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Dakota Performance
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/06/2007
21:49:53
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 Subject: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Anyone buy a Superchips 3715 for less than $379 recently?
I recently bought an 01 Durango 4.7 4x4, and compared to my 03 QC Dak 4.7, it's a real pig. I think it's been death-flashed since it doesn't have the pep and towing power of the 03 Dak. The Dak will haul arse around someone while passing, but the Durango doesn't seem to have the power to get out of it's own way. Both vehicles are the same except the Durango is a 4x4 and about 500# heavier, not enough of a difference for the lack in performance.
I've already done a bunch of preventative maintenance, Mobil-1 in engine and diff's, spark plugs, air filter, few tanks of fuel with injector cleaner, TPS mod, ATF flush - filters and Transgo shift kit, reset PCM. I didn't find anything bad, but it still runs sluggish. I'm looking at the TPS and o2 sensors becuase of an intermittant poor idle, but don't think they are the problem since my other 4.7 Dak's had poor idle at times because of dirty injectors.
I'm considering the HO cams, but doubt they will improve the power much if the PCM has been death-flashed, so I'm looking to do the Superchips first.
Any suggestions?
modain, I notice you have a 4.7 Dak and Durango, how do they compare in performance?
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modain
GenIII
 
8/07/2007
01:05:47
|  RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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To be honest they are two different animals. The Dakota has better gearing (3.92 axle) than the Durango does (3.55 axle). That right there is enough to differentiate their performance. The Durango is heavier, so that along with the gears puts it at a disadvantage.
Both engines are stock with the exception of the K&N drop-in filter and the Superchips tuner. I have been running the 91 octane towing program on my Dakota for pretty much ever since I bought the tuner. I just bumped the Durango to the same program (for a while).
Even when running stock or the SC87 program (which it usually is running) the Durango's engine has great pep for an auto tranny. There doesn't seem to be much perceptable power difference between stock and SC87 programs, but the tranny shifts better and later at WOT. I use it primarily for the tire size correction so my speedo/odo is right on.
One day I'll get off my wallet and change out the Durango's axle gears (which I already have). Then they'll be pretty much on equal footing. I expect the two to be similar in (straight line) excitement. The Dakota handles much better in the turns.
And when I get brave enough I'll put my HO cams (which I already have) into my Dakota, then it'll have an unfair advantage. :-)
As for your suggestions: the SC is a good move. (I notice a good power boost when towing.) Then you'll get the most from the HO cam swap. I think a bigger (Fastman) TB would be the next move.
What's your left foot doing?
==============
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, R/T rear swaybar, no chrome, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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check ebay
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2007
08:41:34
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Check ebay for cheaper Superchips programmers, other dodge sites, you can usually find them for $250 used.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2007
09:49:43
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Thanks for the input modain,
I just saw your Dak has a std. tranny and 3.92 gears opposed to your Durango's auto and 3.55 gears, sure sounds like the Dak would have better performance. My Dak and Durango are equally matched for options auto tranny and 3.55 gears, but the Durango is slower and sluggish, too slow and sluggish.
I ordered a set of HO cams and looking for a deal on a Superchips so I have something to play with over the next few weeks. I'm also adding a magnaflow muffler and CIA which I don't think will add too much, but hoping for 30 HP/TQ over the whole envdeavor, we'll see...
check eaby, I'm a bit leary of picking up a used or Ebay 3715 microtuner since Superchips won't warranty thier units unless you buy it from an authorized dealer. I've seen them go for $270-280 on Ebay, but not sure it's worth the risk of getting a bad unit or having warranty problems in the future.
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Shoe
GenIII
8/07/2007
12:15:06
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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If you want performance then do not get the HO cams. If you are wanting something to wake up your vehicle, get some 206 cams from KRC or maybe a 212 or 212x. Check them out... www.krcperformance.com
Finally... a V8. '01 Dodge Dakota RC, 4.7, 5-speed, 3.92 LSD. = R/T Killer.
well at least a stock one
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modain
GenIII
8/07/2007
17:28:33
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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The problem with 206 cams (to my understanding) is they should be installed with new lash caps and springs. This will jack the price up. I have read some guys have gotten away with using the original ones, but it's just something to know.
Additionally, I have not gotten a good answer to whether or not the 206 cams would pass a smog test. If that's important to know before digging into it the HO/200 cams would be the "best" option. Either way, the upgraded cams will give a bit more grunt than the stock ones.
Also keep in mind, the more aggressive the cam, the peak power output gets moved farther up the RPM band. If you are interested in racing this is good, if you want to tow it would be better to keep the peak output nearer where it is now. Going beyond 206 cams would push the power out of the usable towing range.
What's your left foot doing?
==============
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, R/T rear swaybar, no chrome, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2007
23:29:13
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Yeah, I would almost bet the 206 cams would be way too aggressive for towing, poor low end with all the new found power at the top end.
It looks like the HO cams have been superseded a 2nd time as the ones I bought for $101 jumped to $110 after a call from the dealer, hope I didn't get the bait and switch. Since they superceeded the cams I wonder if Dodge change the profile, and if they did, if it was for better power or (I shouldn't say it) emissions.
Maybe they are the 206's, LOL
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Shoe
GenIII
8/08/2007
12:28:19
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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When you buy them from KRC they come with new lash caps and springs. The KRC cams are based upon the HO grind. KRC used to sell a 200, that was the HO cam. The 206 has remarkable torque and the 212X has the same torque, but with more top-end horsepower gains. If you are worried about losing some low-end then get some lower gears.
Finally... a V8. '01 Dodge Dakota RC, 4.7, 5-speed, 3.92 LSD. = R/T Killer.
well at least a stock one
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2007
02:29:21
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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I can see $216 for the HO cams, but $750 for a set of KRC cams seems a bit steep, not a good bang for the buck, though they probably make nice power.
Gears are also out of the picture since I'm not digging into the diffs, it would cost $1500 to replace the gears in my 4x4.
With the HO cams, Superchips, Magnaflow muffler and CIA, I'm into it about $700 and probably see better results than just the KRC cams alone. Especially since I'm pretty sure the PCM has been death-flashed. Not going to do much good to unless the PCM is optimized.
Either way, thanks for the input, Dan
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Shoe
GenIII
8/09/2007
02:47:15
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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They may seem high because of the fact that they are the only ones doing it. They know what they are doing. 40 horsepower gains seems pretty good to me. What every makes you happy though.
Finally... a V8. '01 Dodge Dakota RC, 4.7, 5-speed, 3.92 LSD. = R/T Killer.
well at least a stock one
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Shoe
GenIII
8/09/2007
02:52:41
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Also, either way would not HO cams hurt low-end. I have always heard that the HO motors had a better top end. With that in mind... if you want great low-end just get some gears.
Finally... a V8. '01 Dodge Dakota RC, 4.7, 5-speed, 3.92 LSD. = R/T Killer.
well at least a stock one
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2007
03:22:26
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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40 HP is pretty respectable, but I'm looking to address several issues with the cash I'm dropping, PCM, cams, intake, exhaust. Going the cheap, but effective route. Custom Flash, KRC cams, HO manifold, aftermarket CIA, headers and dual exhaust would certainly net better results, but the price would be much higher, $2500+ compared to the $700 I'm planning to spend. Then another $1500 for gears, it adds up quickly.
From what I have heard (not experienced) the HO cams add HP and torque across the entire RPM range, but the HO intake manifold will move the powerband up about 300RPM. I'm keeping the stock 01 intake manifold which is better for low-end than the HO intake. The 04 HO intakes are pretty cheap, about $90, so if you don't mind moving up in the power band it might be a good decision.
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Shoe
GenIII
8/09/2007
10:56:40
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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All I know is that my friend has a set of 212s, headers, throttle body, gears (4.10), and a flash it it is crazy to drive. It has so much low-end power that it is not even funny. But like I said, whatever makes you happy then go for it.
Finally... a V8. '01 Dodge Dakota RC, 4.7, 5-speed, 3.92 LSD. = R/T Killer.
well at least a stock one
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/09/2007
17:20:54
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Yup, HO cams didn't seem to hurt low end at all on mine; supposed to give you most of the torque gain of the whole HO package. Superchips or flash is a great suggestion. I went with a custom flash, more ignition advance really wakes up a 4.7. I don't think there is an '04 HO manifold though; pretty sure '04 was a compromise design that was used on the regular 4.7 as well as the HO 4.7. I kept my original '00 intake manifold as I wanted to keep the torque down low; there is an earlier HO manifold that is a true HO design - and then the later compromise design - that many mistakenly refer to as an HO manifold.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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miltonwaddums
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2007
17:49:02
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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The new tuners on Ebay are listed at 380 or such, but when I bought mine, they offered an instant $100 rebate. The reason for this was probably due to Superchips minimum pricing for dealers. Make sure you buy one from an authorized dealer though.
I'm currently looking for some HO cams. Anyone got some for sale?
Jay
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modain
GenIII
8/11/2007
18:18:37
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Here is a spreadsheet showing the numbers comparison of what the Stock, HO, 206, and 212 cams put out.
http://zydeco.easydns.us/jt/mod/fileman/files/4.7L_Cams.xls
The numbers might not be completely accurate and authoritative, but it appears the HO cams put out the highest peak TQ and at a lower RPM. This is good for towing. The 212s maintain more TQ output at higher RPMs than the others do - that's why they are better for top end applications (racing).
The more TQ you can have higher up the RPM band calculates into more HP. This is what advertisers capitalize upon.
What's your left foot doing?
==============
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, R/T rear swaybar, no chrome, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2007
19:18:34
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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Right you are about the 04 manifold Kowalski, it's the compromise design
I picked up a new Superchips off Ebay for $315, but from a non-authorized dealer, hope I don't have problems. I didn't see any of the sellers offering a $100 rebate or anything less than $379 from an authorized dealer.
That 4.7 cam spreadsheet is pretty interesting and what I would have suspected, good to see I got the right cams for towing. I ordered the HO cams from oemdodgeparts.com, $216 shipped, but I think they are $10/cam higher now. If you order from them, look for a 5% off coupon code on their front page, I think the code was "NEW".
Now what really $ucks is all the parts have arrived, but sitting at the UPS depot. Won't have them until Monday...
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2007
01:33:24
| RE: Cheapest Superchips, modain
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All I have to say is WOW, what a night and day difference.
The stock air hat was replaced with an ABS elbow last night,,, "might" have noticed some more power at the top end. Tonight the beat-up stock muffler was replaced with a Magnaflow, then I reprogrammed with the Superchips 91 octane performance program. Throttle response is awsome, pulls harder after shifting, maintains cruise speed more consistently and the overhead console says it's getting better mileage.
All that improvement and I still have the HO cams to install...
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