| From | Message |
Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
19:31:05
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 Subject: RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
IP: Logged
Message:
Seen a R/T do 1/4 in 12.99
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/chrtcubcab.JPG
heres one in the high 13s
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/tmsp116.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/tmsp116.jpg
This guy who ever he is has a awsome chart showing what every mod he put on his car dynoed and took of from his 1/4 Take a look at this.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/mods2.JPG
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
19:32:01
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Seen a R/T do 1/4 in 12.99
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/chrtcubcab.JPG
heres one in the high 13s
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/tmsp116.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/tmsp116.jpg
This guy who ever he is has a awsome chart showing what every mod he put on his car dynoed and took of from his 1/4 Take a look at this.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/2566/mods2.JPG
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
19:38:53
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Duner,
How come was your 1 pull the highest? Was your engine cool? Wow 233.1hp 313.0tq is nice.
Seem your other pulls did normal numbers of 210's in hp and 280's in tq.
I know with a K&N I'll get another 10hp plus another 10-15 with a better tb for a good 233hp and way more tq. Guess 323tq?
I notice your correction CF was only 1.05 mine was a 1.08 down! Arggg. But here's the kicker the weather was worse for me!
Yours: 94.6F 28.90 0.44 CF 1.05
Mine: 103.8F 28.64 0.69 CF 1.08
I need to weigh my truck at a grain factory :) Some big scale I can drive up onto!
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mark crisler
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
19:40:24
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
1st of all the r/t is a cool truck but it cost too much for the stickers vs what you can use the cash difference for. second of all no such thing as a qc r/t. the question was can a 4.7 smoke a r/t and point blank yes. dollar per dollar yes. and will i buy the next generation 5.7 yes. the 5.9 is dated and that is why a 285 ci engine can surprise a 360 ci. remember the bowtie 396 vs a 327. BUT no matter what trim at least our trucks come with a v8. but i'd still watch out for those d@#n v6 syclones.... lets go fight with the mustangs!!!
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
19:50:48
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Yeah, the red curve was with the engine stone cold. I lost 17 hp when the thing got hot! I've got a theory about why these Mopars slow down so much when they get hot, so the dyno chart was the first step in "curing" the disease.....I'll keep everybody posted.
Theoretically...... the correction factor is supposed to negate the differences in temps and barometric pressures. That would mean that my actual numbers should be divided by 1.05 to see what I actually got on that day with those conditions. You would need to divide yours by 1.08 to see yours. I have no idea how accurate the corrections are. I've heard that they overcorrect and that they sometimes undercorrect. The dyno numbers might be alot like timeslips from different tracks. Some may just produce better numbers than others. Of course the next question will always be whether the dyno that you or I use produces better or worse numbers than one that somebody else used. That's waayy too much for me to worry about! LOL
I have weighed my truck a number of times at different tracks and it is always between 4225 lbs and 4240 lbs. I generally go to the track with only about 1/4 tank of gas in it. Oh, and mine's a CC. That theory about the 4.7s being so much lighter than the 5.9s is pretty much out the window too. I think the main difference in their weights is the wheels! hahaha And I went and put a set of the "heavy" R/T wheels on my truck!
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BH-R/T
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
20:33:34
|  RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Alright Matt,what the f*ck is your problem,I dont do 15 sec runs as*wipe,14.43@95.62mph!Got it!Andf for your information,I am about to install a modified beer barrel intake manifold and a f&b t.b. and also doing a 2400 precision industries torque converter and shift kit,that will push my R/T 5.9 right into the high 13's,then its heads and cam,then vortech,so you can keep your 14.2,4.7,5 speed,all of it.And for "2000DAK4.7" you can eat my a$$ too,I am 25 years old with a wife,house,and brand new child,I have also been working on muscle cars for 9 years,mostly small block mopars,and I have a 1969 Dodge Coronet 440 in the garage that I did everything myself!Full resto and mods.So dont tell me that I dont know this sh!t,and I dont care about a 3.9 doing 11's,why would you,its not part of this debate,and the reason I am stoping at low 12's to high 11's is because I have to pass CA. emissions,and this is my daily driver,so mods are limited.There are plenty of R/T's going that fast,go to DAKOTART.COM and look around,click on the last show they went to,Duner was there,ask him about Big Bird,big cc R/T 12.05 in nasty weather,so piss off!I am so sick of this 4.7 vs 5.9 B.S.,who cares,why do 4.7 guys want to beat R/T's so badly,I have never seen a 5.9 guy start these debates,its always the 4.7's insecurity,me race a honda,no I beleive being stock in the 14's that is 4.7 territory,I will go after a Viper when I am done.If 4.7 guys are so sure how bad their trucks are,why even start sh!t like this,we should make a little section for the cocky 4.7 owners to go and dream about beating R/T's and stoking yourselves without interuption.And Matt,that info I gave you on the new 5.7 HEMI and GM,that came from the lips of a friend of mine named Steve Magnante technical editor for HOTROD magizine!Stick that in your hat and smoke it!if you ever come down to Southern cal,post it,I will be here ready to hand you your A$$!!!
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
21:17:45
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
first of all "smoke" is a pretty strong word, in my book it would mean beating another car in the 1/4 mile by at least a second. The 4.7 does not "smoke" a R/T. Another thing is even if the motors are only 15 HP different, they are 50 ft/lbs of torque different. HP sells cars but torque wins races. Lets just imagine that you had two motors with equal HP but one had 30% more torque, in the same truck which would be quicker? Even say you had two motors with equal torque and HP but one made the power 2000 rpm faster and had a flatter curve, which would win? The R/T makes the torque right now and holds it past the shift point. A stock R/T will run equal to a stock 4.7/ 5-speed/ 3.92 LS of equal cab, if you put the auto on the 4.7 it would be probably .3 sec slower. I love crusing the R/T, it is so smooth and effortless. One arm out the window, tunes cranked up, mash the gas, you don't have to hardly think and you can run the same every time. A 5-speed has to be run perfectly to equal the R/T's numbers. I would have loved a 5-speed 4.7 but I'm even happier with the R/T I ended up with. I could have saved $3000 but then I wouldn't have the 17" wheels, automatic, wheel flairs, lowered suspension, rear sway bar (the R/T handles sweet as well), cruise, tilt, and fog lights. By the time I added everything but the automatic I'd have been pretty close to the R/T's price for the same look, and more difficulty to extract the trucks power. I'd have loved long, smokey, powershifting burnouts with a five speed, but the floor it and go is kinda nice on saturday night as well. How hard could it be to buy a rolled 5-speed 318 dakota and put the parts on the R/T? Would there be a computer problem? Basically the R/T would be faster lined up against an equal automatic 4.7, the only reason a 4.7 can run with an R/T is that it gets the manual, and in the right hands, manuals are faster. Maybe a better comparison would be a 99 5.2/ 5-speed/ 3.92 LS to and equally prepared 2001 4.7, I bet it's a dead heat, or should I say dead horse!
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
21:29:41
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Yes the engines are only 15hp diffrent but were talking about racing now and the 15hp diffrence is for people that want there truck stock. In the racing world its all aftermarket and not one person that made a post here is running a totally stock truck. All im saying is that a 5.9 is easier to mod and the parts are cheaper then for the 4.7 even mopar has a book full of parts for it. The 5.9 is like the civic there de-tuned so you can tune them up and turn them in to a fire breathing machine. 4.7s can only dream. How dare you kick dirt in the face of one of the best dodge engines ever built.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
22:26:27
| Math is not equal to Emotion
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Message:
I had originally typed a nice long answer for each question that has been posed. But now, after re-reading most of the posts in this thread.....I just deleted it.
I have been talking about math (weights, ratios, horsepower, torque, efficiency, correction factors and times).
I have tried to explain why and how one truck would go quicker than the other, based upon know facts or suppositions.
Others have been talking about emotion (what they like, and why).
I've heard all about why someone might like one engine versus the other.
When it comes down to it..... math is not equal to emotion. People will believe whatever they want to and like whatever they want to, regardless of the actual facts involved. That's all good and fine......it's what religion is based upon.
The fact is that some 4.7s go quicker than some R/Ts. I tried to explain why. I tried to explain which do and which don't. I go to the track basically every week and have seen it to be true. Believe or don't believe it. Like whatever floats your boat. I like both engines so I don't have a problem talking about either one of them. I think the problem with this whole thread (other than it just being a re-hash of the standard 4.7 vs 5.9) is that it asks about "SMOKING" a R/T. To anyone who loves their R/T, that's inflammatory wording.
Keep on arguing and fighting the good fight..........it's just a soap opera anyway!
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
22:54:51
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Actually the 250 HP the R/T is rated at would be about 310 HP buy the pre 1972 gross standards, which makes the R/T 360 second only to the mighty 340 six pac as far as mopar small blocks go, not bad considering how mild the compression and cam are in the R/T 360. I do take something back on my previus post, It would be better to make power at a higher RPM then lower. The 5.9 is not at a great disadvantage because it's torque never falls below that of the 4.7 no matter where you look on the curve. So yes it would be better if the peak torque on the 5.9 occured at 3500 rpm like the 4.7 (vs 3000 RPM on the 5.9), but not if it were just going to fall off to a lesser number. The torque curve of the 4.7 will always fit under the 5.9 at any RPM. The only reason a 4.7 even feels close to the power of a R/T is the advantage of those low 1st gears on the 5-speed compared to what the auto gets. I can hardly imagine what 1st gear in a imaginary 5-speed R/T would feel like, with slicks and a high rpm launch it would break something for sure.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
23:02:16
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Dunar No offence but races and arguments aren't won by taking it easy. There won by people who expect more from there machine then whats on paper. This 4.7 vs. 5.9 could be looked at from many angles but right now were talking about racing and the quarter mile. Not about math and weight and stuff that a daily driver might be concerned about.
The fact is that there is no argument Forget stock! The fact is that a 5.9 shot a dakota down the quarter faster then any 4.7 ever did. The profe of this is on the websight i posted before.
As far as whats the better engine only time will tell for the BRAND NEW 4.7 using technology that chrysler only had problems with in the past when they made simular motors. But in all honesty i think the 4.7 is going to be a good motor and it is very strong but just because i own one doesnt mean im going to start saying im faster then other trucks which are in a higher class then us.
Marty
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
23:35:00
|  Time to Turn up the Heat!
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Message:
I'm not sure what you mean about the torque of the 4.7 always falling under the torque of the 5.9. I'm assuming you are talking about the stock torque numbers and stock engines. If that's the case than that is true.....at the flywheel. It may be a different story on the dyno. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing both of them on the same dyno at the same time to compare them. (stock)
The 4.7 most definately benefits from that low 1st gear that the NV3500 trans has. It surely helps get all 4225 lbs worth of my truck rolling off the line! I'm not sure about that being the only reason the 4.7 feels close to the R/T. Right now I'm producing more power (hp and torque) than most lightly modded R/Ts do. (233.1 hp and 313.0 torque at the rear wheels). I could be off by some, but that looks every bit like 275 hp and 370 ft-lbs of torque at the flywheel (if not slightly more). I have raced plenty of R/Ts from 75 mph to around 130. I didn't get to use the low 1st gear for those races and it did just fine. (Yes, I won) Obviously there plenty of R/Ts that would (and have) spanked my 4.7 either at the track or from a 75 mph punch. Here again, the 4.7 only starts with a 15 hp deficit. The 5-speed makes up the difference and get's it even in the rear wheel hp and torque department. The low 1st gear is what makes it jump ahead at the drag strip.
Marty, there's no disputing the fact that a 5.9 has gone considerably quicker than any 4.7 has to date. I was there.....it was awesome! How long do you think it will take until somebody invests as much time and effort into the 4.7? I absolutely love to race. Right now my truck has exactly the same equipment that my R/T had except for the engine and trans. It still isn't as quick as my R/T was, but it's getting pretty darned close! I'm not sure about the higher class truck part either. I'm not just saying the 4.7 should be faster.....I'm going to the track and racing! The timeslips tell the story, the proof is in black and white. I'm just trying to explain why. Only time will tell whether this engine is actually better or not. I have no idea of it's longevity. I'm enjoying it while I have it. The 5.9 already has a "recipe" to follow as far as mods go. I'm trying to write some "recipes" for the 4.7 for others to follow. Only time will tell whether the rotating assembly can handle what I've got in store for it in the future...... I'm gonna turn up the heat!
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
09:29:36
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Duner,
I don't think it's fair to say your have 233hp 313tq. You normal power while at operating temp was 210's and 280's with some mods.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
09:40:55
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
I belive him the 5.9 makes more power cold. In my durango when it was cold it would smoke the tires if it was operating temp it would just sqeale. I wonder why but i didnt have that 180 thermostate like everyone else has. But its weird.
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
09:48:35
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
I wasn't saying he didn't get 233hp 313tq. I was just adding the fact of, it's useless numbers if they can't be had at any time.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
14:30:48
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Good point.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
17:25:23
| Valid Point
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Message:
Anthony,
I can see where you are coming from, and it's a valid point. That full hp and torque level isn't available at all times.....yet. All of our modern Mopar engines suffer from the same ailment. They all slow down when they get hot. The reason for this isn't necessarily the operating temperature of the engine. It's our fuel systems. When our engines get hot, they also heat up the fuel rails. Fuel coming into the fuel rails gets super-heated as it passes thru it. The cylinders closest to the fuel source get good fuel. By the time the fuel get's to the #6 and #8 cylinders, it's all vapor. This causes an unbalanced engine which produces less horsepower. GM and Ford return the fuel to the tank so it can cool off.... they don't have this problem. I'm fixing the problem as well as improving it at the same time. Look for my hp and torque numbers to increase.....and be there all the time! hehehe
As far as my dyno sheet..... if it were yours, how much hp and torque would you say you had? The lower numbers are also with a full heat-soak. Both lower curves are with an engine temp of 210 degrees for full effect. These are just 3 of the 7 runs we made. There were runs in the 220 hp ranges at 300 ft-lbs torque also. They were just at what I would consider "normal" operating temps. I don't think I have ever raced my truck with a water temp of 210 when I left the line. Should I revise my numbers back to "normal" operating temps? I guess it's kind of like timeslips......when you go to the track, you talk about your "best" run...... not the mediocre ones in between.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
18:15:03
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Duner explain what GM and Ford do. They return fuel back to the tank but doesnt the fuel need to pass through the rails to get to 6 and 8 on a GM to.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
19:04:45
| Constant Motion
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Mar, with the GMs and Fords, the fuel is constantly moving thru the fuel rails and works more like a cooling system for the fuel rail. Since the fuel in the rail is constantly replaced with cooler fuel, it keeps the fuel rail cool. This fuel which is always moving, doesn't get the chance to sit and soak up that much heat. The differences in fuel temperature between injectors is minimized.
With ours, the fuel rail is basically a dead-end. The fuel comes into the fuel rail and is only replaced as it is burned. The injectors on the drivers side get a fresh supply of cooler fuel to work with. Cooler fuel is more dense and allows for proper metering thru the injectors. The only cooling the right side of the fuel rail sees is from however much fuel is burned on that side. The farther back the fuel rail you go, the hotter the fuel gets. Since the fuel gets super-heated, the last two cylinders only get vapor or fuel that is less-dense than the others. This means that they are actually dispensing less fuel at the same rpm as cylinders on the other side. That's where the unbalanced part comes from. That's what KILLS our performance when it gets hot.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
19:45:56
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
The dodges used to use that GM style feul delivery on the Magnum motors but this new system is supposed to be superior. I'm not sure why, but it seems like over time the GM system will just end up heating up the entire tank and suffer the same drop off, maybe this is not apparent at the dragstip with cooldown periods between runs.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/03/2001
20:12:15
| Why?
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I have no idea why Dodge changed their fuel delivery system....unless it was simpler and cheaper to produce. I can't see how it could ever help with efficiency.
I doubt that the short amount of time the fuel spends in the engine compartment on a Ford or GM could offset the temp much, considering it's exposed to ambient air the whole way back to the tank and then back to the fuel rails. Even if all of the fuel is heated up then all of the cylinders will get the same amount of fuel. That way, you would only see a minor slow-down at the track. I'm not just talking about at the track though. Normal everyday drivability suffers when the engine is hot and unbalanced. So does the fuel mileage. Have you ever noticed how "doggy" your truck feels when it gets hot? At the track, if you get a chance to let the engine (and fuel rails) cool down between runs, it helps the times quite a bit. If you keep running back-to-back runs, you notice that your times fall off. My plan is to cool the fuel rails down and try and keep everything balanced. It's fairly easy to cool them off at the track.....I want them cooled all the time!
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Alan
Dodge Dakota
8/04/2001
01:01:41
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Hey BH-RT,
When and where did you run your 14.43 @ 95.62mph? Thats a great time and an even better MPH. What was your 60' on that run? You have a CC right?
Later,
Alan
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aggie97
Dodge Dakota
8/04/2001
12:32:22
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Duner, you say you raced an R/T to 130mph? Don't those truck have a speed limiter at 115?!! Mine did....maybe that is why you won?
This thread started because everyone is "racing" their dakotas? Could you stop that truck at 130mph like a sports car.....NO. So please don't run up my ass when you can't stop your 4200# manslaughter missle. I know I am going to get flamed for this but what else is new.
Does anyone autocross their dakotas? I guess not as it is probably harder to get an R/T to handle well enough to compete with the vettes and stangs and such. Is there a separate TRUCK class that has been created? This would be interesting as you would not have to compete against true sports cars. I guess that is the only thing I appreciate with this thread is that it is about Dakotas vs. Dakotas.
Also, if the idea of modifying whatever engine you have is to go faster, why would you ever buy the 4.7? The 5.9 can be worked over to a 408ci that screams and with a blower, there is nothing in a truck that will touch it. 4.7's are still waiting on throttle bodies to be release and cold air intakes just recently hit the market.
As for waiting for the new 5.7L hemi, I doubt very seriously they will put it in the Dakota. If they do it will be in the R/T then the discussion will be over with. Good luck to all and have a good night.
P.S. my mustang resides on the trailer behind my 5.9L because I was afraid I would burn up the 4.7L while towing which needs more usable torque than the 4.7 can deliver. Sorry I just feel the 5.9 is an "OVERALL" stronger and proven motor.
Later
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Fluid
Dodge Dakota
8/04/2001
13:31:16
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Message:
Actually there are a number of R/T owners on the dakotart board who autocross their trucks - and win against the sportscars. As experienced autocrossers know, skill and the layout of the course have a lot to do with winning, and a course set up by a ponycar club can favor the R/T. I've run mine twice, but on a course designed for Hondas - it was tough to stay inside the cones with a CC! I have a lot of respect for the R/T drivers who do so well, and am jealous of the courses they get to run.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/04/2001
13:46:32
| We don't need no stinking "kits"
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Message:
Aggie97,
All of these "contests" happened on deserted stretches of hiway between Arizona and Topeka, Kansas. It was all hiway and only happened when we could see that the road was clear ahead. None of the "manslaughter missiles" were stock..... all had re-worked pcms without speed limiters. And no, it doesn't stop as well as a sports car, but the brakes are much better than the supposed "muscle-cars" of old. I've driven them, they're scary!
(that's a close to flaming as I want to come) hehehe
What part of the country are you in? There are a number of guys on the R/T list that autocross their trucks quite often. They compete with the cars and do quite well against them.
I didn't get the 4.7 with the idea of modifying it to go faster than the 5.9s. I got the 4.7 because I wanted a manual trans and my R/T was bought back because of the towing issue. I have towed with both platforms and there isn't that much difference. I'm sure a good part of that is the fact that the 4.7 has 5 gears available to it and the R/T only had 4 gears. I ended up with basically an R/T in the looks and handling department, and a 4.7 in the performance and fuel mileage department.
I guess the other question should be: If you can buy a truck with a 4.7 and it goes quicker and gets better fuel mileage than the 5.9 to start with.....why would you buy the 5.9? I keep hearing about these 408 stroker motors. Why would I want to spend $3,000 - $5,000 just to have an engine that would go as fast as a 4.7 with a $500 nitrous kit? They make superchargers for the 4.7s.... People have been hot-rodding engines for years. What do you have to say about a 3.9 6-cylinder Dakota that goes 11.60s? It's actually a 5.4 now....did anyone mention stroker? Just because there wasn't a "kit" doesn't mean it can't be done. I don't necessarily need to get all my performance out of some catalog that has the parts labeled as for the 4.7. I'm quite capable of "creating" my own "kits".
Who's waiting for throttle bodies to be released? What's wrong with doing it yourself? I wonder how much resistance there was to new engines when there was all kinds of aftermarket parts available for the flathead ford? (I know it's a stretch, but you get my point!) I'll bet the same kind of crap was thrown out about the lack of aftermarket parts. What will everyone say when there is aftermarket parts available? Right now, I'm about 6 to 8 tenths of a second quicker than the stock R/Ts without any of the "aftermarket" parts. Not bad for the supposedly "weak" engine.
If the 5.7 comes out in the Dakota, the discussions will still be going on. The same old crap about the lack of aftermarket stuff. And the old "I can make my 360 into a 408" story. There is always resistance to change. Everybody always tries to talk-up whatever it is they have. Me personally - I like the challenge. I kinda like the idea of making something work better than it did before. The other thing I like is proving it! Wanna go to the track?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
8/04/2001
13:47:17
| We don't need no stinking "kits"
IP: Logged
Message:
Aggie97,
All of these "contests" happened on deserted stretches of hiway between Arizona and Topeka, Kansas. It was all hiway and only happened when we could see that the road was clear ahead. None of the "manslaughter missiles" were stock..... all had re-worked pcms without speed limiters. And no, it doesn't stop as well as a sports car, but the brakes are much better than the supposed "muscle-cars" of old. I've driven them, they're scary!
(that's a close to flaming as I want to come) hehehe
What part of the country are you in? There are a number of guys on the R/T list that autocross their trucks quite often. They compete with the cars and do quite well against them.
I didn't get the 4.7 with the idea of modifying it to go faster than the 5.9s. I got the 4.7 because I wanted a manual trans and my R/T was bought back because of the towing issue. I have towed with both platforms and there isn't that much difference. I'm sure a good part of that is the fact that the 4.7 has 5 gears available to it and the R/T only had 4 gears. I ended up with basically an R/T in the looks and handling department, and a 4.7 in the performance and fuel mileage department.
I guess the other question should be: If you can buy a truck with a 4.7 and it goes quicker and gets better fuel mileage than the 5.9 to start with.....why would you buy the 5.9? I keep hearing about these 408 stroker motors. Why would I want to spend $3,000 - $5,000 just to have an engine that would go as fast as a 4.7 with a $500 nitrous kit? They make superchargers for the 4.7s.... People have been hot-rodding engines for years. What do you have to say about a 3.9 6-cylinder Dakota that goes 11.60s? It's actually a 5.4 now....did anyone mention stroker? Just because there wasn't a "kit" doesn't mean it can't be done. I don't necessarily need to get all my performance out of some catalog that has the parts labeled as for the 4.7. I'm quite capable of "creating" my own "kits".
Who's waiting for throttle bodies to be released? What's wrong with doing it yourself? I wonder how much resistance there was to new engines when there was all kinds of aftermarket parts available for the flathead ford? (I know it's a stretch, but you get my point!) I'll bet the same kind of crap was thrown out about the lack of aftermarket parts. What will everyone say when there is aftermarket parts available? Right now, I'm about 6 to 8 tenths of a second quicker than the stock R/Ts without any of the "aftermarket" parts. Not bad for the supposedly "weak" engine.
If the 5.7 comes out in the Dakota, the discussions will still be going on. The same old crap about the lack of aftermarket stuff. And the old "I can make my 360 into a 408" story. There is always resistance to change. Everybody always tries to talk-up whatever it is they have. Me personally - I like the challenge. I kinda like the idea of making something work better than it did before. The other thing I like is proving it! Wanna go to the track?
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BH-R/T
Dodge Dakota
8/04/2001
15:44:15
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Hey Alan,you ask as if you either dont beleive me or you know me,this wouldnt happen to be Alan Short would it?Any way,I was at Carlsbad Raceway in San Diego Ca. on July 15th late in the afternoon,I also un capped my cutout for the first time and borrowed my friends hoosier quicktimes,60ft was 2.128 and my reaction time was .661 and I launched the truck at 1300 rpm and gradually mashed the peddle down over about 20 ft.And yes I have a club cab.What do you drive.Do I know you?
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Alan
Dodge Dakota
8/05/2001
02:06:17
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Hi BH-RT,
No I am not Alan Short.. who's that? Anyway I just have a 98 CC 4x4 with a 5.2. Considering upgrading to a QC with either a 5.9 or a 4.7, so I have read these threads with interest.
Nice time and 60'. I do have a question though... on 7/9 in one of the other 4.7 vs 5.9 threads (lol) you said "Guess what I just went to Carlsbad raceway on Sat, and my 4241 lbs club cab beast R/T went 14.31 @ 94.91 mph with a 2.21 60 foot on the radials" So you actually went quicker on street tires? Different track prep or something? I would be claming that 14.31 as my best time not the 14.4... lol
Anyway, great ETs.
Alan
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BH-R/T
Dodge Dakota
8/05/2001
05:28:37
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Well about the 14.3,it was done on the street with a G-Tech a few days before I went to the track,I got impatiant and needed to get a documented time so I could continue the battle with Jeffster if I remember correctly,so I went to a flat straight road about 10 miles from house and ran my R/T,the 60' time is from my best run before this one of 14.66 so I said I was at the track to get him off my ass even though he had never even been on a race track before,but now that I actually went,(but its not my first time with the truck,been 4 times so far with this new toy)I post that time because it is more accurate and on paper.Things just tend to get out of hand on these forums sometimes,especially on this debate.I have never said the 4.7 was slow or a peice of poop,I am just saying in my opinion the 5.9 is and always will be better.Alan Short is I guy that I know thats in the Dakota RT Registry.About you upgrading to a QC,it all depends on what you want the truck for,a truck?towing?daily driver?hotrod?If you want decent gas mileage and not a hotrod thing,get the 4.7,if you want to go fast and and do alot of mods then the 5.9 is the way to go,towing also,just not in an R/T,I dont know why anyone would tow with an R/T anyway,its not really a truck,its a car with a really big trunk,anyway thanks for being civil Alan,let me know if you want anymore info ok.Thanks
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littleredrt
Dodge Dakota
10/20/2001
15:45:44
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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One other aspect of the R/T that hasn't been discussed. Re-sale value. The R/T will resell for far more than an equally equipped 4.7 dakota. When you consider that it is also a fairly limited production vehicle, it will command better prices in the far future as well. Can you say Little Red Express Truck. I have one with 26K miles on it and back in the early 80s when I bought it for 4,600 bucks, the owner thought it was just a truck. I know that todays R/Ts are not the same but they are more distinctive than a 4.7 with R/T trim. The R/T is to the dakota as the Lightning is to the F-series. All others are just dakotas.
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RedDak
Dodge Dakota
10/21/2001
22:04:58
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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O GOD...please lets not dig up this post again to come and haunt me!
Jonas
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RTjohn
Dodge Dakota
10/21/2001
22:56:43
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Can we please just give it up already, I really don't care.
RTjohn
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Mark Crisler
Dodge Dakota
10/22/2001
00:40:22
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Well the final vote is in.... At the Truckin' Nationals the quickest dakota was either a nitros 5.9 R/T or a turboed 4.7 and both can bust out of the 13's. So let it die as a tie!!!!
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
10/22/2001
01:52:21
| BS-R/T take a pill
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Calm down and take a chill pill. I was reading some of your posts and you seem way to high your R/T. It's just a mini truck with a big work truck engine.
>I got impatiant and needed to get a documented time so I could continue the battle with Jeffster if I remember correctly<
Leave me out of your personal problems. Your are the one calling 4.7 owners insecure. LOL Only you would think that a 4.7 5 speed beating an R/T is a battle. Chill out and enjoy your truck for what it is.
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jeffster
Dodge Dakota
10/22/2001
01:56:50
| RE: 4.7 to SMOKE an R/T???
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Ignore my last post. I just noticed BH-RT made that last post a couple months ago. Lets let this thread die both truck are good and bothe are fast.
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