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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
04:13:01
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 Subject: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Anyone try this? After blowing my launch and grinding 2nd gear at the track I have been practicing my launches. I have found that a 3,000 RPM dump right into second gear with 25 PSI in the tires will spin the tires only slightly and then run the entire 2nd gear in about 2 sec's. with no bogging. I realize this is probably hard on the drive line but I will slip the clutch slightly. It's just impossible to slam that 1st to 2nd gear shift hard. The sycro's need about a half sec to make up for the steepness of my 1st gear. 2nd to 3rd gear shift can be hammered everytime with no hesitation.
The truck is easily producing enough power to get well into the 14's with a good launch. I ran a 15.5 with lots of wheel spin and a missed shift into 2nd gear. Despite this my trap time was over 90 MPH which shows the very strong pull the truck has after I finnaly jammed it into 2nd gear. (May have lost almost 1 sec with my spinning tires and grinding my shift having to pull it back to neutral and do it again) Anyways this was my first run in my life with any vehicle and I am very pleased with the numbers for I was expecting to see much worse and was very surprised when I read my time slip. The 60ft time was well over 2.4!! Brutal!
A guy I know on another board made a comment about seeing a 318 probably with mod's run a 15.5 at Mission Speed way despite the brutal launch. He thought it was an R/T but his friend told him it was a 5.2 because of the wheels. It was actually my 4.7. He was at the end of the track and was very surprised how quickly it was acelerating when it hit the marker. His friend told me to try a clutch dump into second gear. I was doubtfull but it seemed to respond very well with no lag. I had tried 2nd gear starts before and wasn't happy but never a high RPM dump. I will also add some traction bars. More engine mod's aren't necessary untill I get traction.
I will hopefully post about mid 14's next time I come back from the track.
Later
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plwhite
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
18:15:44
|  RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Dont do the 2nd gear launch. I think if you just learn to drive a stick you will find the only think off about your tranny is you. My 4.7 cc 5-speed ran 14.8s right off the showroom floor. Please do not post any more on how badass you or your truck is its embarassing to the rest of us ( us meaning all the 4.7 owners who know how to drive a stick)
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
19:36:49
|  RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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plwhite - Kinda brutal don't ya think?
We all have to learn sometime. The track is just a whole lot tuffer to get right than the street is.
I don't think that 2nd gear clutch dump is going to get you anywhere. Here again, it might sound like it's going faster but your 60' times will probably get killed. Not to mention the fact that it's pretty tough on drive train components.
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
20:09:29
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Ya it's brutal but I guess not everyone can be as good a driver as you guys. Sorry I sliped the tires up on my first run in my entire exsistence on the planet.
It wasn't just me having a bad day a super charged 5.2 CC ran a 15 flat only.
As for a 2nd gear clutch dump. I feel pretty good about it. I tried it and I can still spin out the tires if I let the clutch out to fast. It explodes very nicely and doesn't drop below 2,500 RPM's. Anyways it's back to the track to find out. 1st gear only lasts 1 second after which you need a half sec for the sycros to line up to shift. At least on mine I do. I found a 2nd gear start runs through in about 2 sec's once it hooks up. Remember this is a truck tranny and with 3.92 there is plenty of power to easily start in second. I will try it and find out.
Later
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K/M/A
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
20:29:16
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Jeffster you got more bullsh*t than a bulls butt.Are you from Canada?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
20:36:25
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Jeffster - I was saying that plwhite's comments were kinda brutal....
You SHOULD try the 2nd gear launch.... I have. It was lots of fun! hehehe It just didn't do what I thought it might. The starting line at the track is just so slick that you'll spin forever.
If your synchros are taking that long to line-up then there is something wrong with them. The original trans my truck came with was a POS! It rattled at idle if it was in nuetral and after a while it would jump out of gear if you tried to take off from a light in 2nd. At freeway speeds the trans had a terrible vibration right from the start. How many miles on your truck? I'd take it in and have them take a look at it. Just make sure you have climbed under the truck and removed any traces of rubber inside the rear fenders (behind the tires).
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jay
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
20:46:09
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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ok in my opinion i think the clutch dumping is a bad idea wanna know why ok here ya go. First, when you hammer out the clutch you cause the drivetrain to just slam (which is not good) second, by slammin' the drivetrain like that you can actually lose power and torque to the wheels do to shock on the drivetrain Third, what do you think is absorbing that shock yup you guessed it all the drivetrain components and by absorbing that shock it's taking away from your HP and torque. I think what you need to do is just practice keeping the truck in it's respective powerband, try shifting at an rpm high enough so your not letting the rpm's drop too far below your torque peak and also try keeping the shifts as smooth and as crisp as possible without jerkin the drivetrain all over the place. In the past this has help me to run some pretty impressive times with other cars, the smoother you are the better you'll be at getting the power to the ground. All the HP in the world can't help you any if you can't get it to the ground. oh well just my .02 cents flame on if you like but hey i know what works for me and what has worked for me and i have some impressive times under my belt.
jay
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pwhite
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
21:02:47
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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is it really that brutal when you factor in all the times jefster has trashed anyone and everyone who dosnt have a 4.7. I have a 4.7 and i get tired of hearing how he thinks r/ts are slow and mustangs are slow .
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
22:57:50
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Thanks for the advice Jay.
pwhite, what post did I ever say R/T's are slow???????? (I said I don't think they are as fast as this set up we have and having spared with a few they are not IMHO stok for stock )BTW at least I have the balls to post the good results with the bad. A lot of drivers never mention their bad runs. 90% of drivers wouldn't have posted that result at all but rather weight untill they got a decent run in. I said I would post as soon as I ran regardless of weather I sliped or not. I always tell the truth. I don't need to hide behind my 14 sec runs to try and trash someone else. Perhaps you feel frustrated because you got a little penis and the girls don't like you much. I don't know, but to start trash talking a fellow Dodge owner for trying to get some input from those that have made several runs leads me to beleive this is the case.
Yes some Mustangs are slow. I am not insanley fast and have clobbered a few. Yet again some of the fastest cars in the world are Mustangs. A street legal Stang runs mid 8's in the 1/4 out here.
Thanks for nothing.
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kicker01
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
23:26:30
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Hey Jeffster, you should try the 2nd gear clutch dump just to see if it will work at the track, personally I feel it bogs too bad. I know when I hit the track about a month ago it was difficult to get used to the launch. Hell my best rt was 1.060 and my best '60 was 2.441. I blame it on my crap driving skills and these pos tires. Next time Im goin to try a 1500rpm shift in 1st. Let us know about your next trip to the track, I hope your RT improves!
'01 RC 4.7 5spd
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K/M/A
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
04:07:04
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Jeffster,does everyone know you in your town?The Mustang boys must park there cars on the side of the road and let you go buy,you must have them shaking in there boots.Ever one in that town must put there boots on when they see coming.Because you are so full of it.Jeffster do you ever clean your clown outfit.Hey
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
13:15:21
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
The only mustang jeffster said he could beat was the 5.0. The 5.0 came in many shapes and sizes and most of them were crap. They came from a era when engines were making crap hp. Example 1987 5.0L camaro making 150 hp. The 4.7 has a unbelivable pull comparable to a Grand Prix supercharged ( I know i have them both.) Ive even watched a new mustang lose to a cavilier 5 speed at a oval track. I have never heard jeffster post a weird time he sounds for real so shut up.
Also what does it matter if he is from canada. I live in canada and thats were half of the parts for the dodge, ford, and GMs are made. Ive made so many parts for all three of them that i quit that job and went into sales so maybe now i can drive a cool car instead of building them.
Jeffster just keep doing what it takes to bring down the Times even if it hurts the truck a little. Im sick of the lack of confidence that half of the people put into there truck. Drivetrain this and drivetrain that if your all so worried about the drivetrain why dont you go out and push.
Marty
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
14:38:37
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
well i for one do some banging of the gears in my 5.2 5speed, but i have to say as manny posts as you have posted (jeffster), on racing, dumping the clutch and grinding 2nd gear it just makes me wonder how long your 01 is going to last? I remember reading a post from matt who has already replaced his rearend and tranny from dumping at 3500 rpm. i know you dont have slicks and launch at 35k but i think you might be headed down that road.
Please dont take this as a slam or anything but i dont want you to break your truck. but if you are i guess this is the best time because it will be covered by the warrenty. as long as you dont tell them you were raceing. =)
Eric
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
16:07:16
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Well said Marty!!!
Canada has nothing to do with this matter.
Even Honda and Toyota are made here too.
Anthony
Toronto, Ontario
www.geocities.com/intense79/index.html
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K/M/A
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
19:36:49
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Mar you must be from Mars.Why in the hell would you tell someone to beat there truck.You guys make good beer,but you don't give good advise.
Jeffster needs to pull a big hole shot to beat them old Mustangs, Hey {HeHeHe}
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redbone
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
20:54:51
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
IP: Logged
Message:
you go jeffster its real cool that you posted your bad runs with the good ones keep it up but be carefull on the drive train they are weak and as for whippin stangs i do believe you have got 1 or 2 so keep it up
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
21:12:16
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Thanks guys. I am gald not everyone thinks I am a complete moron. In fairness when I have ran and beat some Mustangs I didn't spin out and grind second gear. Well I did grind against one stang and lost by half a hood length because of it. many 5.0's are weak along with early 4.6's because of gearing. Just as many will school me I realize this. I just happen to be a little above 50% with them so far.
As for my run. This was my first and only time to the track and I was unfoucosed anxious and screwed up. I mearly posted my time to further varify that this is an easy 14 sec truck with few or no mod's. You would have to figure with a spin out and a missed gear I could probably make up almost 1 sec easily when I calm down and learn to walk it properly. I will try my 2nd gear dump and see what happens. I will slip it a little so it doesn't hammer the drive line. If it doesn't work who cares I will get a few more runs in and do what all the experienced Dak racers are doing and start at 1,500 rpm in 1 st and not shift so high in the RPM band. Anyways I hope to post times well into the 14's when I come back next time.
Later
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
21:55:03
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
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Message:
Just a little tip about getting your best time. You may want to deep stage and then don't concentrate on the tree so much. Your reaction time has nothing to do with the numbers you get on the printout. You could in theory sit at the starting line for 15 secs and still run a sub 15 sec 1/4. It will give you a chance to think more about the launch RPM, clutch, and shift. If your are actually in bracket eliminations then it's a different story. A 1.00 reaction time on a perfect dial-in will lose to sombody who screws a shift and loses .45 sec off his dial but cut a perfect light (based on a .500 perfect light). Some people always try to add their reaction time error back into their ET to get what they think would be a perfect run. It just doesn't work that way, the clock doesn't start until the last beam on the starting line is reconnected again by you front tire moving out of the way. The deep stage probably won't do anyhting but techically you knock that extra foot off of the total distance and are more consistantly in the same spot every time. It is easier to redlight deep staged though and you can't allow the truck to move at all. How do you 5-speed guys keep from rolling after you stage on imperfect launch pads? My Baretta GTZ was dificult to keep motionless but at least it had the emergency brake in any easy spot to use for this purpose. I would also practice on a poor traction surface like a sealcoated asphalt, if you perfect a launch on concrete it will probably be much more then the tires can handle on a track with a bunch of slippery rubber laid down. I also think lowering tire pressure on radials will hurt traction, as will heating them up with a big burnout. You want the best contact patch which is probably 30-35 pounds and just enough of a squeal to clean the tread, stay away from the water too. Increasing tire pressure in the front to max couldn't hurt either. I've never owned a truck 5-speed so I don't know how to get a better 1-2 shift. My 70 Chevelle with m-21 4 speed was so sweet, you just kept it floored and stabbed the cluch letting you foot slip off the side, meanwhile pulling that hurst back as hard as you could. Usually all I got with a powershift like this was a lot of rubber in 2nd, but never a grind. 3rd was good for more rubber and 4th good for a chirp (it didn't have posi but did only have about a 3.20 final gear). Crap, this talk makes me want a tough manual again. The manuals in my GTZ and Neon were cable shifted crap, that never felt close to as strong as that Muncie/Hurst combo.
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Dr.Q
Dodge Dakota
8/21/2001
22:12:53
| RE: 2nd gear clutch dump. My E.T
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeffster, I've been hoping you'd get in a few good runs before you start modding the bejeezus out of your truck. I got jus'bout the same set up as you 'cept an SLT, '01 RC 5sp 3.92. At 300lbs lighter than a CC and 700 lbs lighter than a QC I figure its jus' bout the fastest set up Dodge has (The R/T's like to forget 'bout the power loss from the torque converter not to mention the extra weight of an automatic) I'm just curious (as we all are!) what my truck will do. I'll probobly just get a g-tech that way for $139.00 every stop light can be a 1/4 mile. ...and you could practice that shifing...just kidding.
Your pal,
Dr.Q
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