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UFO1
Dodge Dakota
8/17/2001
13:37:38
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 Subject: V-6 Engines
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Message:
Okay i have a 97 dakota v-6 and it says it comes stock with 175 bhp. Now i was told that the earlier models of the dakota 96 and under has more around 190 bhp, I just wanna find out if this is true. If anyone has a web page that list all the specs for all years and models of dakotas it woule be appreciated.
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DAK2
Gen III
8/17/2001
14:44:32
|  RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
Try www.allpar.com good site for all kind of overall MOPAR info.
Y2K DAK 3.9L 5 Spd OS/2 Keeps going&going&going
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Fluid
Dodge Dakota
8/17/2001
16:40:56
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
The Magnum 3.9s had/have 175 hp. Whoever told you 190 hp was not being accurate. It may be possible to increase the 3.9 Mag to 190 hp with easy mods, but from the factory - 175 hp.
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UFO1
Dodge Dakota
8/17/2001
18:47:44
| RE: V-6 Engines
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u mean BHP!!
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cbsdakota
Dodge Dakota
8/18/2001
15:06:51
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
Of course they mean BHP!! Do you even know what that means? Break Horse Power: the amount of horsepower at the top of the power curve. Why would they quote any other horsepower figure?
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THEUFO1
Dodge Dakota
8/23/2001
02:02:10
| RE: V-6 Engines
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BUT IT IS WHEN IT IS UNDER NO LOAD...AT LEAST THATS WHAT I HEARD.
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lattimer
Dodge Dakota
8/23/2001
08:46:42
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
THEUFO1,
Brake horsepower (BHP) is a measure of an engine's peak horsepower. Back in the day, this was measured basically by putting a brake on the crank of the engine and measuring the force output of the brake to stop the engine. From this, a horsepower number can be calculated, this is known as break horsepower. The commonly referenced horsepower numbers are all BHP numbers, even if nobody includes the B. If you look into how the majority of Dyno's work, they actually measure the torque of an engine (engine dyno) or the torque of the rear wheels (chassis dyno). This measurement is done through a hydraulic method, measuring the force applied to a fluid, then calculating a raw torque number, which is then calculated out to horsepower. Therefore, all of the claimed HP numbers are BHP. And remember, this is always a peak horsepower and a certain RPM. No self respecting manufacturer would post anything other than the peak number.
Dyno's can perform this measurement without forcing the engine to stop, which is much better than the old ways. So, this measurement is taken while under a certain load. You can't measure the torque without applying a load and observing the reactive forces.
However, load or no load makes absolutely no difference. The peak power available from an engine is just that, available. You can place a load requiring 50 HP on the engine, and you still have 125 HP available (3.9L, 175 HP stock). At no load, you have 175 HP available. Either way, the total peak capability is 175 HP.
Now, what you have been told is incorrect. The Magnum 3.9L is 175 BHP, also referred to as 175 HP, they are exactly the same thing. THe older pre-Magnum 3.9L was 125 BHP. THe older 5.2L (318) V-8 was probably somewhere around 190 BHP, that may have been where the number came from. It is easy to modify a 3.9L with bolt on performance accessories and get 190 HP at the crank. A decent cat-back would probably get you that.
Hope this helped!
Shawn
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Fluid
Dodge Dakota
8/23/2001
16:03:17
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
The "brake" in brake horsepower only refers to the method originally used to determine it. It does not have to mean the engine's maximum horsepower at all - the 'brake horsepower' at the peak torque rpm is still 'brake horsepower' even though it is not the maximum the engine can produce. Usually we refer to an engine's horsepower as its peak power, but this can be very misleading and is not used alone by experienced engine tuners....even if the magazines are in love with it.
Not all dynos use water brakes anymore. The most common and accurate chassis dynos are the DynoJets, which are inertial dynos rather than brake dynos. They measure the time required to accelerate a heavy drum under the drive wheels, then use that information to calculate torque and horsepower. The term "brake" is still in use - hell, when was the last time anyone here drove a "one horsepower" horse, yet we still use the term horsepower in the US. In other countries they use a 'better' term - the kilowatt.
But regardless, power must be measured under load, otherwise the only power an engine produces is just enough to overcome internal power losses like friction and heat. This is what happens when you rev the engine in neutral - yet it is estimated that a Chevy V-8 uses 65 horsepower just to keep idling! Whoever told THEUFO1 that power is measured under 'no load' simply has no understanding of how engines work. I'd find a better source of information and ignore what that fellow tells you. :)
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lattimer
Dodge Dakota
8/23/2001
16:11:16
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
I forgot to mention the dyno jets and the acceleration drum. I was just trying to explain the term "Brake Horse Power", as there seems to be a lot of confusion around this. Same principle, different measurement method. I meant that the quoted BHP numbers are the peak numbers. Missed a word there in the previous post.
Exactly as Fluid said, these numbers are not all that meaningful. How often do you run at exactly 4800 RPM to get the peak power from your engine?
Shawn
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
8/23/2001
16:50:39
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
This is also why HP numbers are usually accompanied by an @RPM number... and with torque values @RPM number. A graph shows this well. You have to remember a HP number by itself doesn't mean anything. Horsepower is a derived number from torque, RPM and a fixed number. This is why a 150 HP crotch-rocket can make 150 HP... but can't outpull a 10 HP lawn tractor. It is ALL about torque and RPM. This is why maximum HP can be deceiving. If the maximum HP is achieved after the torque has peaked out and is falling (which is often the case) that HP is virtually useless... not always... but most of the time. It depends what you are doing. (I keep chomping at the bit to get into shift-points and racing... but that gets way off subject... and opends the issue up to misunderstanding.
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JRW
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/19/2003
18:11:18
| RE: V-6 Engines
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I HAVE A 96 DAKOTA 3.9 WITH 127.000 MILES DOES NOT USE ANY OIL AND RUNS STRONG HOWEVER I PLAN TO REBUILD ANOTHER ENGINE TO HAVE READY TO DROP IN WHO MAKES PERFORMANCE CAMS,ROLLER ROCKERS PISTIONS,HEADS,STROKER CRANKS,REAL HEADERS NOT THOSE SHORTYS,AND ANY OTHER SPEED PARTS.
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Daniel D
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/19/2003
23:11:36
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
actually the 92-93 magnum motors did have more hp, on those v6's i think it was around 180-185. 94 to current have 175.
Daniel D
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
1/20/2003
10:35:53
| RE: V-6 Engines
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Message:
the 92-93 did have 180-185 hp like daniel said. It came with better flowing exhaust manifolds and a full three inch exhaust from the factory. Mopar scrapped it because of complaints of it being "too loud".
Turbocharged V6
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