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4.7L RULES
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
09:51:57
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 Subject: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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This is from the web site Trucktrend.com. This should put this matter to an end.
"Even more embarrassing: This 1999 Dakota 5.9 R/T (no year 2000 models had been produced at the time of our test) was 0.4 second slower 0-60 than the 300-plus-pound-heavier 2000 Dakota SLT Quad Cab, the latter being powered by what's arguably Chrysler's best-ever engine, the silky-yet-torquey 4.7-liter/235-horse SOHC V-8. "
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Jim Marshall
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
11:16:15
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Why do all of the 4.7L people fell like they have to defend their honor against the 5.9L owners? Who cares which one is faster. You have a nice truck and it goes fast, good for you. Build up some self-confidence and go race an R/T. Then come back and brag about your all mighty 4.7L hot rod. Has anyone actually raced the two trucks side by side at a track? That would answer a lot of questions.
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toast
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
11:24:22
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Well i bet they were having traction problems on the R/T. I cant speak for the 99 though but my 02 will kill your 4.7. Personally i don't think it is Chrysler's best engine ever beacause if you think about all it is a Ford 4.6. Look at the sumlarties the way the plugs are and the coil over plug setup plus the way the head is designed and the way it sounds with duel exhaust, sounds just like a mustang with the 4.6.
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Knobbyman
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
11:25:08
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I have a 4.7 Jim .. Doesn't mean I think it's faster. I actually hope the 5.9 is faster. Only what 20 more HorsePower though? That makes it really close. I have to agree though lets get a 4.7 & a 5.9 next to eachother and let loose.
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4.7 L RULES
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
11:32:58
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Fact: rear wheel horsepower is within 5% of each other.
Fact: 5.9L runs out of power above 4800 rpm.
Fact: 4.7L weights at least 60 lbs. less.
Fact: I raced my 2000 CC 4.7 auto 3.55 LSD against a 2000 CC 5.9L R/T auto 3.92 LSD.
Both were brand new off the dealer lot. I was driving the 4.7, my son drove the 5.9. I pulled away from him at about 60 mph.
Fact: I previously drove both and choose the 4.7.
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Jim Marshall
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
13:00:42
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Should Dodge put the 4.7L in the R/T? No.... I think the 5.9L is an old school powerhouse engine that has a strong niche in the market for those people who want that. However, all auto makers are making smaller more powerful engines like the 4.7L. So why are we all having a cow about who is faster? It is kind of like comparing a Mustang GT to a Z28, they are both fast but two different animals. There will always be a fine line on which one is better, it is just a matter of opinion.
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RJKobbeman
GenIII
9/26/2001
14:03:40
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I own a 4.7 and have never raced anyone. When it comes to technology and performance, I prefer the 4.7 over the others... but, there IS NO sound and feeling to a big engine. Also, when it comes to modifications... it is ALWAYS back to basics with muscle-car inches. The more you tweak a new technology engine, the more you have to deal with the computer that controls all of the systems. This can be trivial for minor mods... all the way to a nightmare for major mods.
So... if your like me that likes a 'best of both worlds' engine (technology vs performance vs reliability etc.)... that I will probably never mess with, I love the 4.7. If you want a muscle car that has FAR greater potential (realistically speaking), nothing beats the older, bigger engine (which has many updates to it I might add).
Rob
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5.2 L
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
16:11:12
|  RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Actually- none of you know what you're talking about because the 5.2 kicks both the R/Ts ass and the almighty 4.7---been there, done that,and got the t-shirt to prove it!
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Jim Marshall
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
16:51:57
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Was that in a Dodge Diplomat Cop Car?
I went to jail in a fast cop car and all got was this lousy striped T-shirt!
Really - What do have that 318 in so I make sure to keep my "ass" on the look out?
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5.2L
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
16:59:10
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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ok big Jimbeau- that makes no sense what- so- ever, so thanks but NO thanks for your input!
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Jim Marshall
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
17:15:21
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Like or not here is my input...
The only 5.2L I ever see is in my rearview mirror.
Does that make any sense.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
17:23:17
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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The first time I raced my truck at the strip I was having horrible traction problems (as was everyone due to several blown engines that night). I raced a red R/T CC that had the exact same mods as mine, exhaust. He ran a 15.78 and I ran a 15.80. I do have the time slips to prove it. I'm not proud of my time because I can do much better now but that is the fact. I hope this helps the debate a little.
2001 CC 4.7 Sport 5 speed 3.92 LS
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
17:45:11
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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By the way, that was both of our best times for the night. We both also had the same handicap as far as traction.
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5.2L
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
18:18:44
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Hey Jim- that doesn't count when your grandma is driving the 5.2----> bring your noise down here and I'll park behind you so you can actually see a 5.2 in your rearview!
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
19:20:42
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Well how about using some real world magazine reviews and seeing which is faster. What is the fastest new truck review you have ever seen for a stock 4.7 Dakota? I'm staring at the sept. 98 High Performance Mopar and in their test of a new, stock 99 Dakota R/T CC no less, they got a 15.113 at 88.9 MPH first try. They then backed it up with a string of 15.1's. I'd be willing to run any pure stock 4.7 ever made with my pure stock R/T (of course you'll have to come to me!). I hope to get some baseline times before I ever start to mod it but I'm convinced it's faster then 14.7, I think it's about a 14.5. Maybe I just got a good one, I've driven a 2wd 2001 4.7 auto 3.92 which was handicapped with the CC but still it wasn't even close to my R/T. Some 4.7 5-speed RC 3.92 LS's will run a 14.7 with the perfect launch and shifts. My R/T is not too difficult to launch and with the automatic, shifting is not even a thought. The motors may be close in rear wheel horsepower (especially if the 4.7 has a manual) but the 360 has much more torque. I have said this so many times it's funny, but the only reason a 4.7 can hang with a R/T is if it has that 5-speed. Nobody has ever broken in the 14's with a stock automatic 4.7, but lots of R/T's have even some CC's have.
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5.2L
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
19:58:26
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Not to knock the R/Ts, i do like them, but they just can't outdo the 4.7 or 5.2. Torque does NOT mean speed, therefore since you have more torque you just FEEL like you're going faster. ANYWAY- where are you located, I'd be glad to meet up with ya!
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OMG
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
21:11:08
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I hate to break it to you girls.But the 4.7,5.2 & 5.9 are NOTHING to brag about.Go drive something with some balls.Then form an educated opinion,not some BS you read in a magazine....Hey 5.2? where you located? Anywhere near PA? I'd be glad to show ya what a real engine can do...not some sissy ass,detuned small block,a REAL engine,and you can bet your ass in isn't in any goofy lookin lil' Dakota Pickup truck. Gawd you people are so clueless!
*If you ain't packin at least 500 cubes...leave the POS in the garage*
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5.2L
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
21:19:45
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Great- another smartass! Who asked you to join this conversation anyway? If you noticed, this is a DAKOTA website, so that means we're talking about Dakotas-wow isn't that something? Go screw yourself and your "hotrod" OMG! Oh and by the way- what kind of "man" says "Gawd" and "clueless"....speaking of balls......
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
21:36:28
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Torque is the only thing that applys force to the tires. Horsepower is just a mathmatics problem. Dynos measure torque and convert to horsepower. If you feel acceleration you are feeling so much G force which over time equates to a speed. G force is the only thing a G-Tech needs to accurately measure a 1/4 mile or 0-60 time. If it feels faster over a long enough time then it IS faster. I had a 5.2 Dakota automatic as well and it is not as fast as my R/T, not even after a few mods and in a lighter 93 body style. The best argument for torque is that 200 ft-lbs accelerates a truck equally at 2000 rpms as it does at 4000 rpms, this is a physical fact and cannot be argued. BUT you are making twice the horsepower at 4000 rpms and not accelerating any faster with twice the horsepower. So why do we want to make that torque as long as possible? So you can stay in the lower gears longer and receive their torque multiplication advantage longer. The problem with applying this high rpm argument to the 5.9 -vs- the 4.7 or 5.2 is that the 5.9's torque doesn't drop below the 4.7's until 5500 rpm or more. (it never falls below the 5.2). This would start to be a problem if the 4.7 just kept that 250+ft/lbs of torque to something like 7500 rpm (which it doesn't or it would be rated at 357 HP there) but the 4.7 doesn't make more long enough to make up for it's eariler tardyness (it gets an extra 500-750 rpm). Basically the 5.2 and 4.7 can get a better transmission (which is not rated to handle the 5.9's torque) for drag racing but that dosen't make the motor better, just the transmission. Allow for the 5.9 to do unlimited mods to only the transmission on an otherwise stock truck, or put the 5-speed in the 5.9 (for a few runs of glory before exploding) and you will see. Or simply run two equal quad cabs, with the only difference being the 4.7 -vs- the 5.9, even w/o the benifit of a slightly hotter computer and free flowing exhaust the R/T has, the 5.9 will still win.
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Curt
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
21:42:21
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I have a 2000 SLT CC 4.7, 5 speed. But I really wanted a RT. I drove 2 new RT's and 3 new 4.7's. I loved the ride of the RT (wife didn't, LOL).
But the RT'S just didn't excite me, performance wise, the little 4.7 did. They are very responsive.
We all know cubic inches equals torgue, and torgue is for the top end but how many of us drive 100 on the street? I damn sure don't.
Just for you younger readers, I am 57 and run S/G NHRA but not with a Dodge, but with a little Nova.
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OMG
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
21:53:33
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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5.2L..Yes,I did notice that it's a Dakota website.What's your point? I've seen plenty of dakota drivers come onto other message boards and stir things up.The thing is...a dakota can't back it up!I saw one at the track a few weeks ago,it was a 5.2,supercharged,and a 150 shot of NOS.The POS still couldn't do any better than a 12.4 in the 1/4. I mean,whats the point? Dump all that $$ into a truck,only to go 12.4? Not a week goes by that some CLUELESS dakota driver doesn't pull up next to me and rev his little engine wanting to race.Only to get blown away,and then cry "well it runs good for a pickup truck" Here's a tip...Want to know the easiest way to get your dakota to run a good 1/4 time? Find yourself a 1320ft. cliff and drop it off.You'll be suprised at how fast that thing could accelerate when it has gravity workin along with it!
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OMG
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
22:03:37
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Quote from Curt:"We all know cubic inches equals torgue, and torgue is for the top end "
You'd think someone who runs NHRA would know how to spell "Torque" and would also know that torque=bottom end,not top end,genius...
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Blizzard
*GenIII*
9/26/2001
22:20:50
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I'll hook onto whatever you have "OMG", drop 'er into four low, and drag you all around the parking lot. hehehe
These forums aren't just about speed. It's about trucks. Dodge Dakota trucks. I don't recall seeing anything in the title of this thread that even remotely compares a 4.7, 5.9, or anything else to a 500+ cube motor. Whatcha drivin? A Pacer? ;o)
My guess is probably a 'vette. CHEvette.
'01 QC 4x4
5.9L, 3.92 LSD, loaded
http://shakin-notstirred.tripod.com
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Dr.Q
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
22:24:19
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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OMG,
What rock did you crawl out from under? You seem to enjoy knocking other peoples ride. What are you driving? For all I know your some pimply face pud pounder getting his jollies off on sh!tting on other people. So, get some clearacil, shoot your wad and quit anying people!
Q
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TEAMFAST
Dodge Dakota
9/26/2001
23:33:45
|  RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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THE R/T has potential to kick the 4.7 in the
teeth...
THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR
DISPLACEMENT..
I own a 4.7 with a 5speed...
I mean shyt!...my grandmother drives and
automatic...
DC has to consider offering a 5speed with the
R/T
Lets remember, were all on the same team
here... except maybe OMG...
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
00:20:10
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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It seems people are still confused about torque vs. hp. Horsepower is NOT just a mathematical result from torque. If you think it is, I can tell you that torque is only a mathematial result of a linear force: T = F * r (r being radius). Horsepower is work. Work is what gets a "job" done. But enough of physics. If torque was what really mattered, why is it that every racing engine, be it NASCAR, F1, NHRA or the World of Outlaws have a higher specific hp than torque? There is enough money involved in those competitions to make the engines make more torque if need be. Again, I am not against torque, I'm even planing on being one of the first owners of a Dakota Diesel if it ever becames available.
Truck on...
2001 QC 4x4 SLT+
4.7 auto LSD 3.55
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RJKobbeman
GenIII
9/27/2001
08:33:04
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Chris,
For what it is worth, horsepower IS a derived number. Torque and RPM are the real factors. And to answer your question "If torque was what really mattered, why is it that every racing engine, be it NASCAR, F1, NHRA or the World of Outlaws have a higher specific hp than torque?" The reason for this is they produce their torque at HIGH RPM... remember torque and RPM are the two variables. Multiply these... along with a constant and you get HP.
Torque and RPM are EVERYTHING. HP is just a number. Without knowing what the torque and RPM numbers are... the horsepower number could mean anything.
Rob
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4.7L RULES
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
09:21:49
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Curt, is right on the money. The point of this thread is not just the numbers, but what you yourself found to be faster. The R/T I drove sounded better then the 4.7 (becasuse it already has a low restriction exhaust) and had more low end power, but the motor dies at about 4500-4800 rpm(feels like you sitting still until it shifts). The 4.7 Has better top end and that relates to better passing power. Overall, to me, the 4.7 has the best balance of power to torque.
I guess I got a 4.7L that runs good. I also test drove a 4.7L quad cab at first, and it was not near as fast as the CC I ended up buying.
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4wDakota
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
09:33:33
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I have a club cab with a 2.5 liter and a fart pipe!!!! I'm running a 12.5 HP shot of nitrous with a GReaddy and turbonetics boost control on my ram air setup for my drop in K&N filter. I optomize my timing, fuel map, and Nitrous for optimum power at 1/2PSI of boost I get at 70MPH.
I have no transmission just a clutch system to ingage the driveshaft so I have ZERO losses!!!
Just kidding
Seriously,... THEY'RE ALL DAKOTAS!!!
The differences can be as little as a intake and exhaust to bridge the gap between the slowest and the fastest. Also consider tires and weight RC,CC,QC. GEEEEZ Just chill out, Kiss and make up, When you meet up at the next Mopar show you can see who's really fastest. It won't be the R/T, it won't be the 5.2, it won't be the 4.7, it'll be the guy who put a lot of time into his truck and his driving skills. Then that guy can share with us and we'll all be better off!!!
Dakota's as a whole will rise above the rest!!!!
Quite B!TCHING !!!
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R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
11:28:24
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I agree!
Can't we all just get along? The forum is designed for us to learn and get tips from one another. Talk is cheap, do your braging behind the driver seat to your girlfriends. Lets move on to the next subject.
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RTjohn
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
11:49:18
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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It is an interesting not that bone stock I was running 15.0 1/4 mile times in my 99 rt CC. Now with only a computer, low temp thermostat, full redline oil, and some reduced weight I run in the mid 14's on a good launch. I like both the 4.7 and the 5.9 but to hear people saying the r/t was running 15.6-15.8 is just unbelievable to me. Well just like we have yamaha vs. honda vs kawasaki vs suzuki vs aprillia we have a civil war on the 4.7 vs 5.9. quite simply the 4.7 is more advanced and has great potential. The 5.9 is just a big boy engine which proves to be consistent and provide gobs of torque. Torque wins races!
RTjohn
This is the last time I respond to this subject. Whoever started it must be pretty unsure of his 4.7!
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R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
11:56:01
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Be nice.
The 4.7L guys already fill a little inadequate to the big boys.
I'm just kidding, don't everyone have a tantrum.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
16:15:51
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I think I'll take this opportunity to remind anyone that lives near the Phoenix area that the Truckin' Nationals are almost upon us. October 13 & 14 at Firebird Raceway. I have no comment on the speeds of both the 4.7 or 5.9. Come out to the track and see for yourself. You know I'll be there!
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
17:30:57
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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RTjohn,
I assume you were talking about what I posted about the R/T times against my times. Yes, he did run a 15.7 and yes I did run a 15.8. I'm sure his truck is faster than that as is mine. Everyone that night had horrible traction problems due to several blown engines that night. I have nothing against the 5.9. Most of the guys I hang out with drive R/Ts. I just posted that because everyone wanted to see true 1/4 mile slip times. I have never posted that time before because it was not exactly a good night for anyone. The fact is that we had the exact same handicaps and he ran .1 second faster than me.
I will also say that if you compare a 4.7 auto to a 5.9 auto, the 5.9 is faster. Yes, the 5.9 is a faster engine. The main problem is that the 5.9 doesn't come with a 5 speed and the 4.7 does. Therefore, if you compare available trucks, the 4.7 5 speed is very comparable to the 5.9 auto in the speed aspect.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/27/2001
19:25:19
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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And I'll say the 4.7 is a much more advanced motor and tweeked better in factory form. Why didn't they just make it bigger!? 1.2 liters naturally aspirated is just to much of a handicap to make up. When the 5.7 Hemi comes out for the Dakota I'll be first in line, it is supposed to get a new high torque capable 5-speed as well. Barring any changes for the better to the Lightning this thing should beat it. All I can say is please Chrysler gods, don't make it ulgy! The current style is a work of truck art, last truck to look this good was a 57 Chevy stepside and it was way to much of a hunk of iron to ever have good musclecar potential.
OMG, my daddy used to drive a 500 ci ride, not very fast though... a 75 Eldorado.
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ram59d60
Dodge Dakota
9/29/2001
02:46:12
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I would say the word IDIOTS sums it up best.
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blueballs
Dodge Dakota
9/29/2001
02:52:55
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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out of the two motors who has the longer power band? I dive a 98 Kenworth 425hp and 1600 lb tq from about 1300 to 1600 rpms. Same truck, gears trany, but differnt year w/ same motor w/longer power band (1300 to 1750) walks away. That is my only guess
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Dr.Q
Dodge Dakota
9/29/2001
11:07:20
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Mr. Balls,
You're not one of those guys those guys who gets in the left lane to pass another rig then SLOWS down to fifty for about five miles. I HATE that $hit! Just bustin' on you man. About ten years ago I was either going into nursing or trucking school. My veteran benefits went farther for nursing school. My brother has been driving for roadway for over 20 years. Only one hemroid surgery so far!
Q
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/29/2001
19:55:56
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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Blueballs, the Kenworth anology would work if the 4.7 and 5.9 made similar power up until the 5.9 started dropping off and the 4.7 continued on. The problem is that the 4.7 gives up so much up until 5000 rpm that its extra 750 rpm don't help enough. Plus when your talking about an extra 150 rpm in a 300 rpm powerband, that's like adding 2000 rpm to the 5.9's 4000 rpm powerband.
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jason
Dodge Dakota
9/30/2001
16:51:44
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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out here in phoenix my stock 4.7 is 3 tenths of a sec. slower in the 1/4 than an r/t!!!!!
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MESA2000
Dodge Dakota
9/30/2001
17:11:51
| RE: 4.7L is FASTER then 5.9L PERIOD .....
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I KNOW THIS IS TOTALLY OFF THE SUBJECT,BUT DO YOU KNOW IF I CAN CONVERT FROM 3.9 TO 4.7,IF SO WHERE CAN I DO IT?AND HOW MUCH$$$
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