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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
16:07:37
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 Subject: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
A few people have asked about pictures, so I put together a quicky page with some pics on it. I'm working on the intercooler install portion right now. The water injection only works under boost conditions and the system needs to be cooled all the time.
http://members.home.net/cartel5/Turbo/RTnotTurboPage.html
I'm not sure how much you can actually see in the pics though. Everything is so tight that it's hard to see much. I'll be taking it to the track Saturday. Then I'll know whether it was worth the grief.
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Art
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
16:28:33
|  RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Looks good Duner,I dont know how you did it but I take my hat off to you,the work to alter the exhaust manifolds alone is enough to make me stop thinking about it,I would be interested in knowing your results from the track
Good work duner,later
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Blizzard
*GenIII*
 
10/11/2001
16:54:04
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Yep ... DAMN cool install! Definitely DIFFERENT!
'01 QC 4x4
5.9L, 3.92 LSD, loaded
http://shakin-notstirred.tripod.com
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Wiley
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
20:14:45
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Looks pretty good Duner, I am definitely interested in how it goes, and in the possible kit. I've got a few connections, we might be able to work something out.
btw, there was a little mis-communication about post i made in 4.7 vs 5.9 debate. I should have been a little more clear. The DFI I was talking about stands for Digital Fuel Injection. It is a stand alone ECU made by ACCEL. You use a laptop to program all Fuel and timing setting, including boost retard. Its fairly complicated to start a setup, but once you have the initial program set, its just a matter of fine tuning. there is even data logging and seperate programs you can run just to idle smoothly. A typical setup usually runs between $1000-$1300. a little pricey but it will make your truck run better than you ever thought possible.
Looking at the pictures gave me a few ideas about running the pipes, if your interested in the ideas let me know. I ve already made the 5 longest posts in different subjects this week. so i shouldnt take up more room. people might get pissy. he he he he
MoFinWiley
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
20:39:32
|  RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
I'm always interested in new info! Will the ACCEL DFI actually interface with any of the existing components? Or do you basically start from scratch. The big problem area is the distributorless coil on plug configuration. I would imagine that you would need something for a crank trigger. The only real problem I am having is that my PCM was custom configured for a NA application. It has WAAYY too much timing in it for this. My new stock PCM will be here tomorrow. Gee - Is 44 degrees of timing advance too much for a 9.5:1 engine with 12-15 lbs of boost? hahahaha Don't answer that... I already know the answer. I need to know how it reacts with a stock computer anyway.
I'm all ears when it comes to ideas about where to run the pipes. I already have a plan in mind, but maybe I'll change it....
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steveo
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
21:57:39
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
duner, your truck looks sweet, for some reason i thought it was a 4x4. i think ive asked you before but how did you exactly get the exhaust mannifold to work out?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
22:03:39
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Thanks Steveo.... much appreciated.
I had to make my own exhaust manifold. I went to my friendly Dodge dealer and bought the exhaust gasket. I used the exhaust gasket as a guide to know where to cut the port and bolt holes out of my 1/2" thick plate of steel. I built the rest of it from there.
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Jacob
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
22:35:10
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
dude thats sweet what size turbo did you use?
What was the over all price if you don't mind me asking?
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
23:51:54
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
I am in complete awe of your truck. Nice work, I am very very very impressed!
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Wiley
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
03:05:17
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
The only thing you may want to replace is the map sensor, which you might have already, otherwise it works off of your stock sensors. In most cases you can get an adaptor for the wiring harness and it just plugs right in. As for the crank trigger, I am not sure. I know that different crank triggers can be used, but you might be able to get away with using the same line you would use with your aftermarket ignition (which you can still use, cuz the DFI is only an ECU). here is their site. there is quite a bit of info available on it.
http://www.mrgasket.com/dfinew.htm
As for the piping, it all really depends on what intercooler you are getting or already have. Also what is your overall HP goal? One idea I had was that since your are running water injection, you don't need as big of an intercooler. An easy setup would be to leave the setup almost as it is except add in an intercooler right where the piping is, then get a ram-air hood to get ventilation over the intercooler(kinda like they do in the Subaru Impreza wrx). Or another idea is go with an Air-to-Water intercooler, there is alot less piping involved, and they work great at the track with ice water. for dialy driven you could just have water and run some small little cooler (for fuel or oil) to run the water thru and mount that up front. As for a big arse front mount, its just up to how much room you have to run piping to and back. Is there enough room to pipe in a U-bend right at the compressor outlet? if so just run it down to the left and come back around from the right (is the battery in the way?). maybe battery relocation time, it would be a great place for the air-to-water. I have also seen intercooler that do a little switchback, so you could run it across the motor, down and then back up again.? But that also a lot of piping.
I noticed you had some stuff thermal wrapped, are you going to do the downpipe and wastegate pipe to? OH well, just a few ideas floatin in my head.
MoFinWiley
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alex
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
08:41:48
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Duner....
I like the look on your non-R/T. Did you lower it at all or just add 17's and fender flares? I have been thinking about just adding those two items but not lowering my Amber Fire 2000 CC. Oh yeah.... who helped on the turbo stuff? DId you have any input from a shop at all? Or are you experienced in turbos already?
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jASON
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
14:24:23
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
KEWL!!!!! I have to have one like that!!!!!! Duner, please email me at jhar318@swbell.net.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
15:49:48
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
I don't personally have any prior knowledge about turbos. Although I do have some friends that have put turbos on about anything they could find. Every shop I talked to said it couldn't be done. That was half the reason for doing it! hehehe
My truck has the complete R/T suspension package on it.... springs, shocks, sway-bars, wheels and Michelin Pilot tires. I didn't like the Goodyear RSAs. My truck looked like it was a 4x4 with the flares and just the wheels and tires. It definately needs to be lower to look right. Actually a Hotchkis kit would be my preferred stance.... but since I tow a trailer full of sand-toys to the Dunes all winter long, it would be out of the question.
I used a Garrett T04 for my install. I would rather not discuss the $$$$ aspect at this point. I called in a bunch of favors to get everything, so any figure I put on it would be just a guess.
I have no real hp number or goal in mind. I was pretty much figuring on between 400 and 450 hp at the flywheel. The trick will be making the rest of the parts live thru that much power. I checked out the Accel DFI site..... I didn't see anything about working with either Dodge vehicles or coil on plug digitals.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
10/12/2001
16:27:32
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Thanks, Duner..... that's honest. I don't have enough money (or a second ride) to lower my truck. Takes too long to do it in the driveway with no air tools, and I'm just broke. But let us know how the dragstrip turns out. My buddy has an Audi S-4 (that's twin turbo 6 cyl w/ 6-spd manual trans) and suddenly I am interested in turbo's. Complicated set-up but killer power potential.
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steveo
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
00:54:09
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
how were you able to get it hooked up to the exhaust manifold? did you fab it yourself? or have someone else do it? if so how much was it?
thanks
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Muzzy
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
02:28:12
|  RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Duner-
For aftermarket ECU's check out these links. I am ready for a new ECU myself, I am just saving up the money.
http://www.krcperformance.com/java/krc_performance_fast.htm
http://www.motec.com/products.htm
http://www.efitechnology.com/40.html
If you go with one, let me know how it works. Good Luck.
-Muzzy
P.S. Great job with the turbo.
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toxic13
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
14:02:24
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
hey duner, nice hair dryer you got there. can't wait to see what kinda times you run with that. just wondering, what you're doing for a boost controller, and what kind of fuel controller you're using. g'luck at the track.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
01:56:40
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
I am using a Deltagate adjustable wastegate for boost control.
I am using a Vortec FMU for fuel control.
Although I have just begun to try and "tune" this combo, the initial track results were promising...... Today it went a best of 13.43 @ 104.3 mph. I know that it's too rich above 5000 rpm, so I'll make some changes to the FMU tomorrow morning and make some more runs.
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Jimbo
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
02:03:35
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
HOLY SCHNIKES!!! DAT IS FREAKIN FAST!!!
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Dr.Q
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
02:05:39
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Let me guess, traction was an issue?
Q
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jASON
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
08:55:58
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
You can make a killing by making a kit for this. Just to let you know, I have a 97 5.2 auto. Please make one for me as soon as possible.
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toxic13
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
12:34:33
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
duner, great times man. just one more question, how much psi did you boost? anyhow, good luck tuning that thing, and good luck with the IC.
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TallQuad
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
15:28:28
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Hey Duner, I saw you run at the track saturday... nice times! It's such an awesome sound when you're at the line doing a burnout and that turbo spools-up. I was just wondering, though... who was the guy next to you with the black RC dak? He ran a 12.5 something (or lower). I know he has a supercharger, but that thing was flyin'!! Is he on the bottle, too?
In any case, I was VERY glad I got to see your truck in action being that I might be building a turbo for my 4.7 OR installing a Kenne Bell s/c. Nothing beats seeing it with your own eyes!! So I can second that 13.43 1/4 mile... Sweeeet ride Duner!
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
20:54:23
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks guys! Today it went a best of 13.05 @ 106 mph. I sure wish it would have been just a little cooler out. I fully expect to run 12.80s next friday night. Just a little cooler air and I'm in the 12 second club.... with a 4.7!
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bfs
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
22:09:58
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Duner you are my hero. Can u try to post a pick of the exhaust routing to the turbo.
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Horbedarn
Gen I
10/14/2001
22:30:16
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Where do you live? What altitude are you running your truck at? Mine doesn't run anywhere neer that in Denver, Colorado. I would need more than just a turbo to get to those times.
Thanks
2000, CC, SLT, 4x4, 4.7, 3.55, Auto
Borla Cat-Back, AirRaid Intake, TB Spacer, 3923's, 180 T-Stat
MTX Amped Thunderform
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
23:15:20
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
I was running the truck in Phoenix AZ. The track is only at 1100' altitude. Even with the temp in the 90s today, the density altitude would be nowhere close to 5600'. Although you might be able to turn up the boost more at that altitude.... it doesn't mean that the rest of the parts would live long enough to get the timeslip! hehehe
TallQuad - The black Dakota is my buddy's. It is Vortech Supercharged and making 16 lbs of boost! I duplicated the fuel system he is using for his truck. He's been driving it on the street with 16 lbs of boost for over 2 years. And no... it's not on the bottle - yet? hehehe
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TallQuad
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
23:49:09
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Well I must say... BOTH trucks are very impressive! I wonder how much boost the 4.7 can handle?... I built a turbo for my 4.0 Jeep Wrangler and I ran that at about 12 lbs. Ran great at 16 lbs but I killed the pistons TWICE, so I kept it down a bit.
How much boost did you run today? I wish I could've gone to watch! Maybe next friday if you're going.
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SuperDak
Dodge Dakota
10/14/2001
23:58:57
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
duner, do you think you could post a large picture of your truck so i can use it as my desktop wallpaper?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
00:01:53
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
I was running 10 lbs. I won't try turning it up until I have an intercooler and more experience with the fuel system and it's tuning. I will only run 5 or 6 lbs on a daily basis.
I am also still waiting for an boost retard ignition system.
I certainly hope to be going to Firebird next friday night.... or at least that's the plan right now.
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Ed Halterman
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
00:49:38
|  RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Man, if you wanna make another, lmk!! I wonder what would be more cost efficent, a s/c or turbo??
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toxic13
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
08:46:33
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
usually a supercharger is more cost efficient than turbos. this being that with turbos you need to fabricate a custom setup including manifolds etc. which means $$$. s/c are d@mn near a direct bolt-on anymore and you can do it yourself w/ some general know how in a weekend. although, if you're really going for ALOT of high end power (like dropping the compression and boosting crazy psi like 20+) then turbos are the way to go.
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SLEEPER318
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
19:02:21
|  RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Duner what kind of head gaskets is he running? The guy with 16 lbs. I have a Vortech T-Trim on a 318 and I blew the Fel-Pro 1008's with 11 psi. I only had the blwer on there for 25 miles and blew the #6 ring all the way out in the intake valley and I started to warp the #4 ring. I have no clue to what other head gaskets I can run. Everyone I talked to said run the 1008's well I did and I blew'm.
Allen
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alex
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
19:08:55
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Copper head gaskets with an o-ringed block is a pretty safe bet for applications over 10 psi. Kinda pricey, but so is taking off the heads every 25 miles.
Any thoughts from you high boost guys?
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SLEEPER318
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
19:51:15
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
you let me know when you can find copper head gaskets for magnum heads.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/15/2001
20:31:50
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
As far as the head gaskets on my buddy's 5.9... He's running the Felpro 1008s. If you keep blowing head gaskets like that you are having a detonation problem for sure! You are lucky the head gaskets blow instead of it taking out a rod bearing or worse.
All this talk about head gaskets and rod bearings is scaring me. I think I'll go turn the boost down! hehehe
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PrecisionTy
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
01:18:03
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
That truck is friggen awesome!! It was nice to meet you tonight, and funny how we came across each other. I just wanted to drop by and say you did an awesome job and that truck is done beautifully.
It's gonna really be scary when you show up with your slicks :)
Anyhow, it was nice meeting you and I'll more than likely see you around.
Take care,
Dan
'92 Typhoon
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
01:34:45
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah Dan... Same here... it was nice meeting you tonight. Well that is all except for that part about you leaving me across the intersection! LOL Thanks for the nod on the truck. I'm enjoying my little "project". Hopefully I'll see you at the track. I'll keep an eye out for that white Typhoon!
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PrecisionTy
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
01:42:01
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Well, like I said....the only thing that saved me was that traction issue. LOL But I'm sure you'll smoke me at the track, but I definitely have to see that thing run on slicks!
Dan
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jasn
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
02:54:48
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
IP: Logged
Message:
Duner
Very nice meeting you this sunday. Very nice setup. You said your gonna run again this friday night. Are you running out at firebird again? If you are let me know and ill be out there with you.
2001 4.7l auto,
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dropt98dakota
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
09:44:37
| RE: 4.7 Turbo
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Message:
Hey duner could you send me a e-mail to dropt_98_dakota@yahoo.com I wanna ask you a few things about your turbo. I have found a shop that will do me up a twin turbo set-up for around $6000 cdn everything, turbines, intercoolers, full custom exhaust. I would like to know what kind if any changes you had to do inside the motor, cam, ignition, fuel-injectors and some other little things.
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