and it just controls the pulsewidth and at speed limiter it doesn't shut the fuel off, just sort of limits you by fuel pulsing. The only time it may come close to fuel shutoff is extremely high rpm decel.
Jeff
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CW
GenIII
2/25/2002
23:09:19
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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jj: I mean to wire into the control side of the relay not the power side. The power side is the 30 and 87. 30 is battery power and 87 has power when the relay is on.
What I want to do is just keep the relay on when in full throttle only by tapping into the control side of the relay. Pins 55 or 56 if I remember the correct numbers. Depending on which one you needed to wire the switch into. The relay will be on even though the computer has told it to shut off. That way it is only on at full throttle and if a accident occured the fuel pump would shut down because your foot would be off of the throttle. No richness on decel as well. Much safer and permenent as well. I don't want to swap out a relay if I wnat to do a speed run.
If you hard wire the relay like you are going to the fuel pump will always run and you could end up with a cylinder loadup on decel.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, HO cams installed.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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jj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/26/2002
00:21:40
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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85 is neg side of coil 86 is pos., now the pcm only controls 85 or the neg. it opens the curcuit to ground. if you tap in there I`m almost sure it will set a trouble code,I could be wrong, but i think it would be easier to just jump 30 to 87, this way the pcm still SEE`s the coil in the curcuit and is still dropping asd neg.side,just like it wants too,and (asd)coil is still being seen by the pcm.I think I`d just buy another relay and use it for run`s.or put a single pole swith in paralel with 87 & 30,close the switch to jump out the auto shut down. I dont see the concern for the fuel issue ,maybe i`m missing something. but i see that the fuel pump has it`s own separate relay,that is controlled separately by the pcm.i dont see fuel PUMP controlled by auto shut down.
Hey jjj , I think that tooth filing would work,but the guys at the dealer told me something about the trans slipping if you try to trick it there, I dont know why it dident really make sence, i posted that question here a few months ago,never realy got a straight answer, we need a guinne pig to try out some of these things, Id try it but i cant get the dak away from my wife long enough to even go around the block,.jj
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2002
08:15:18
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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I am not sure with the 4.7 trans. It would think you are going much slower. The question is does it also use other inputs such as tps and map readings? I have a 01 QC 4X4 5.9 so it is a different trans also my speed limiter is at least over 105 :)
A box that could change the signal would be best. Esp. if set up on a ratio, such as (signal*0.9) or so. That way your speed reading wouldn't be as far off and it wouldn't affect the trans.
What you are saying is the ASD shuts off at limit? If so it would have to cycle pretty quickly since the engine doesn't shut off to the best of my knowledge (Never hit the limiter). I thought it felt as if it went flat and just kept you at that speed. If so relays just don't react that quickly, would have to be done by a driver.
If Mike Leach did some of the programming he may know what is controlled, might be worth calling if no one has yet.
Jeff
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jj
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2002
20:33:27
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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I agree we need someone in the know.It does feel like all of a sudden the engine go`s flat and you begin to decellerate slows down maybee 2 mph and in less then a couple seconds your running again."you are saying is the ASD shuts off at limit?".Normal running the asd is picked and when auto shut down happens asd is dropped out. jj
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
16:56:56
| RE: look at this. may remove spd limiter
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Do a little test and put a voltmeter on your ASD. I bet you find out the ASD never shuts off and it is just the PCM controlling it all. But then I may be wrong - you want to feel an ASD shut off take a turbo car and get it into overboost. Now that is shutoff.
Jeff
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