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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
12/14/2006
22:37:47
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 Subject: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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OK I lost the post I started a few days ago so here goes again.
I wanted to see what a SHORT runner intake manifold would run like on the 4.7
So I took my EXTRA manifold from the 2000 engine I have to rebuild and hacked the crap out of it. Changed the 16" or so long runners to about 3" runners!
It had a small air leak I missed when I hacked the thing back together after dissecting it into 4 pieces... but it was good enough to drive.
The damn thing now picks up power at 4k, and revs PAST where it started dropping off before at 6200 RPM's and now hits 7k when I shift it manually!
The HTML appears to be disabled due to the a-hole spammers!
Go here to check out my pictures and videos as of tonight.
http://www.paysonarizona.net/MyProjects/ProjectDak/Project_Dakota_IntakeMod_01.htm
or
http://www.paysonarizona.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1166153038/0#0
Copy and paste!
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/14/2006
23:58:46
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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How is your bottom end (3K and under) doing with the short runner design? Did it kill all of your torque or is this motor big enough to keep some of its lower powerband.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/15/2006
09:18:35
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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I would expect it to have lost some. Maybe.
When we first drove it away from the house, it did seem to not have the JERK it has every time you touch the throttle form near a dead stop.
However, I also had the battery disconnected during the change out and the PCM had to relearn.
After we drove it for a few minutes I stopped on a long empty street and power braked it. It had no problem spinning the both tires easily at the 2,000 stall RPM and once it hit 3k I let off the brakes and it reved over 6l spinning both tires which is something it hadn't done before.
In that 3rd video of mine, I spun the tires most of that time.
If the leak is fixed by tonite, I may go to Speedworld if they have the track done by then and see if it picks up any time.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/15/2006
15:58:58
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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How did you get the oil dipstick tube out of the way when you swapped intakes?
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/15/2006
16:25:59
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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Well, that intake gave me some fits but got it off in about an hour. My bro in law helped me sneak it off. I just bent the fuel rail forward a little in the front and bent the oil tube slightly and we snuck it out. Had to take the coolant crossover lines loose too.
I left the fuel injector rail IN PLACE :)
I'll get some more pix later and a better video when I take the real video camera out with us. I just wanted to see if it gained upper RPM power. I didn't know it would rev to 7k until that happened!
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2006
16:33:33
|  RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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I remember the 4.7L I had really sounded great while doing some Hi rev-in. Ever had the transmission in third gear and then you sought of push the peddle about 3/4 way down? I remember I passed some guy fishing while doing that. He got up to probably look for some sports car (if not full-size truck) and instead he seen a Dakota!
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/15/2006
20:22:08
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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It always had some revs in it. Stock it hit 6k easy but power dropped.
With the SuperChips I didn't hit the rev limiter anymore but power still dropped right after 6k.
Now it's dropping just before 7k.
The air still has to change directions where I cut the plastic runners open.
I am sure if I made a smoother intake with short runners from the main intake body it would flow even better.
I drove it to the bank afterwork a few hours ago. I still have one more intake leak I missed and have been plugging them with RTV LOL! There were a few air pockets under the fiberglass I missed. Anyway, it wasn't as big of a leak and I got another video of it with the GOOD video camera. This is a 1.4 Meg Real Player video which is better than the CameraPhone videos I made last night.
Copy and Paste---> http://www.paysonarizona.net/Home%20Videos/DakotaVids/Video_Dak_121506_TestingHackedIntake_01.rm
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2006
21:25:07
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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YEAH!!!!!!!
Dude there is an intake manifold on e-bay if you want another one. Hell I might want to try it.
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Kota Kid
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2006
23:19:45
|  RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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How are you getting your truck to 7k? I have a 02 4.7L auto with a super chips tuner and mine shifts at 5500-5600.
Also just a word of caution have a friend that works at a jeep dealer just up the street and he has told me before that they have seen a couple of grand cherokee 4.7L's that have been over revved and have "relocated" some of their cam followers.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/15/2006
23:58:53
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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Kota Kid, mine still shifts where yours does when left in auto. I am shifting it manually from 1st then to 2nd at that point. Kinda tricky when you are holding the camera as well!!!!
1HOTKADOTA, dude I may go to Speedworld tomorrow. They just reopened it after tearing it up and remodeling it!
http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/schedule.htm
Not sure when. My bro in law wants to go tomorrow night. I have some family coming over until the evening so I wouldn't get out there until after 7 or 8 I think. Unless we get the family over to the house earlier.
Let me know and I'll check every so often.
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/16/2006
01:17:47
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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I cant imagine you not picking up some time. My worst problem is launching even with my scorpion zeros. So as long as you didnt completly destroy your lower powerband then that extra hp is gonna show up pretty easily in the quarter. Those RPMs do make me wonder about your valve train though. It may be starting to float or very close to it. Might not be terrible for you but a wet nitrous kit and valve float = Flying plastic shrapnel or worse.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/16/2006
11:35:39
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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LOL no Nitrous for me!
Luckily I haven't heard the valves float. And I've had them float on vehicles before. In fact, My ATV does it all the time because once it gets into the power it makes power past it's redline now. It needs aftermarket springs badly. (It also has a small Turbo I'm still trying to dial in on it's little 350cc engine).
I think I will probably shift the Dak at about 6600 or so if I test it down the track. That should put me above 4k starting in 2nd where the power seems to already be good now.
I'm about to go to Speedworld with a friend and if it is running ok I many make a few runs.
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/18/2006
16:47:10
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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Well keep us posted on your experiment. I would have loved to see some dyno charts on this but I image a time slip will tell us most of the info.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/20/2006
19:50:06
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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Hmm.. I thought I replied to this earlier on my phone. It must have messed up.
Anyway. my 1/4 mile time the other night was the same no better.
the 1/8 miles seemed quicker tho, WTF?
When I do loose a close race, I always seem to be ahead to the 1/8 and then loose at the very end. I think being a 4WD it startes to drag more with speed.
I raced a slightly lifted 2WD Chevy 6.0 and had it from a dead stop past the 1/8 and then he pulled me in the end by .7 or so damn it!
It obviously breaths better at the high end or it wouldn't rev that much higher so easily. But I am sure the air flow in itself, isn't nearly as smooth as a custom intake with direct runners.
It may even have a dead spot for all I know now.
But from a dead stop it still sure as sh*t rips the tires. Especially after the PCM has learned more. Last night it ripped the tires from a dead stop without power braking. I have to let off to gain traction.
For all I know I raced it too quickly after resetting the PCM.
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/20/2006
22:49:33
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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That makes no sense for you to do better in the 1/8 and the same in the quarter, especially when going to shorter runners. Makes me wonder if dodge didnt bother to make good fuel/spark maps that high up. They could have just thrown some guestimates in there because they never figured it would rev that high. I have seen other automakers do that plenty of times. They have no love for people who mod their cars.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/21/2006
12:50:25
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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"They have no love for people who mod their cars."
LOL that is funny, and probably TRUE!
Well, give me a few more years and I hope to be able to makse some of my engine controls. Maybe not on my Dak because of OBD-II emissions, but on stuff like my Duster using EFI.
I've learned a lot fabricating EFI on my ATV and of course have a lot more to learn still. I do have that thing running though.
One thing about the Dak is I noticed it didn't have that jump from a dead stop when I first test drove it. It got BETTER by time I got it to the track the next morning. But I think it is even better now after a few more drives. Last night it was very responsive.
Now I really think I may have ran it down the track too soon after putting it together. I had the battery disconnected so I knew the PCM needed to relearn especially with the intake change. The tables could be adjusted a little better now!
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fyi
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/21/2006
13:36:57
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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GraphiteDak "Now I really think I may have ran it down the track too soon after putting it together. I had the battery disconnected so I knew the PCM needed to relearn especially with the intake change
According to the FSM when running with Wide Open Throttle Mode, the computer is in the Open Loop mode and does not need to learn the new intake.
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fyi
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/21/2006
13:54:37
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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Forgot the excerpt from the manual.
WIDE OPEN THROTTLE MODE
This is an Open Loop mode.
During wide open
throttle operation, the PCM receives the following
inputs.
Battery voltage
Crankshaft position sensor
Engine coolant temperature sensor
Intake manifold air temperature sensor
Manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor
Throttle position sensor (TPS)
Camshaft position sensor signal (in the distributor)
During wide open throttle conditions, the following
occurs:
Voltage is applied to the fuel injectors with the
ASD relay via the PCM. The PCM will then control
the injection sequence and injector pulse width by
turning the ground circuit to each individual injector
on and off.
The PCM ignores the oxygen sensor input
signal and provides a predetermined amount of additional
fuel. This is done by adjusting injector pulse
width.
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/21/2006
15:32:02
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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My Firebird does the same thing. When your in WOT it ignores the O2 sensor because the O2 sensor only reads acurately around 14.7 A/F + or - 1. At WOT it needs to be in the mid to upper 12s A/F. It is possible that it builds a stoich table using the O2 sensor and then adds some kind of enrichment table for WOT, But I may be giving dodge to much credit. I wonder how well the guys at KRC have hacked the PCM.
If anybody at KRC sees this please fill us in a bit.
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fyi
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/21/2006
16:01:56
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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Good point about the building a table 4.7onN20, but I doubt it. I suspect that the tables that are built ‘learn mode’ are used for the Closed Loop mode only. As you said, hacking the program may be the only way to get more fuel in the open loop mode (WOT).
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clint282cc
Dodge Dakota
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12/21/2006
18:47:48
| RE: The 4.7 is now reving to 7k!
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technical sh1t man. lol
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